Any green mango varieties that can be maintained as small trees?

[sunworshiper]

I'm zone pushing so I can grow only mango varieties that can be kept small (e.g Pickering). After a trip to Thailand last year I'm interested in growing a mango variety for green eating. I like the ones that are sweet and crunchy when green rather than tart. Are any of those possible to maintain productive so the tree remains at less than 8'?

[zands]

I'm zone pushing so I can grow only mango varieties that can be kept small (e.g Pickering). After a trip to Thailand last year I'm interested in growing a mango variety for green eating. I like the ones that are sweet and crunchy when green rather than tart. Are any of those possible to maintain productive so the tree remains at less than 8'?

I just had a green sweet tart mango. I would call it sweet and acidy not sweet and sour. It was 50% as sweet as a ripe ST mango. Hot sauce made it taste better or more unusual. I never put hot sauce on a mango before. It was not crunchy like a hard apple. It was firm.

[sunworshiper]

I got to taste a ripe sweet tart last year and it was amazing! If they taste good both green and ripe that would be nice to have the choice. I thought sweet tart was a big tree though - can it be maintained as a small tree?

[zands]

I got to taste a ripe sweet tart last year and it was amazing! If they taste good both green and ripe that would be nice to have the choice. I thought sweet tart was a big tree though - can it be maintained as a small tree?

Mine is maintained at 12 feet due to HOA though I know that others call ST vigorous. I tip pruned it a lot.
Since ST is one of the new (lulz 2011) high brix Zill mangoes I would think other new Zill enhanced sweetness mangoes will be as good green. Ones that others also consider and confirm as "manageable", not just me. Honey Kiss, Edgar and so on.

Plus I can send you ST scions to graft on to whatever you buy. Anyone interested in ST scions can PM me.

[skhan]

I look into Bram Kea Mun (butchered that spelling), Keo Savoy and good old Nam Doc Mai 4.
I believe they are all on the lower vigor side of things.
Not as small as Pickering though

[sunworshiper]

12' for the sweet tart is probably too big for me to consider. Since I'm in 9b and have to frost protect in winter, anything over 8' doesn't tend to make it through the winter. I am actually planning to add Honey Kiss as I've heard it can be maintained small. Anyone got comments on what they taste like mature green?

The nice compact mango tree list here http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0 does have Edgar on it as well. Anyone know how they taste mature green?

skhan, thanks for the reminder about Nam Doc Mai 4! That might be a good choice for me. Are the Bram Kea Mun and Keo Savoy similar in tree size to Nam Doc Mai 4? How would you describe their flavor differences? So hard to know what variety I experienced in Thailand that I liked so much!

[fisherking73]

I got to taste a ripe sweet tart last year and it was amazing! If they taste good both green and ripe that would be nice to have the choice. I thought sweet tart was a big tree though - can it be maintained as a small tree?

Mine is maintained at 12 feet due to HOA though I know that others call ST vigorous. I tip pruned it a lot.
Since ST is one of the new (lulz 2011) high brix Zill mangoes I would think other new Zill enhanced sweetness mangoes will be as good green. Ones that others also consider and confirm as "manageable", not just me. Honey Kiss, Edgar and so on.

Plus I can send you ST scions to graft on to whatever you buy. Anyone interested in ST scions can PM me.

How much tipping are you doing? I have an LZ and coconut cream I am debating on trying to keep as small as possible with a heavy prune yearly, even if it means a little less production, as long as I am getting 20-30 mangoes per tree more than enough for us.

[skhan]

12' for the sweet tart is probably too big for me to consider. Since I'm in 9b and have to frost protect in winter, anything over 8' doesn't tend to make it through the winter. I am actually planning to add Honey Kiss as I've heard it can be maintained small. Anyone got comments on what they taste like mature green?

The nice compact mango tree list here http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0 does have Edgar on it as well. Anyone know how they taste mature green?

skhan, thanks for the reminder about Nam Doc Mai 4! That might be a good choice for me. Are the Bram Kea Mun and Keo Savoy similar in tree size to Nam Doc Mai 4? How would you describe their flavor differences? So hard to know what variety I experienced in Thailand that I liked so much!

I've had bkm ripe it taste pretty similar to ndm.
I never had Keo Savoy though.
I don't grow either, but from what I understand they are all similar enough that I'm going to graft them on my ndm tree.
Whenever I get some budwood that is.

[zands]

How much tipping are you doing? I have an LZ and coconut cream I am debating on trying to keep as small as possible with a heavy prune yearly, even if it means a little less production, as long as I am getting 20-30 mangoes per tree more than enough for us.

ST mango tree gets tip pruning every year. One or two times yearly. Also depends on how much fruit is on the tree

[FRUITBOXHERO]

12' for the sweet tart is probably too big for me to consider. Since I'm in 9b and have to frost protect in winter, anything over 8' doesn't tend to make it through the winter. I am actually planning to add Honey Kiss as I've heard it can be maintained small. Anyone got comments on what they taste like mature green?

The nice compact mango tree list here http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0 does have Edgar on it as well. Anyone know how they taste mature green?

skhan, thanks for the reminder about Nam Doc Mai 4! That might be a good choice for me. Are the Bram Kea Mun and Keo Savoy similar in tree size to Nam Doc Mai 4? How would you describe their flavor differences? So hard to know what variety I experienced in Thailand that I liked so much!

Not sure how they taste green but ripe they are amazing! tree can be kept around 8-feet with proper pruning. and a somewhat slow grower...trust me you wont be disappointed

[sunworshiper]

I think I'm less decided than ever! Thanks skhan for the info on flavor!

Joe thanks for the info on being able to maintain sweet tart at 8' - that makes it a tempting one. How would you compare the vigor and grow habit to Maha Chanok? I am growing it and it's internode length is a lot longer than my other mango varieties, but it's slower rate of growth so far is allowing it to be manageable for me.

[Cookie Monster]

In my opinion, NDM is an excellent mango eaten mature green. It has tart, but it also has enough brix to balance it out (when eaten at the right stage). It's like a sweet granny smith apple, if there were such a thing.

The NDM #4 can sometimes be very dwarf... which can be a problem for those who don't fertilize. I've literally seen NDM #4 trees die after 6+ years of not growing. And, I've seen NDM #4 trees well over 10 years in ground that barely stand 8 feet tall, with zero pruning. However, some NDM #4 trees do grow just as vigorously as the other NDM's (if memory serves, Zands has an NDM #4 that grew quite bit).

My guess is that there is some rootstock influence that causes the NDM #4 dwarfism. So it's a bit of a roll of the dice, but if you get the dwarfed NDM #4, those things stay tiny.

Splitting is an issue with NDM #4 though...

[sunworshiper]

Jeff, thanks for the great info on NDM. I'm intrigued by the rootstock having so much influence. I don't have room for any new trees, so I'll be top working my Cogshall, which was itself a grafted tree. Wonder what kind of result I'd get if I grafted NDM #4 onto that in terms of tree size? Is the splitting caused by too much water? The spot where the tree I'll be grafting lives is next to the eaves on my house, so it gets a ton of water dumped on it when it rains. How have you found the growth habits for the other green eating mangos to be?

[Cookie Monster]

If you're worried about splitting, you could topwork to one of the other NDM clones. Not sure if you will get a dwarf NDM4 by topworking to a cogshall; probably a roll of the dice.

Jeff, thanks for the great info on NDM. I'm intrigued by the rootstock having so much influence. I don't have room for any new trees, so I'll be top working my Cogshall, which was itself a grafted tree. Wonder what kind of result I'd get if I grafted NDM #4 onto that in terms of tree size? Is the splitting caused by too much water? The spot where the tree I'll be grafting lives is next to the eaves on my house, so it gets a ton of water dumped on it when it rains. How have you found the growth habits for the other green eating mangos to be?

[sunworshiper]

The cogshall is the only one that I have that is a candidate for topworking. Not already growing NDM, and I am out of space to add another tree. Ah but I can dream about space for more trees!

[Tiberivs]

In my opinion, NDM is an excellent mango eaten mature green. It has tart, but it also has enough brix to balance it out (when eaten at the right stage). It's like a sweet granny smith apple, if there were such a thing.

The NDM #4 can sometimes be very dwarf... which can be a problem for those who don't fertilize. I've literally seen NDM #4 trees die after 6+ years of not growing. And, I've seen NDM #4 trees well over 10 years in ground that barely stand 8 feet tall, with zero pruning. However, some NDM #4 trees do grow just as vigorously as the other NDM's (if memory serves, Zands has an NDM #4 that grew quite bit).

My guess is that there is some rootstock influence that causes the NDM #4 dwarfism. So it's a bit of a roll of the dice, but if you get the dwarfed NDM #4, those things stay tiny.

Splitting is an issue with NDM #4 though...

If I sourced a ndm from zill nursery what kind of ndm would it be?

[MangoCountry]

Most likely Ndm #4. Thats what mine was and that's all ive seen for sale from them the last few years

[Cookie Monster]

Zills HPP Made the switch somewhere around 2012. Pretty sure they are still propagating NDM#4. Pine Island made the switch a bit earlier; can't remember the exact year.

I was fortunate to get one of the older clones (mine was planted in 2006). No splitting, but the tree did take a few years to produce, unlike the more precocious #4. But patience always pays dividends.

In my opinion, NDM is an excellent mango eaten mature green. It has tart, but it also has enough brix to balance it out (when eaten at the right stage). It's like a sweet granny smith apple, if there were such a thing.

The NDM #4 can sometimes be very dwarf... which can be a problem for those who don't fertilize. I've literally seen NDM #4 trees die after 6+ years of not growing. And, I've seen NDM #4 trees well over 10 years in ground that barely stand 8 feet tall, with zero pruning. However, some NDM #4 trees do grow just as vigorously as the other NDM's (if memory serves, Zands has an NDM #4 that grew quite bit).

My guess is that there is some rootstock influence that causes the NDM #4 dwarfism. So it's a bit of a roll of the dice, but if you get the dwarfed NDM #4, those things stay tiny.

Splitting is an issue with NDM #4 though...

If I sourced a ndm from zill nursery what kind of ndm would it be?

[Tiberivs]

Interesting I bought mine in November 2013 so I’m close to the switch. Here is a pic of the tree in 2013 right before planting in ground. Also I’ve been inpatient with this tree it grew a lot from 2013-2017 and Has never fruited so last year I topped it to graft other variety and never got to it. So I might give it a chance now. I was upset when my brothers ndm which we bought from pine island nursery was not even a third of the size and has fruited a bunch. His tree does seem to be growing way slower.

2013 when I bought it.


2017



2017 topped



2018

Zills HPP Made the switch somewhere around 2012. Pretty sure they are still propagating NDM#4. Pine Island made the switch a bit earlier; can't remember the exact year.

I was fortunate to get one of the older clones (mine was planted in 2006). No splitting, but the tree did take a few years to produce, unlike the more precocious #4. But patience always pays dividends.

[Cookie Monster]

It's probably a #4. Usually they are more precocious than the older one, but not always apparently.

[skhan]

Interesting I bought mine in November 2013 so I’m close to the switch. Here is a pic of the tree in 2013 right before planting in ground. Also I’ve been inpatient with this tree it grew a lot from 2013-2017 and Has never fruited so last year I topped it to graft other variety and never got to it. So I might give it a chance now. I was upset when my brothers ndm which we bought from pine island nursery was not even a third of the size and has fruited a bunch. His tree does seem to be growing way slower.

2013 when I bought it.


2017



2017 topped



2018

Zills HPP Made the switch somewhere around 2012. Pretty sure they are still propagating NDM#4. Pine Island made the switch a bit earlier; can't remember the exact year.

I was fortunate to get one of the older clones (mine was planted in 2006). No splitting, but the tree did take a few years to produce, unlike the more precocious #4. But patience always pays dividends.

I have a similar experience with mine as well.
I bought it in 2014 as a pretty large 7g, now that the thing is about 15 ft with a similar spread it's finally fruiting.
Not one split yet, and first time getting fruit. (Around 70 lbs).

There tree flushes around 3-4 times a season with pretty large spaces between internodes (2ftish) if not tipped

[sunworshiper]

Searching through older postings, Mun Kun Si sounds really appealing - what I am looking for in a flavor profile. But one of sleepydoc's posts indicated it is a medium vigor tree. I've found that things that are in the medium to large range are too hard to keep small for my zone.

I think that NDM#4 seems to be the only one that sounds like it would be easy to keep small enough. However, the spot I have gets a lot of water off the eaves of my roof, so I think that splitting would be a problem for me.

I really appreciate all the great advise! I think I'm leaning towards continuing to buy green mango fruit when I can find them, rather than trying to grow one myself. Given the spot I have available, I think I'll have better success with one of the small statured ripe eating varieties.