The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Faldon on October 24, 2018, 11:17:50 PM
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Good day
The winter temperatures in this area drop to -10C.
Avocados can live here in the outdoor?
THanks.
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Winter Cado. J/K....I think most will die in the 20's, nevertheless, -10.
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-10C is 14F... At any rate there was a thread earlier about cold hearty avocados. Search for that.
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How does it get to -10C in Pusan/Busan? You are in a coastal region and on the same latitude as Malta, Crete, Gibraltar, North Carolina...
Anyway, try and get seeds of the avocado cultivar "Aravaipa" or "Don Juan". I tried before but nobody wanted to engage. Good luck.
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Thanks. everyone.
I will try to get the seeds to follow your advise.
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Thanks. everyone.
I will try to get the seeds to follow your advise.
Do not get avocado seeds. You have no idea what the quality of the tree will be, and you’ll waste 6years of your life in the process.
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The following are the most hardy I know of, all said to be hardy to 15F.
Pancho, Joey, Fantastic, Lila & Brazos Belle.
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Thanks. everyone.
I will try to get the seeds to follow your advise.
Do not get avocado seeds. You have no idea what the quality of the tree will be, and you’ll waste 6years of your life in the process.
Can he not do other things during the 6 years that trees are growing in his yard? Think a little more before uttering nonsense. The guy claims to be in a climate of -10C minimum, so in order to stand any chance he needs to work with seedling trees A) for their vigor and B) their genetic variation. No current cultivars are known to be that cold hardy, so what the hell is he going to have grafted? Added the fact that it would very expensive to bring trees to South Korea. A bit of a breeding project is in order here.
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The following are the most hardy I know of, all said to be hardy to 15F.
Pancho, Joey, Fantastic, Lila & Brazos Belle.
You forgot duke and winter mexican...
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How does it get to -10C in Pusan/Busan? You are in a coastal region and on the same latitude as Malta, Crete, Gibraltar, North Carolina...
Anyway, try and get seeds of the avocado cultivar "Aravaipa" or "Don Juan". I tried before but nobody wanted to engage. Good luck.
There is a tremendous difference between all those points in Mediterranean and North Carolina with South Korea. Latitude isn't everything. Last two are firmly temperate climates. No shortage of hard freezes in North Carolina even in warmer coastal areas. Unprotected avocado tree in South Korea is a wild idea and should be replaced with something more doable. Even if temps don't reach -10 that particular winter, persistent and consistent temp around freezing will get the tree every year.
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For cold hardy ive seen some claim the aravaipa can handle 10 degrees but i have doubts, i suspect a large tree though can survive high teens if tree is decent in size, there are some very large duke trees in oroville ca, the trees are likey over 70 years old, trunks are likey over 3 feet thick, im sure temps in that area has got below 17 degrees over the last 70 years. Im including picture of new aravaipa grafts that took i also have duke in my cold hardy group along with boony doon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rzx2ZWP0/20191223-141009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzx2ZWP0)
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Unprotected avocado tree in South Korea is a wild idea and should be replaced with something more doable. Even if temps don't reach -10 that particular winter, persistent and consistent temp around freezing will get the tree every year.
Looks very cold for avocado. Check out the frost days line!
https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/busan_republic-of-korea_1838524 (https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/historyclimate/climatemodelled/busan_republic-of-korea_1838524)
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Aravipa from Arizona
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Jeju island offshore and south of the Korean mainland is where citrus is grown avocado would probably do well there.
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Outdoors in -10C sounds pretty unlikely. What about Wurtz/Little Cado in a container that can be kept outdoors in good weather and brought into shelter when it's cold? If totally outdoors is essential, Del Rio sounds promising--this article claims hardiness to -9C, which is pretty close to what you need. https://floridafruitgeek.com/cold-hardy-avocados/?fbclid=IwAR1_bB3mKvWVuHz5SoFD25bZoxvabjDLLgVYEVRnEbfBIU4jP7xIpyFnpEY
Much will depend on the duration of the low temperatures--a short drop into the mid-teens might be doable, but I expect protracted cold lasting many hours or days would be lethal. Also, in a conversation with a grower in Texas, I was told it's particularly damaging when the temperature drops abruptly from mild conditions to a hard freeze.
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I am not sure where you got the idea that Bonny Doon has any cold hardiness attributes whatsoever . Until you have any data it would be kind to stop perpetuating a myth that the Bonny Doon avocado is cold hardy.
The mother tree grows less than 1 mile from the Ocean in an area that very rarely gets below 30 degree’s or has any sort of frost.
quote author=Avoman link=topic=30178.msg374810#msg374810 date=1577247166]
For cold hardy ive seen some claim the aravaipa can handle 10 degrees but i have doubts, i suspect a large tree though can survive high teens if tree is decent in size, there are some very large duke trees in oroville ca, the trees are likey over 70 years old, trunks are likey over 3 feet thick, im sure temps in that area has got below 17 degrees over the last 70 years. Im including picture of new aravaipa grafts that took i also have duke in my cold hardy group along with boony doon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rzx2ZWP0/20191223-141009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzx2ZWP0)
[/quote]
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Bush look at epicenter website im going by what is said on their website not where mother tree is grown.i consider any avo doing pretty well when able to handle temps under 25 degrees F.
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Excellent link Tucsonken a very good read.
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Ismael avocado. A large(2-5lb) California West Indian race avocado. Very clean, easy peel, creamy, a holiday avocado.....much better than Bacon and the exports from Chile and Mexico that flood the market during the holidays.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9zqCj70R/781-F71-D3-4-AE6-4-D34-B68-E-045578-C4-DEB5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zqCj70R)
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Sending pic of epicenter decription of bonny doon for anyone considering planting, they sound like at least as cold hardy as a zutano or bacon and likey even better tasting than a zutano or bacon, though i personaly like zutano fruit.For ultimate cold hardy i would go with someones list posted earlier and add 10 more kinds staying with full mexican blood will likey produce best results, protect any kind in severe freeze, full tent with added heat.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRD3VBHC/Screenshot-2019-12-26-17-08-27.png) (https://postimg.cc/CRD3VBHC)
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It doesn’t get under 25 at Epicenter nursery or where the Bonny Doon mother tree is.
Why are you so set on having this be a very cold tolerant Avocado when it is most likely a Hass seedling (guatemalan heritage) that has not exhibited those characteristics?
If people want to grow a very cold tolerant Avocado it’s better to not set up for failure and go for a Mexicola, Duke or Aravaipa where there is data and people growing them through cold winters with frost on the ground. There is no such data I have seen for Bonny Doon.
Bush look at epicenter website im going by what is said on their website not where mother tree is grown.i consider any avo doing pretty well when able to handle temps under 25 degrees F.
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If epicenter said their tree did pretty well in 22degrees i have no reason not to beileve them if you refuse to believe them thats your choice, 22 f is plenty cold enough for what i want to grow in but im sure full mexicans can do even better still but only medium to large trees not fair to report death of anything very young and small trees, i still consider 22 in cold hardy group, if any one had a large boony doon die or major damage at 18 or 20 or 22 degree f.. i would love hear about it.aravaipa pic included graft getting a bit bigger.
(https://i.postimg.cc/z3g0SJnC/Screenshot-2019-12-26-10-28-48.png) (https://postimg.cc/z3g0SJnC)
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If anyone has a carolina, wilma, poncho, thoses are a few i would like to know about, seems like their mostly grown in texas.
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The important thing for those who do not have access to cold hardy avocados to start from seed is to get a good rootstock first.
Once that's done we can concentrate on grafting.
With the varieties present in this repertoire.
https://toptropicals.com/html/toptropicals/articles/fruit/varieties_avocado.htm
According to my research aravaipa could resist until -10°C or -12°C but in what condition?
Grafted or not grafted?
If the rootstock is more fragile, then it is inevitable that the grafted variety will eventually die.
But even if indeed the climate in Korea is very cold for avocado, it can be possible with cold hardy avocados in unheated greenhouse.
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Avoman, here's a video by Jerry Satterlee in Texas who grows each of the varieties you mentioned in his yard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5rPwipvHBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5rPwipvHBA)). He has other videos on youtube as well. Based on his enthusiasm for Poncho, it's probably one of the better-tasting Texas/Mexican varieties. However, Bill Schneider, who grows several of these avocados commercially and only lives 20 miles or so from Mr. Satterlee, told me that Poncho didn't survive the cold at his own place in Devine--so I assume it's not quite as cold hardy as Wilma, Opal, Pryor, and the other types he has trademarked. I grow Wilma in Tucson and have posted about it on this forum in years past, if you want to search the topic.
Shiro, if you "micrograft" a cold-hardy scion as close as possible to the seed of a newly-sprouted rootstock seedling of a somewhat less-cold-hardy variety, you may be able to protect the rootstock from the cold by raising the soil level until the graft union is a couple inches underground. That way the rootstock stays entirely underground, and is never exposed to the colder, above-ground temperatures. And, even if the grafted variety is frozen to the ground, it may resprout from above the graft, preserving the desired variety. Additional "survival-level" protection can be gained by temporarily mounding mulch or soil higher around the trunk when a hard freeze is predicted.
Here's an example of the grafting technique I use ('Day' scion grafted onto'Wilma' seedling). To avoid contaminating the wound, don't raise the soil level until the graft union is completely healed. Another advantage of this type of grafting is that all the stored energy of the seed is channeled into growing the scion and healing the graft:
(https://i.postimg.cc/KKGjt1v3/1-rdc-2018-02-24-avocado-grafting-4970-Day.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKGjt1v3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1gvtByfC/2-rdc-2018-02-24-avocado-grafting-4973-Day.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gvtByfC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tZ7gm86X/3-rdc-2018-03-27-day-avocado-grafted-2018-02-14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZ7gm86X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFK4RSm0/4-rdc-2018-04-02-Day-Avocado-grafted-2018-02-24.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFK4RSm0)
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Very interesting TucksonKen, so it allows you to graft in the first year instead of waiting 1 year.
For emancipation I had read in this study that you have to put the young plants in the dark for a while before emancipation.
https://ucanr.edu/sites/alternativefruits/files/121265.pdf
What is the ideal temperature for a micrograft?
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Very interesting article, Shiro--thanks for the link! However, I'm just a backyard hobbyist trying to find varieties that can succeed in a marginal climate and soil. I'm not aware of any avocado root rot problem in my yard yet (maybe that's next), so I haven't been concerned about clonal rootstocks, which sound far beyond my level of expertise. I'm really not an expert in any aspect of avocado propagation, although I've had good success with this grafting approach. I'm not familiar with "emancipation' in the context of grafting/growing avocados--do you mean etiolation? As far as an ideal temperature, I haven't paid close attention, but have had the best success in spring and fall when it's neither too hot nor too cold. I immediately put the newly-grafted plants into morning sun (under the eaves on the east side of my house) and gradually move them further from the house until they have full sun most of the day.
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Emancipation: refers to a tree that, when grafted, produces roots above the graft because it is planted too deep. The emancipation increases the vigour of the tree often to the detriment of the production and quality of the fruit.
https://www.greffer.net/?p=514 (https://www.greffer.net/?p=514)
It comes back to what you said in your previous message, but perhaps there is a more appropriate word than this in English.
Watch this video where he shows their methods with rootstock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyMogjYoldY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyMogjYoldY)
I'm not an expert with avocados yet either.
And 3 big questions in mind for which I'm going to create another topic of discussion.
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Now I understand--thank you for the explanation. If there's a better word in English, I don't know it, either! The intent of grafting so close to the seed and then burying the graft union is not to grow new roots above the graft (although I suppose that is likely to happen over time, even without etiolation, since avocados can be air layered), but instead, it's simply to protect a less-cold-hardy rootstock from freezing temperatures. I have wondered if there could be any detriment if the scion did end up growing some of its own roots, such as losing salt tolerance or becoming more vulnerable to root rot, but I simply don't know.