Picked a Rollinia today

[Guanabanus]

It is true that nitidulids stay away from soursop, but I believe they are the main pollinators of Rollinia here.

[Berto]

Har,
I am aware that rollinias do not "need" cross pollination.  Maybe, I should have asked if it would be beneficial to plant a profilic bearer next to a not so prolific bearer such as humongous to see if the non profilic bearer would increases its fruit production.  And maybe we could come up with another hybrid.  I am thinking about planting two diferent seedlings together and see if I end up with a third different fruit.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Har,
I am aware that rollinias do not "need" cross pollination.  Maybe, I should have asked if it would be beneficial to plant a profilic bearer next to a not so prolific bearer such as humongous to see if the non profilic bearer would increases its fruit production.  And maybe we could come up with another hybrid.  I am thinking about planting two diferent seedlings together and see if I end up with a third different fruit.

Just grow seeds and taste the fruits!  you should end up with a new one soon enough...I hope mine is extra special.

I'll name it something really ridiculous...

I have plans to create new cultivars with horrible names...here are a few samples!

H8T3F4Q-22 (rollina)

Adamoya (atemoya)

Goatsblood (passion fruit)

and of course my "Mango formerly known as Prince"

[Felipe]

Adamoya... LMAO

[fruitlovers]

Adamoya... LMAO

There is a commercial atemoya farm here called Ataboya. 
Oscar

[FlyingFoxFruits]

i know its' vein to name one after yourself, but I'm naming it after the Adam from the bible..not me...LOL ya right.

I have a few seedlings of 48-26, possibly fruiting for the first time this year, hopefully they continually make unusually high quality fruit without pollination, at a young age...you will truly see some "adamoyas" if it happens!

[FlyingFoxFruits]

x

[stressbaby]

What is the difference between R. deliciosa and R. mucosa?  Is there a difference?

[Guanabanus]

They are the same.  Officially it is "mucosa", but since that is digusting --- why name a fruit from its spoiling stage?--- we afficionados prefer the old synonym, Rollinia deliciosa Safford.  Also good is the northern Brazilian name, "Biribá."   For those using "Rollinia" as a common name, remember that there are some 45 species of Rollinia, which is a bona fide genus, that some are now lumping back into the Annona genus.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

if they can hybridize why not lump them? can they hybridize? i thought so?? but who knows???

[fruitlovers]

They are the same.  Officially it is "mucosa", but since that is digusting --- why name a fruit from its spoiling stage?--- we afficionados prefer the old synonym, Rollinia deliciosa Safford.  Also good is the northern Brazilian name, "Biribá."   For those using "Rollinia" as a common name, remember that there are some 45 species of Rollinia, which is a bona fide genus, that some are now lumping back into the Annona genus.

Rollinia is the common name here for Rollinia deliciosa. No confusion as no other rollinias are grown here, and certainly no other ones sold in markets. Biriba is a nice name but very hard to get people to change once a common name has already set in and been established. I think an even nicer name is fruta da condessa, Countess Fruit--gives it the much deserved royal flare. 
BTW, there are only 34 accepted species in genus rollinia, but very few of these are edible, and of the ones that are edible most are very small and extremely seedy. Don't know of any other rollinias in same high class as deliciosa.
Oscar

[siafu]

Yes.  My two hybrid Rollinia deliciosa (officially R. Mucosa, or now Annona mucosa again, if you can believe it.) are 'Prolific' and 'Humungous.'  ...  My trees are grafted onto a distantly related species.

Can you specify the species rootstock you are using?

[Guanabanus]

I attempted many time to breed Rollinia deliciosa with many Annona species.  It does not work.  That total incompatibility for engendering offspring, plus the distinct flower type, argues for maintaining recognition of the Rollinia genus.

For the total number of Rollinia species, I refer to Flora Neotropica Monograph 57: Rollinia, by Paul J M Maas and Lubbert Y Th Westra, New York Botanic Garden, 1992.  42 species properly described, plus two species partially described.  I believe one or two have been described since.

[Tropicdude]

In the D.R., for the few that know the fruit, call them "Candongo".   

I have one in a container, and have noticed they are Deciduous, well at least mine seems so, last 3 years the leaves turn yellow and drop in the winter here. is this normal for this tree?  anyway, as soon as they are almost all gone, within a few weeks its covered in leaves again.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

In the D.R., for the few that know the fruit, call them "Candongo".   

I have one in a container, and have noticed they are Deciduous, well at least mine seems so, last 3 years the leaves turn yellow and drop in the winter here. is this normal for this tree?  anyway, as soon as they are almost all gone, within a few weeks its covered in leaves again.

ya, they are deciduous.

mine doesn't drop all leave because I green house it, but it does drop some...mine never stops flowering though...which is strange, because its had temps of 38F or so each year.

[fruitlovers]

My Rollinia deliciosa drops most of its leaves and then starts a new fruiting cycle. I would be interested to hear from Har if both his Peruvian and Amazonian originated Rollinia deliciosas both drop their leaves? I'm guessing there would be no need for dropping leaves in plants that truly originate in the amazon...that the ones that are deciduous or partly deciduous are either ones that are from more southern parts of S. America or Caribbean, or are crosses from Amazonian and cooler climate rollinia land races, crosseslike Har has done between Peruvian and Amazonian.
This might explain why most of the Rollinia deliciosas in Florida are cold hardy, as it seems that most people are growing crosses, in this case Amazon/Peru crosses that Har developed?
Oscar

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I attempted many time to breed Rollinia deliciosa with many Annona species.  It does not work.  That total incompatibility for engendering offspring, plus the distinct flower type, argues for maintaining recognition of the Rollinia genus.

For the total number of Rollinia species, I refer to Flora Neotropica Monograph 57: Rollinia, by Paul J M Maas and Lubbert Y Th Westra, New York Botanic Garden, 1992.  42 species properly described, plus two species partially described.  I believe one or two have been described since.

Im with u then, guanabanus...I keep calling them Rollinia, not annona...

but soursop has much different flower than squamosa, cherimola, diversifolia and reticulata, but similar to galabra... why not group montana, glabra, muricata together under separate genus like rollinia?

I say if they can hybridize, they should be in same genus...do you know if muricata can hybridize with glabra or montana?

Or if Rollinia deliciosa can hybridize with R. emarginata, R.rugulosa, or the likes?

Thanks for all the great posts Mr Guanabanus!

You are one of few who I'd be happy to share my guanabana fruit with, and rollinia fruits with this year!  I hope to have both again soon!  My guanabana took a beating, but are recovering well...I was happy as a lark in manure, to have my first guanabana home grown this year!

[FlyingFoxFruits]

My Rollinia deliciosa drops most of its leaves and then starts a new fruiting cycle. I would be interested to hear from Har if both his Peruvian and Amazonian originated Rollinia deliciosas both drop their leaves? I'm guessing there would be no need for dropping leaves in plants that truly originate in the amazon...that the ones that are deciduous or partly deciduous are either ones that are from more southern parts of S. America or Caribbean, or are crosses from Amazonian and cooler climate rollinia land races, crosseslike Har has done between Peruvian and Amazonian.
This might explain why most of the Rollinia deliciosas in Florida are cold hardy, as it seems that most people are growing crosses, in this case Amazon/Peru crosses that Har developed?
Oscar

Oscar,

I apologize for my rash comments in past about Rollinia ....I'm finding that they are quite cold tolerant, but It could be possible I'm sure that some have less tolerance...

but I keep seeing them do so well here through freezes...and so many different trees as well...all over the state...

Fruit and spice has over 4 or 5 different trees, all take freezing well.  Where A reticulata got hammered and so did A muricata.

Maybe see where fruit and spice got their trees? and if they come from amazon, then I'd say they are all cold tolerant!

Also...maybe take a seedling up into the mountains for a few evenings to see how it handles 28F?

You will be surprised I bet!!!

Please let me know! 

I am growing seeds from you, so I will let you know if they are sensitive...I don't think they will be.

All rollinias will live through 28F no  problemo....JMO...

[fruitlovers]

My Rollinia deliciosa drops most of its leaves and then starts a new fruiting cycle. I would be interested to hear from Har if both his Peruvian and Amazonian originated Rollinia deliciosas both drop their leaves? I'm guessing there would be no need for dropping leaves in plants that truly originate in the amazon...that the ones that are deciduous or partly deciduous are either ones that are from more southern parts of S. America or Caribbean, or are crosses from Amazonian and cooler climate rollinia land races, crosseslike Har has done between Peruvian and Amazonian.
This might explain why most of the Rollinia deliciosas in Florida are cold hardy, as it seems that most people are growing crosses, in this case Amazon/Peru crosses that Har developed?
Oscar

Oscar,

I apologize for my rash comments in past about Rollinia ....I'm finding that they are quite cold tolerant, but It could be possible I'm sure that some have less tolerance...

but I keep seeing them do so well here through freezes...and so many different trees as well...all over the state...

Fruit and spice has over 4 or 5 different trees, all take freezing well.  Where A reticulata got hammered and so did A muricata.

Maybe see where fruit and spice got their trees? and if they come from amazon, then I'd say they are all cold tolerant!

Also...maybe take a seedling up into the mountains for a few evenings to see how it handles 28F?

You will be surprised I bet!!!

Please let me know! 

I am growing seeds from you, so I will let you know if they are sensitive...I don't think they will be.

All rollinias will live through 28F no  problemo....JMO...

Hi Adam, no sweat. I was just thinking outloud with my hypothesis. I didn't doubt any of your observations or the observations of Ed. I think you both misunderstood me and what my intent was. Maybe i also didn't make myself clear enough? What i was trying to do was to find something out through you and Ed, and now i added Har. I'm guessing that there are different land races of Rollinia deliciosa, and that some are quite hardy and others not. My plants, the ones i sent you seed from are deciduous, so i guess they also will be cold hardy, at least to some extent. I also guess that if i take a Rollinia deliciosa plant directly out of Amazon area and originating in Amazon and grow it out, or one of it's seedlings it will not be deciduous or cold hardy. But it's only a hypothesis at this point, it could be totally wrong. I don't have any emotional investment either way.
Oscar

[Soren]

My Rollinia deliciosa drops most of its leaves and then starts a new fruiting cycle. I would be interested to hear from Har if both his Peruvian and Amazonian originated Rollinia deliciosas both drop their leaves? I'm guessing there would be no need for dropping leaves in plants that truly originate in the amazon...that the ones that are deciduous or partly deciduous are either ones that are from more southern parts of S. America or Caribbean, or are crosses from Amazonian and cooler climate rollinia land races, crosseslike Har has done between Peruvian and Amazonian.
This might explain why most of the Rollinia deliciosas in Florida are cold hardy, as it seems that most people are growing crosses, in this case Amazon/Peru crosses that Har developed?
Oscar

Here in Uganda, my trees drop the leaves during the two dry seasons (this time it was two months without rain) - and a few of them in the swamp exhibit stunned growth related to "periodic flooding"; so also in that regard there could be some variation for climatic adaptation within this species. Not sure if anyone have trees subject to flooding and they actually thrive; an adaptability described by Morton?
Anestor in Brazil has a "Humongous" (https://picasaweb.google.com/101936771881917391876/Frutas43FruitsFruchteFruttiFrukter#5458817369070081106). Har - this must be one of the parents of your cross?

[Future]

Must get seeds.  Must get seeds. Must get...

[Guanabanus]

I'm not sure about where Anestor got 'Humungous'.  I am not aware of it's having been propagated, other than by me from the original tree at Zill's to have one in my yard.  Perhaps I gave graftwood to Antonia Morschbacker, but I don't remember.  If these seeds are from a tree grown from seed from my 'Humungous' then they should be labeled as "seeds from a 'Humungous' seedling."  They will not be exactly the same.   I refer you to the cover photo of the Annona Issue of TROPICAL FRUIT WORLD, 1990, which is of 'Humungous' fruits that I took to the editor for a professional photo shoot.  Neither I or nor Zill has either of the parent trees from the Iquitos area and the Manaus area, both of which were from seeds collected by Alan Carle on his expeditions in the late 1970's.

I have not kept notes about their defoliation habits, but it is not unusual to see them with few leaves after temperatures in the 30's.  I don't recall ever seeing them fully dormant like Annona reticulata.  I also don't recall any unusual cold susceptibility, other than bitter fruits that had hung on through near-freezing temperatures.

[Soren]

I'm not sure about where Anestor got 'Humungous'.  I am not aware of it's having been propagated, other than by me from the original tree at Zill's to have one in my yard.  Perhaps I gave graftwood to Antonia Morschbacker, but I don't remember.  If these seeds are from a tree grown from seed from my 'Humungous' then they should be labeled as "seeds from a 'Humungous' seedling."  They will not be exactly the same.   I refer you to the cover photo of the Annona Issue of TROPICAL FRUIT WORLD, 1990, which is of 'Humungous' fruits that I took to the editor for a professional photo shoot.  Neither I or nor Zill has either of the parent trees from the Iquitos area and the Manaus area, both of which were from seeds collected by Alan Carle on his expeditions in the late 1970's.

It is possible he could have received budwood from Antonio (I have a bit of a problem logging on to the yahoo group where there could be more information from Anestor on the subject, otherwise I can email him)!
Do you see any similarities regarding the fruit shape which appears a bit unique?

[Guanabanus]

Though the central areas of Amazonia are very low elevation, have day lengths varying by only 10 or 20 minutes through the year, are soetimes wet all year and other years have a 3-week to 10-week dry season, many species are distinctly seasonal in their leaf dropping and flowering.  It seems a bit of a mystery how that could be so.  Species don't necessarily have the same leaf dropping or flowering times as nearby species.

Although it is true that many Amazonian species are harmed even by temperatures in the low 50's, other species are hardy to several degrees below freezing.

This is theoretically explained post-Ice-Age plant repopulation of the vast deserts in the Amazonian lowlands from mountain refugia that had gotten enough rain for forest survival through the Ice Age.  These refugia would have been the lower eastern foothills of the Andes and the mountains and Tepuis along the current Brazilian borders with Venezuela and the Guyanas.  Non-cold-hardy species would have moved west from the Atlantic coast.

[Guanabanus]

Fruit appearance varies on the same tree at the same time, so it is un-wise for me to speak definitively, but Anestor's photo shows fruits that are more oblong and heavier lobed than mine.