Author Topic: Ilama (Annona diversifolia) (Read 38465 times)

murahilin · « **Reply #50 on:** May 09, 2012, 09:08:26 AM »

Quote from: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 12:56:29 AM

Now all I need is scion so we can clear the confusion, LOL.

Once someone sends you the Genova Red ilama budwood then you can show Roger Meyer what he was supposed to have gotten all those years ago!

As the information that Oscar quoted from Cornucopia shows, Har Mahdeem (Guanabanus on the forum) along with Zills (i think) introduced the Genova Red ilama in the 80s from Central America. Now, I don't think Har would confuse an atemoya and an ilama.

If Roger Meyer did not create or introduce his so called 'Genova Red' atemoya himself, he likely got incorrect budwood from someone who thought they had the Genova Red ilama but instead had an atemoya. Someone quoted earlier that Roger Meyer said he knows its an atemoya and the book was wrong because he grafted it himself. Grafting an incorrectly labeled tree does not make him right. Maybe someone can share with him the real Genova Red ilama budwood.

There may be the possibility that there is a red atemoya from Genova, Guatemala that is known as the Genova Red atemoya, and in that case, it would be very interesting to see what it looks like and maybe get some of the budwood for FL to add to the confusion.

behlgarden · « **Reply #51 on:** May 09, 2012, 10:29:41 AM »

Actually Roger emailed me last night and said that he grafted Ilama 5 years ago and it did not survive cold of So. Cal. He wasnt sure if Ilama would survive in So. Cal. Anyone? Temps here could drop to low 30's.

HMHausman · « **Reply #52 on:** May 09, 2012, 12:55:42 PM »

MY Genova Red, dormant like almost all annonas in the winter time, took 28 F without any limb damage. I think Roger is off the mark on this opinion as well.

Harry

behlgarden · « **Reply #53 on:** May 09, 2012, 12:58:46 PM »

Harry, then grafting onto my mature would make a lot of sense. would love to get it going as my tree is now pushing for growth and all grafts are being taken. I am not sure about how the scions look at your place though.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #54 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:27:53 PM »

Quote from: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 10:29:41 AM

Actually Roger emailed me last night and said that he grafted Ilama 5 years ago and it did not survive cold of So. Cal. He wasnt sure if Ilama would survive in So. Cal. Anyone? Temps here could drop to low 30's.

Atemoya is more tropical than Ilama, so if Roger can get the atemoya to survive i bet he can also get the ilama to survive.

behlgarden · « **Reply #55 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:43:02 PM »

I think mature trees do survive.

Oscar, I read somewhere that Annona's have life span of 8-10 years where they peak production between 5-9 years, then it starts to decline. What are your thoughts? I posted the manual under separate thread.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #56 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:57:36 PM »

Quote from: behlgarden on May 09, 2012, 04:43:02 PM

I think mature trees do survive.

Oscar, I read somewhere that Annona's have life span of 8-10 years where they peak production between 5-9 years, then it starts to decline. What are your thoughts? I posted the manual under separate thread.

Don't know about peak production in atemoyas. Don't have enough trees to make a conclusion on that. But is seems rather short. I would have thought they produce well for more years than that?

behlgarden · « **Reply #57 on:** May 09, 2012, 05:05:43 PM »

http://www.cropsforthefuture.org/publication/Manuals/Annona%20extension%20manual.pdf
Read here, ver informative

Guanabanus · « **Reply #58 on:** May 09, 2012, 06:13:13 PM »

'Genova Red' is an Ilama (Annona diversifolia), a superior red-fleshed variety which originated as a seedling near the Guatemalan town of Genova.
I cut graftwood from that tree in 1988, with Gary Zill. I had given the variety its current name a year earlier, but my grafts had not taken. The name includes the word 'red' to distinguish it from another variety--- which I got at the same farm--- which had white flesh, 'Genova White.'
CORNUCOPIA II correctly lists the info that I provided to the author. There is no controversy!

Let those who insist on calling some green-skinned, white-fleshed atemoya by this variety name, explain what is 'red about it, and how it came to be called "Genova." Genova where? Genova, Guatemala is not a source of atemoyas.

Jacob13 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:18:36 PM »

Hello Friends,

I thought I'd go ahead and throw this into the mix. When I bought the "Genova Red" from Roger Meyer, he told me it was an ilama. When I received it, it was quickly confimed by Forum members that is was not a "Genova Red" ilama, but most likely an Atemoya that was Green in color with White flesh. When I called Roger to ask him "What's the deal", he told me that the person he got the Budwood from sent him the wrong stuff. I hate to say it, but he reacted like he already knew what I had called to complain about. Either way, what he is selling is not the true "Genova Red" ilama, and I think that once this is discovered, he is saying that it is a "Genova Red" Atemoya, to cover his behind. To further my belief, I have an availibility list from him that states he has the 'Genova Red" ilama, when he really know it is not an ilama, but rather most likely an Atemoya..

JF · « **Reply #60 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:42:50 PM »

Quote from: Jacob13 on May 09, 2012, 08:18:36 PM

Hello Friends,

I thought I'd go ahead and throw this into the mix. When I bought the "Genova Red" from Roger Meyer, he told me it was an ilama. When I received it, it was quickly confimed by Forum members that is was not a "Genova Red" ilama, but most likely an Atemoya that was Green in color with White flesh. When I called Roger to ask him "What's the deal", he told me that the person he got the Budwood from sent him the wrong stuff. I hate to say it, but he reacted like he already knew what I had called to complain about. Either way, what he is selling is not the true "Genova Red" ilama, and I think that once this is discovered, he is saying that it is a "Genova Red" Atemoya, to cover his behind. To further my belief, I have an availibility list from him that states he has the 'Genova Red" ilama, when he really know it is not an ilama, but rather most likely an Atemoya..

Wow, that's bad news.....he probably got the scion from Steve at Exotica because Steve played the same trick on me. I have not fruited my fake Ilama( Genova Red) atemoya and ASaffron commented that my leaves remind him of a 48-26. I hope it's a Lisa I have one that I just grafted.

marklee · « **Reply #61 on:** May 10, 2012, 01:05:36 AM »

I have actually seen the original trees that Exotica has labeled as Red Ilama and one that is labeled as Genova Red, and also one labeled as Red Atemoya. I have tasted the fruit from the "Ilama" and Red Atemoya. They are not Ilamas and the leaves are not "diversifolia" I grafted Red Atemoya and Illama and I believe they are just seedling atemoyas and have had the fruit from these grafts. The only true Illama I have seen has been the one at the Fruit and Spice park in Fllorida and it was blooming with reddish flowers and the characteristic foliage.

Mark in Chula Vista

JF · « **Reply #62 on:** May 10, 2012, 08:08:53 PM »

Quote from: marklee on May 10, 2012, 01:05:36 AM

I have actually seen the original trees that Exotica has labeled as Red Ilama and one that is labeled as Genova Red, and also one labeled as Red Atemoya. I have tasted the fruit from the "Ilama" and Red Atemoya. They are not Ilamas and the leaves are not "diversifolia" I grafted Red Atemoya and Illama and I believe they are just seedling atemoyas and have had the fruit from these grafts. The only true Illama I have seen has been the one at the Fruit and Spice park in Fllorida and it was blooming with reddish flowers and the characteristic foliage.

Mark in Chula Vista

Interesting. I saw the original tree at Exotica. It is in the area that is now fenced off near the Okrung Mango. It looks nothing like the grafted Genova Red I have. I have not tried the fruit but there is a possibility that the tree could be a lisa 48-26. Please describe the fruit and if you have any pics can you please post them? Also, how do you know that this is an Atemoya seedling?

JF

cuban007 · « **Reply #63 on:** May 10, 2012, 10:32:40 PM »

We should give Roger a break......

JF I was at Exotica and what they had labeled as Red Ilama does not look like a Red Ilama. I bought some budwood and the leaves don't look like Red Ilama. I told them about it but I took them anyaway to test them. I have already grafted them. We will see how they develop.

Guanabanus · « **Reply #64 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:33:45 AM »

I bred a cherimoya with a sugar-apple to make the '48---26' (a.k.a. 'Lisa'). So 'Lisa' is an atemoya, not an atemoya seedling.

JF · « **Reply #65 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:40:36 AM »

Quote from: cuban007 on May 10, 2012, 10:32:40 PM

We should give Roger a break......

JF I was at Exotica and what they had labeled as Red Ilama does not look like a Red Ilama. I bought some budwood and the leaves don't look like Red Ilama. I told them about it but I took then anyaway to test them. I have already grafted them. We will see how they develop.

You have seen my fake Ilama from Exotica and I gave some budwood. I wouldn't waste a graft on the faux Ilama. I will fruit it this year and if it's not a Lisa I will remove it and put a real Genova Red in its place.

JF

JF · « **Reply #66 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:42:27 AM »

Quote from: Guanabanus on May 11, 2012, 12:33:45 AM

I bred a cherimoya with a sugar-apple to make the '48---26' (a.k.a. 'Lisa'). So 'Lisa' is an atemoya, not an atemoya seedling.

Hi Har

Can you ID a Lisa by its leaves or do I have to wait for the fruit?

JF

Guanabanus · « **Reply #67 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:44:42 AM »

Wait for the fruit.

JF · « **Reply #68 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:49:50 AM »

Quote from: Guanabanus on May 11, 2012, 12:44:42 AM

Wait for the fruit.

Ok, I've tried the fruit so I know what to look for. Adam said the leaves on my Atemoya looked like a Lisa.

Thanks
JF

behlgarden · « **Reply #69 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:24:37 PM »

it looks like Ilama Red is a hot favorite now and there are a lot of seekers of scions. Joe, if you happen to get your hands on it, keep me in mind. I would do the same.

marklee · « **Reply #70 on:** May 13, 2012, 11:35:38 PM »

Yes, I realize the Lisa is not an Atemoya seedling, I recall the Exotica fake Ilama having cracking fruit and gold in color which makes me believe it is a Lisa. The one labeled Red Atemoya from Exotica was more conical like a Geffner.
Anyway, I just acquired some real Ilama scions today with a red flower still attached on one piece, and plenty of buds ready to open. I got two varieties, one is said to have come from Mexico with round leaves, the other I assume is a regular Ilama. So much confusion, I grafted them over to some decent sized rootstock, and just for fun side grafted a piece onto the fake Exotica Red Ilama I have in the ground.

Mark in Chula Vista

JF · « **Reply #71 on:** May 14, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »

My Red Ilama is growing fast everyday since the graft took a month ago. I had two other annonas grafted on the same rootstock and I removed them. Here is a pic I grafted the scion 2 month ago.

Tim · « **Reply #72 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:30:46 AM »

Looking good, Joe. Find a way to breed that baby with one of your Cherimoyas

behlgarden · « **Reply #73 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:26:45 PM »

Joe,

is this the real red ilama OR the one from Roger?

JF · « **Reply #74 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:46:47 PM »

Quote from: behlgarden on May 14, 2012, 12:26:45 PM

Joe,

is this the real red ilama OR the one from Roger?

NO. this is a real annona diversifolia (Genova Red) look at the aerial pics of the new growth it's purple. I am waiting for the red flowers.

News:

Author Topic: Ilama (Annona diversifolia) (Read 38465 times)