The Tropical Fruit Forum

Temperate Fruit & Orchards => Temperate Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 09:29:18 PM

Title: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 09:29:18 PM
I spent some time this past spring and summer locating A. Triloba stands in the brush throughout the south eastern quarter of the state of Tennessee. I have become somewhat fascinated with this annona relative and wanted to find and taste this elusive fruit. Being a native of this fine state it is sad to say that I had never heard of this fruit until my exposure to tropical fruits while living in Florida. While it is not a tropical fruit, after tasting these I think they do deserve mention.

May
http://s25.postimg.cc/tnhm75i8v/IMG_20140528_162606.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/tnhm75i8v/IMG_20140528_162606.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/fkvos6cv3/IMG_20140528_162326.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/fkvos6cv3/IMG_20140528_162326.jpg)

August 10
http://s25.postimg.cc/o4jo3oalb/IMG_20140810_150719.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/o4jo3oalb/IMG_20140810_150719.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/c585wd50f/IMG_20140810_151938.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/c585wd50f/IMG_20140810_151938.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/j763ik8m7/IMG_20140810_152901.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/j763ik8m7/IMG_20140810_152901.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/mtbwv7ezj/IMG_20140810_154306.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/mtbwv7ezj/IMG_20140810_154306.jpg)

And a view of the water in the immediate area

http://s25.postimg.cc/tl2by23z3/IMG_20140503_132514.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/tl2by23z3/IMG_20140503_132514.jpg)

These fruits were very delicious and quite complex in flavor. I can only describe the flavor of the fruits off this particular tree as a cross between mango, peach and some other fruity notes. I could not taste any similarities to banana or any negative after taste.





Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 10:28:54 PM
Here is some fruit from another area. This stand of trees produces fruit that has a taste similar to apple butter and butter scotch, again a very complex flavor.

The yellow bellied sap suckers have been at work on this tree.

http://s25.postimg.cc/l606wn0yn/IMG_20140521_180914.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/l606wn0yn/IMG_20140521_180914.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/x1mh1fqfz/IMG_20140521_180726.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/x1mh1fqfz/IMG_20140521_180726.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/6s1ein4in/IMG_20140816_133933.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/6s1ein4in/IMG_20140816_133933.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/pgeus861r/IMG_20140816_134406.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/pgeus861r/IMG_20140816_134406.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/4yyhubjbz/IMG_20140521_182944.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/4yyhubjbz/IMG_20140521_182944.jpg)


Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on August 19, 2014, 10:44:29 PM
Good work.  Beautiful photos and good flavor descriptions.

Are you familiar with the Pawpaw Foundation?   And the National Asimina Germplasm Collection at Kentucky State University?

They would probably be interested in hearing from you.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 11:05:26 PM
Har, I am not familiar with the Pawpaw Foundation but will look it up. I wanted to visit KSU during my last trip up north but I ended up having such a great time in the woods photographing the trees that I ran out of time! I may visit later in the fall.


Here is a pic of the trunk of the tree in my last post.

http://s25.postimg.cc/cirkwdcin/IMG_20140521_180334.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/cirkwdcin/IMG_20140521_180334.jpg)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 11:28:54 PM
I found this spot in early June on a rainy day. A pair of sharp eyes helps. Can you see the triloba leaves in the first photo?

http://s25.postimg.cc/vsylfsyhr/IMG_20140601_171359.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/vsylfsyhr/IMG_20140601_171359.jpg)

And closer..
http://s25.postimg.cc/ru1dwz9un/IMG_20140601_171004.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/ru1dwz9un/IMG_20140601_171004.jpg)

Not a lot of trees here but fruit is hanging!
http://s25.postimg.cc/9pydccc67/IMG_20140601_170737.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/9pydccc67/IMG_20140601_170737.jpg)

http://s25.postimg.cc/5jdix0ckf/IMG_20140601_170825.jpg (http://s25.postimg.cc/5jdix0ckf/IMG_20140601_170825.jpg)

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on August 19, 2014, 11:38:45 PM
you're rich with varieties of poor man's banana

thanks for bringing me my first PMB to taste...I was uber impressed!

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 19, 2014, 11:53:36 PM
Your welcome Adam, I wish you could have tasted some of the fruit off the tree in the first post on this thread. Without bias the taste of that particular wild fruit was superior to some of the annona cultivars that I have tasted. That plain green exterior hides some interesting flavors. I will definitely be back to that spot in spring to get some budwood to graft.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: edself65 on August 20, 2014, 07:10:58 AM
Nice photos Bob! Have you been able to try the Wabash Pawpaws to see how they taste compared to the ones you found in the wild?

Ed
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 20, 2014, 09:56:47 AM
Hi Ed, no I have not tried the Wabash or any cultivars. If the varieties are any better than some of the wild fruit that I have tasted then I will be thoroughly impressed. So far though I have only tasted the earlier fruit this season and I hope to get my teeth on some of the later season fruits.
 I looked for Wabash while I was in Tn last week, at your recommendation, but could not find any trees for sale. I had to settle for Susquehannah, Shenandoah, NC-1 and two Allegheny. I already have two Mango, Prolific, Hillcrest and Sunflower. Those named varieties are at a property in Tn but have a few years before I can comment on the fruits.
 
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: edself65 on August 20, 2014, 11:20:17 AM
We had a few Wabash fruit to sample at our Texas Fruit Club meetings in Austin and Houston last week. We also had some fruit collected from the wild to compare. The Wabash was a favorite all around! It really sparked a lot of interest in growing pawpaws from our group!

Ed
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 20, 2014, 01:13:27 PM
The trees in my garden are all seedlings from an orchard of named varieties, so they are mixed but from cultivars and not wild fruits. They started dropping a couple of weeks ago and at first the fruit was a little weak in flavor. Now I pick a few up every day and place them in the refrigerator for a week or more, until I see dark splotches forming on the skin. They taste fantastic!! a lot of mango flavor, very similar to a high quality cherimoya (not like the ones we buy here at the store in NC). I'm thinking of making room for a few more trees now that I've tasted how good these guys can be.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Qoppa on August 20, 2014, 03:12:16 PM
John, are you planning on going to the NC Pawpaw Festival this weekend?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on August 20, 2014, 07:54:47 PM
I'm going to be hunting for some of the native pawpaws to Orange and Seminole counties....I just read a book that had descriptions of about 8 different species...almost half of them are indigenous to areas less than 1 hr away from my house!  I would love to see some fruits, and taste them..even if they are a bit unpleasant tasting.  I know there is a chance i might like them anyway..or might find a decent tasting variety.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: phantomcrab on August 20, 2014, 08:49:13 PM
Quote
The trees in my garden are all seedlings from an orchard of named varieties, so they are mixed but from cultivars and not wild fruits. They started dropping a couple of weeks ago and at first the fruit was a little weak in flavor. Now I pick a few up every day and place them in the refrigerator for a week or more, until I see dark splotches forming on the skin. They taste fantastic!! a lot of mango flavor, very similar to a high quality cherimoya (not like the ones we buy here at the store in NC). I'm thinking of making room for a few more trees now that I've tasted how good these guys can be.
When I ate wild pawpaws as a kid I always thought the fruit was rather bland, especially when compared to the local peaches. I did not know anything about storing them in a refrigerator to ripen further.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Sanddollarmoon on August 20, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
Congratulations, Bob, a beautiful specimen! Sounds like a great strain, did you plant any seeds?

There is a sapling not far into the forest near me, about three meters tall with several suckers. I cannot locate any parent or sister trees in the woods nearby, unfortunately.

Adam, keep us updated on your plight! The internet is severely lacking in information on these temperate annonaceae. If you manage to locate A. parviflora or reticulate, these are two species I am interested in.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 01:51:49 AM
Yes Patrick, I have planted some seeds of another type that will be rootstocks for the better varieties that I find.

Here are the seeds on May 24
(http://s25.postimg.cc/chqtufpgb/IMG_20140524_142615.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/chqtufpgb/)

And a pic of the same seeds on August 9
(http://s25.postimg.cc/6i32qs4nv/IMG_20140809_152354.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6i32qs4nv/)

I found these seeds during a rain, they had floated up out of the leaf litter. Even the peeled seed germinated. They seem to be doing well despite my rudimentary set up :)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 02:09:26 AM
Here is another spot where I found an old tree that had given way as the bank receded. Fortunately it is sending new shoots up from the trunk. I will have to check up on this one again in a couple years. The mosquitoes in this area were thick enough to carry off small children!

(http://s25.postimg.cc/8p7bep9y3/IMG_20140529_173118.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/8p7bep9y3/)

Nice big leaves

(http://s25.postimg.cc/6w4eqdorf/IMG_20140529_171959.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6w4eqdorf/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: ScottR on August 21, 2014, 11:26:24 AM
WoW Bob, thanks for posting pic's of Paw Paw's in the wild. I grow a few varieties but always wondered how they grow in wild now thanks to you I have a visual in my head. Best of luck growing out your different varieties. Loved also your taste descriptions I find it hard to describe the complex taste of Paw Paw's but they sure are interesting to say the least! 8) 8) 8) 
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 21, 2014, 12:59:59 PM
Qoppa - Nope. I off to Florence SC for the Southern Fruit Fellowship. I'm running a little late so I will most likely miss the Kiwi Farm Tour. I'll be back Sunday mid day. Let me know if you wanna taste some of these pawpaws, they won't last much longer though there are still a few on the tree.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 01:44:51 PM
Various pics of fruits

(http://s25.postimg.cc/qn189znvf/IMG_20140601_161122.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/qn189znvf/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/ez76ffyqj/IMG_20140601_161908.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ez76ffyqj/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/6eduo9okb/IMG_20140601_160636.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6eduo9okb/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/xilgt3icb/IMG_20140601_155405.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xilgt3icb/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/yv35uzfrv/IMG_20140601_155513.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/yv35uzfrv/)

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 02:21:21 PM
Another area, this small spring fed stream flows down the mountain year round. Apparently trilobas love to be close to water.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/d2agav82j/IMG_20140603_155345.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/d2agav82j/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/cbhq535p7/IMG_20140603_160222.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cbhq535p7/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/9zebl8ihn/IMG_20140603_155727.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9zebl8ihn/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/4u8ipvg63/IMG_20140603_155426.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4u8ipvg63/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/u5htk4e57/IMG_20140603_155745.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/u5htk4e57/)

Close up of the bark
(http://s25.postimg.cc/gaexnwucb/IMG_20140603_155645.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/gaexnwucb/)

Trilobas in the upper right hand corner
(http://s25.postimg.cc/vabvpi0m3/IMG_20140603_160534.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vabvpi0m3/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/vqx3bxod7/IMG_20140603_155526.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vqx3bxod7/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/mhux1tfh7/IMG_20140603_155741.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mhux1tfh7/)

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Zambezi on August 21, 2014, 05:59:12 PM
Nice find Bob!
Beautiful photos. Thanks for sharing them. :)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 10:06:45 PM
Thank you GT, I am not done yet. I spent a lot of time in the brush and put a lot of miles on the vehicle, but I am quite satisfied with the results of my search so far. I hope to get back and taste some of the late season fruits.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 21, 2014, 10:50:16 PM
Here is a pic of a fruit cluster on June 4 and the same cluster on August 10, not a lot of difference.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/ngfvhui6z/IMG_20140604_181912.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ngfvhui6z/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/cuw05ubvf/IMG_20140810_140749.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cuw05ubvf/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Zambezi on August 22, 2014, 01:37:36 PM
Great work so far. It's interesting to see the growth and natural habitat in the wild. So keep it coming!  :)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 26, 2014, 07:36:49 AM
Here is another area. Enjoy :)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/q4k106d97/IMG_20140604_174856.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/q4k106d97/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/bk2y5ciaj/IMG_20140604_180447.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/bk2y5ciaj/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/vwoql2cgr/IMG_20140604_180647.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vwoql2cgr/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/pp8r75rbv/IMG_20140604_175206.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/pp8r75rbv/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/bb5dff5i3/IMG_20140604_183144.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/bb5dff5i3/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/sto0hoxi3/IMG_20140604_182133.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/sto0hoxi3/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/fa76bzjiz/IMG_20140604_180613.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fa76bzjiz/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/6vrjnwihn/IMG_20140604_180042.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6vrjnwihn/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/n81ldmwt7/IMG_20140604_172503.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/n81ldmwt7/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/3tw607fyz/IMG_20140604_181346.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/3tw607fyz/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 26, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
Thanks for the pictures, Bob! I think you've outdone me in your efforts and energy invested in finding wild pawpaws!

Too bad you are back in FL. I am planning to check out my "secret patch" as soon as I can. Last year I wasn't able to find ripe fruit until I believe early October (whether due to 'possums devouring them or ....?). They were the size of small mangos.

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 26, 2014, 09:34:59 PM
Good to hear from you Anthony! The coons and possums are quite effective at fruit removal. There were many trees that had the fruit removed by the time I came back to enjoy them. One tree in particular that I found in Lincoln county, with exceptionally large fruit, was completely clean when I came back. Also there is new competition, I saw an armadillo in Fayetteville! Armadillos in Tennessee!!??
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 27, 2014, 03:42:02 AM
This small scenic creek was hiding some Trilobas as well.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/d4v90g9ln/IMG_20140809_080606.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/d4v90g9ln/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/psb0cyoij/IMG_20140809_081116.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/psb0cyoij/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/fgynkawt7/IMG_20140809_081339.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fgynkawt7/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/lbn8s0zob/IMG_20140809_080738.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/lbn8s0zob/)



Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Coconut on August 27, 2014, 08:04:25 AM
Look like snakehead fishing territory, when are you going to bred a paw paw for the sub tropic so Appalachian like me can feel a little of Home in South Florida? :)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 27, 2014, 12:33:56 PM
Jack, it would be nice to find a suitable breed. I am planning on hitting the woods in south Georgia/ north Florida to find some wild Trilobas for seed to begin the process and have a friend who has a Triloba flowering in zone 9b but it has  not set fruit yet. I have brought some trees with me to Florida to see how they handle it here. I am hopeful about one from Tifton Georgia, but time will tell. I am also letting some grow here to speed up the process from seed to fruit and then they will get a truck ride back to Tn. I also have some seedlings started here in Fl. I know it sounds crazy but what is an enthusiast to do!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 27, 2014, 06:14:51 PM
I was roaming around in middle Tennessee and found a tree just off a river. I gave it a shake and these fell out.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/n7emgxdwb/IMG_20140811_111737.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/n7emgxdwb/)

I cut this open on the spot
(http://s25.postimg.cc/qcz874wij/IMG_20140811_112119.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/qcz874wij/)

After a day of ripening further
(http://s25.postimg.cc/94sp1y8ij/IMG_20140813_040356.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/94sp1y8ij/)
I have read descriptions that compare these fruits to banana, but I found this particular fruit to taste like a banana pudding with a hint of vanilla.  It wasn't as complex as the first fruits on this post but did have a very good flavor.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/rqqv2fvrv/IMG_20140811_114435.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/rqqv2fvrv/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Coconut on August 27, 2014, 07:48:07 PM
Jack, it would be nice to find a suitable breed. I am planning on hitting the woods in south Georgia/ north Florida to find some wild Trilobas for seed to begin the process and have a friend who has a Triloba flowering in zone 9b but it has  not set fruit yet. I have brought some trees with me to Florida to see how they handle it here. I am hopeful about one from Tifton Georgia, but time will tell. I am also letting some grow here to speed up the process from seed to fruit and then they will get a truck ride back to Tn. I also have some seedlings started here in Fl. I know it sounds crazy but what is an enthusiast to do!

I am glad to see some one with passion like you for paw paw; I scrounge the world for a. Squamosa & its derivatives to develop my passion of trial & tribulation border on the eccentric & stupidity; in the end it paid off.  Your compassion for our native fruit give me great hope that finally it will be brought to light how wonderful this All American Native Fruit  Cherish by my Choctaw Ancestors will be free of its mississippian woodland obscurity.  The Great Spirit will guide you in your quest as we cheer you on to your excellent discovery & creating something Magical! Maybe I should plant some in Royal Palm. ;D
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on August 27, 2014, 09:36:17 PM
Mr. Eric Duckworth fruited several Pawpaw trees every year in San Mateo--- southwest of Saint Augustine and east of Palatka.
His Pawpaws were all growing in partial shade from very tall trees.  I visited him several times back in the 90's.  I don't know if he is still living--- he was in his 80's then.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on August 28, 2014, 12:26:06 AM
Thank you for the info Har!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on September 25, 2014, 12:19:18 PM
It is interesting how big some leaves can be.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/r8j4naexn/IMG_20140606_165136.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/r8j4naexn/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/eh9s47l0b/IMG_20140606_165206.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/eh9s47l0b/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 25, 2014, 04:53:15 PM
wow, that tree in the second pic is pretty!!!

i notice the leaf size changes with my annonas, depending on time of year, (when they flower, the leaves get smaller), also of course more sunlight makes for a smaller leaf.

and of course there are always varieties that have larger leaves.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on September 25, 2014, 07:30:39 PM
Adam, both pics are the same tree. I have so many more pics to post of Trilobas. I have just been so busy that I have neglected this thread!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 25, 2014, 10:46:40 PM
Bob, you didn't miss much at the secret pawpaw patch I mentioned to you off the Natchez Trace. I went over the weekend and only found three fruits. Last year there were many more. Fortunately one of the fruits was very ripe on the tree and was ready to eat right away. It had a wonderful aroma and the best flavor of any wild pawpaw I've tasted. Bubblegum/cherimoya is what came to mind.
One other fruit ripened well on my counter and was equally good. No "gamey" taste like in others I've had.
I put some of it in some kombucha I was bottling. We'll see how that tastes.
I also did not get sick from eating these like I have before. Not sure if because it was a small amount or because I was careful to avoid the seed "casing" which has off-flavors and which I suspected of leading to my nausea before.

On a positive note, we discovered quite a populous patch on my parents' property in Clarksville. Only a hundred paces from their back door, we found several trees and even a few fruit. They were able to eat them and seemed impressed!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on September 26, 2014, 08:15:38 AM
Bubble gum and cherimoya sounds like a very good flavor combo. I will have to check out that area one day and see for myself. I have been looking around Florida for Asiminas but am less familiar with the terrain and they seem even more elusive down here.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on January 13, 2015, 12:45:08 AM
Here are some pics from August. This small tree had some fruits.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/vs45aej6j/IMG_20140809_082943.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vs45aej6j/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/49zsjpuor/IMG_20140809_083106.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/49zsjpuor/)

Triloba tree extending over the creek, with fruits also.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/kibffge57/IMG_20140809_083540.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/kibffge57/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/mo5q9yhln/IMG_20140809_084428.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mo5q9yhln/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/fv5ddoqsb/IMG_20140809_083300.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fv5ddoqsb/)

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on January 13, 2015, 01:00:31 AM
I looked over a few spots and was surprised to see some trilobas pushing buds. I didn't think there would be any action until spring.

(http://s25.postimg.cc/jwr1x38gr/IMG_20141224_115532.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jwr1x38gr/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/o75psodjv/IMG_20141224_115812.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/o75psodjv/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/l1l42guxn/IMG_20141224_121528.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l1l42guxn/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: jabotica on January 13, 2015, 05:25:18 PM
I was in Clarksville Tn on Thanksgiven. Visited Dunbar Cave State Natural Area.
The park has a list of the trees,which includes Asimina Triloba All I found was Osage Orange
I will check it out In the summer
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on January 13, 2015, 05:56:14 PM
i planted a pair of poor man's banana by a wet area in my yard....they seem happy so far...i can see the new growth wants to bust out.
(http://s17.postimg.cc/t0tqw7o63/IMG_0510.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/t0tqw7o63/)

(http://s17.postimg.cc/4n022bggr/IMG_0511.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4n022bggr/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on January 18, 2015, 03:07:09 PM
Here is another area where trees are pushing buds.
 (http://s25.postimg.cc/nvtbd13ff/IMG_20150101_160449.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/nvtbd13ff/)

My glove is at the bottom of the tree for scale.
(http://s25.postimg.cc/ozdfozo2j/IMG_20150101_160603.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ozdfozo2j/)

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on January 18, 2015, 03:36:50 PM
And another.
(http://s25.postimg.cc/og8cfpwnv/IMG_20141231_155531.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/og8cfpwnv/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/wgmn47dln/IMG_20141231_155554_1.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wgmn47dln/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/eruwcl1uj/IMG_20141231_155458.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/eruwcl1uj/)

The same tree in December and this past June.
(http://s25.postimg.cc/cbt2yqjrv/IMG_20141231_155405.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cbt2yqjrv/)

(http://s25.postimg.cc/6owq19h97/IMG_20140604_183144.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6owq19h97/)

It is interesting to see an annona that can take the weather.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on March 26, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
To all the members in the eastern portion of the US and Canada, get out there and find those pawpaws! This would be a good time to start looking for those flowering trees. If you have some creeks or rivers near you there are probably some pawpaws waiting to be found. Take pics and do some pollinating yourself!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on March 31, 2015, 01:14:13 PM
I went on a hunt yesterday and came away totally stoked.

Prior to last fall, the only pawpaw trees i'd managed to find were in far-flung or hard to access areas. Then on a hike in our county park (5 min drive from here) last fall, I found a few pawpaws.

Yesterday I went back to the park to check on flowers. The trees I had previously found did have buds that were not quite or barely opening.

But the bigger news is I found a shuge "patch" of trees (or is it ONE tree?!? LOL) on a southwest-facing slope of a hill. Most of the trees were small and had no flower buds, but as I kept walking down the slope, I found some much more mature trees that were pretty well loaded with flowers. These were at the edge of the woods, where there is a clearing. These get lots more sun so are much happier.

Finally I have a good supply of very accessible wild pawpaws! I will be checking every few days. I may have to come back here and/or PM some experts when it comes to trying to pollinate them.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on March 31, 2015, 02:33:12 PM
Excellent! Keep us posted and pictures are a must!  Being that close to your house take us through the season with pictures, please! You could purchase a small tub of chicken livers and spread those around the area to attract flies for pollination.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on March 31, 2015, 05:38:55 PM
Excellent! Keep us posted and pictures are a must!  Being that close to your house take us through the season with pictures, please! You could purchase a small tub of chicken livers and spread those around the area to attract flies for pollination.

Will do...I tried to take a few yesterday but the iPhone wasn't cooperating (can't focus on close objects GRRR).

Secretly collecting and depositing roadkill beneath the trees did actually cross my mind...chicken livers would be a lot easier, since all I have to put stuff in is the family minivan  ;D
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on March 31, 2015, 05:50:03 PM
Excellent! Keep us posted and pictures are a must!  Being that close to your house take us through the season with pictures, please! You could purchase a small tub of chicken livers and spread those around the area to attract flies for pollination.

Will do...I tried to take a few yesterday but the iPhone wasn't cooperating (can't focus on close objects GRRR).

Secretly collecting and depositing roadkill beneath the trees did actually cross my mind...chicken livers would be a lot easier, since all I have to put stuff in is the family minivan  ;D



Now I know you are from Tennessee! I actually typed out an entire paragragh and decided to delete the part about utilizing road kill (some may find it unappealing). I however would be on the scout for the first piece of asphalt jerky that I could find. It has been mentioned to hang it in the tree but I wouldn't do that because you might get a bear that decides to tear the tree up to get to it. If you notice in my pics I use my hand as a back drop so the focus doesn't go past the intended shot.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 02, 2015, 07:41:12 PM
Went back out today and found that about 20% of the flower buds had turned purple and started to open:

(http://s16.postimg.cc/du70zkirl/IMG_4996.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/du70zkirl/)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/4axc63v9d/IMG_4997.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4axc63v9d/)

The hand-behind-the-subject trick worked for getting focused pictures! I didn't think i'd had to do that in the past, but oh well!
I guess I was surprised at how small the flowers are. I don't know if it's all pawpaw flowers or only because these are perhaps not in ideal conditions.

This is the biggest and most flower-covered tree, but unfortunately for any hand-pollinating most of the flowers are out of reach.

(http://s16.postimg.cc/6tj16sgzl/IMG_4998.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6tj16sgzl/)

None of the flowers were actually mature (at either stage) yet, I don't think.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on April 02, 2015, 07:52:30 PM
Great pictures! Is there a stream nearby?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 02, 2015, 11:02:28 PM
Great pictures! Is there a stream nearby?
Not directly nearby...perhaps 50 feet away there is a very small ephemeral stream that's dry at the moment.
But definitely creeks/streams are common areas to find these. I've found other patches, however, not near water at all, such as in David Crockett State Park in Lawrenceburg.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 14, 2015, 07:42:43 PM
Finally got back out to my new nearby pawpaw patch to check the flowers.
What a gorgeous sight - I was as giddy as a kid on Christmas morning.
I found flowers in all different stages. Here are the pictures. I would love to hear the experts weigh-in on which pictures (A through E) represent which stages, and whether any of the stages are viable for either pollen collection or deposition.
Some flowers that I did not photograph were tighter and smaller but still had visible reproductive parts. From Ed's descriptions on the Asiminaholics Anonymous thread, I assume these would be the ideal stage for pollen reception. But I'm interested particularly if any of the pictures below show receptive flowers, because there weren't many of the tighter/less developed flowers.

Also as a side note, I saw many flowers crawling with ants, and some with spiders. I've never heard reference to either of these arthropods being pollinators of the pawpaw. Anyone have an opinion?


(http://s16.postimg.cc/czubfym75/IMG_5157.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/czubfym75/)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/jp0uvz7j5/IMG_5159.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jp0uvz7j5/)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/c6hpncg69/IMG_5167.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/c6hpncg69/)

(http://s16.postimg.cc/mhu2g07vl/IMG_5169.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mhu2g07vl/)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on April 14, 2015, 10:53:19 PM
A and C appear to be male stage, with pollen available.  E looks receptive.

I have worked with other Asimina species, but not with Asimina triloba.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: edself65 on April 15, 2015, 01:21:47 AM
I agree with Har. I would actually pollinate even prior to the stage of flower E. The rest are definitely male stage ready for you to harvest pollen and E is hours away from being ready to harvest pollen.

Ed

A and C appear to be male stage, with pollen available.  E looks receptive.

I have worked with other Asimina species, but not with Asimina triloba.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 15, 2015, 09:54:44 AM
Thanks, gentlemen!

My guesses were that A and C were ready for pollen collection (i.e. mature male stage); B and D were maybe receptive (anthers not yet mature, but not sure if still too late for female receptivity); and E was probably too late to be receptive but anthers were still immature (sort of an in-between stage, like Ed mentioned.)

So I guess my main dilemma is how to spot the female receptive stage.
Is it any flower that looks younger than A and C or even E?

When I was in the patch, I just grabbed pollen from flowers that looked like A and C and spread them to any flowers that did NOT look like A and C  ;D ;D
I guess that's a cover-all-the-bases method, but I'd still like to have a more precise understanding.

Also - any thoughts on whether ants/spiders are viable natural pollinators?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on April 15, 2015, 10:59:43 AM
Anthony, you have your own pawpaw laboratory. Pollinate away and see what happens, at best we will all have a chance to learn vicariously from your experience. Thank you for your time and devotion.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 15, 2015, 11:46:24 AM
Anthony, you have your own pawpaw laboratory. Pollinate away and see what happens, at best we will all have a chance to learn vicariously from your experience. Thank you for your time and devotion.

Thanks, Bob! Yeah, seeing all those flowers and trying to "make babies" was one of the coolest things ever for me. My kids think i'm nuts (even my forum-member son who got me started on fruit), and I'm not sure I blame 'em!
I don't really know why i'm so crazy about this fruit, but I am.
Well, I guess I do know why, but I even surprise myself with how obsessed I am.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: edself65 on April 15, 2015, 12:28:38 PM
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.msg182328#msg182328 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.msg182328#msg182328)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 15, 2015, 02:32:00 PM
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.msg182328#msg182328 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.msg182328#msg182328)

Thanks, Ed! I had read your comment there a while ago but didn't get to review it prior to hitting the field.
What you say there pretty well seals it up - for me the key about receptive stage is that the petals are tighter and smaller. Unfortunately most of the flowers I pollinated were more fully open and dark like those in the pictures I posted. There were a few that looked more exactly like the picture in your post.
The perfectionist in me wants to know exactly when the flowers are no longer receptive but that's probably unknowable in an absolute sense :)
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: edself65 on April 15, 2015, 05:53:39 PM
Good luck! I have been hand pollinating pawpaw flowers for several years and I always look for the bright green interior and slightly opened flowers. Once the petals flare out and the interior color is dim I don't consider that flower receptive to pollen. Just my experience.

 Ed
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 16, 2015, 08:58:51 PM
Good luck! I have been hand pollinating pawpaw flowers for several years and I always look for the bright green interior and slightly opened flowers. Once the petals flare out and the interior color is dim I don't consider that flower receptive to pollen. Just my experience.

 Ed
Sounds great, Ed!
I went back to my patch today to do some more pollinating. I wanted to pay closer attention to the flowers to look for ones similar to your top photo in the A.A. thread.
I definitely found some flowers that more closely or exactly resembled the flower in that picture. I will say that they weren't as abundant as later-stage flowers. I do think I missed the biggest window of opportunity by a few days (I knew I needed to get out there but was too busy.)
I think most of the flowers I pollinated the first time were probably past the ideal stage.
Today I definitely noticed flowers with the "glistening" stigmas that you described. I just wish there were more of them!
It seems to me now, based on my extremely limited experience, that the receptive stage likely doesn't last too long.  :o
***
As for my visit today: I went further up the hill and was thrilled to find several more trees sporting decent amounts of flowers. I also took some pictures that I wanted to post for feedback:

(http://s16.postimg.cc/ufkpq3ar5/IMG_5175.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ufkpq3ar5/)
Assuming this is the remains of an un-pollinated flower?

(http://s9.postimg.cc/4nvcnmgx7/IMG_5177.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4nvcnmgx7/)
This appears to be a successfully pollinated flower that's winding-down and preparing to drop its petals, etc. True?

(http://s14.postimg.cc/66cwtepjx/IMG_5178.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/66cwtepjx/)
Are these teeny-tiny pawpaw fruits? I sure hope so - there were lots of these around.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on April 16, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
Those are pawpaws forming in the last pic. Glad to hear you found some more trees close by.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 16, 2015, 09:41:42 PM
Those are pawpaws forming in the last pic. Glad to hear you found some more trees close by.

Thanks!
Would there be any benefit to thinning any of the small fruits?
As you can see, I am just using this patch to kind of experiment and learn hands-on. The only fruit I've had experience growing is Fig, and we all know there's not much to that!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on April 16, 2015, 10:22:18 PM
The only way that I would interfere with nature is pollinating. I would let all the fruits that form do their thing and watch the process unfold. Many of the trees that I saw while in TN that had fruit on them in the early stages would be all gone or considerably less when I went back later on. This is only an opinion though.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 18, 2015, 12:52:56 PM
I checked-in on my pawpaw patch yesterday and came away a bit crestfallen.

I only spotted about 5 fruits among scores of trees.

I could swear that the last time I was there, before everything fully leafed-out, there were several clusters of baby fruits on the trees.
So either they all dropped or I just couldn't see them (it is hard to spot pawpaw fruit in the canopy thanks to their green coloration).
We did have literally 3 weeks with no rain recently. Perhaps this induced a drop?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on May 19, 2015, 09:51:12 AM
Extrapolating from experience with Annonas, I'd say your supposition about drought is a good bet.

Other possibilities:

Inadequate pollination [not enough viable seeds to merit fruit retention];

Mineral deficiency [Calcium, Boron, Zinc....].
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 19, 2015, 11:27:44 AM
Extrapolating from experience with Annonas, I'd say your supposition about drought is a good bet.

Other possibilities:

Inadequate pollination [not enough viable seeds to merit fruit retention];

Mineral deficiency [Calcium, Boron, Zinc....].

Thanks, Har!

I will of course keep checking on the trees, but my expectations have been lowered significantly. Will have to check other patches I know of which are unfortunately farther away.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on June 30, 2015, 11:32:02 AM
Went back to the local pawpaw patch couple days ago and was pleased to find (now that the fruits are bigger and easier to see) a total of around 10 fruits.

They were the size of racquet balls, approximately.

So now my crazy mind is wondering what, if anything, I can do to preserve these for my eating pleasure rather than some 'possum.

Would it make sense to put some netting around them to catch them when they drop? Not sure if that would deter a hungry marsupial....
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: plantrant on July 07, 2015, 08:39:17 AM
One way to disinvite hungry paw paw eaters is to enclose the unripe fruit in a plastic grocery bag that is tied above the fruit branch with the bag loop handles. The fluffy plastic bag does not look like food, especially since the colored bag is hard to see through. A small hole at the lowest part of the bag's bottom will allow any rainfall that enters from the top to drain. When the fruit ripens, it falls into the bag. When checking on the ripening progress, you can lightly squeeze the fruit through the bag to see if it is beginning to soften. I don't pick them until they are ripe enough to fall into the bag, but I guess that you may choose to break them off if soft enough when hiking out to the woods to check them. Of course the bags will attract the attention of other 2 legged wanderers out hiking.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 07, 2015, 10:42:54 AM
One way to disinvite hungry paw paw eaters is to enclose the unripe fruit in a plastic grocery bag that is tied above the fruit branch with the bag loop handles. The fluffy plastic bag does not look like food, especially since the colored bag is hard to see through. A small hole at the lowest part of the bag's bottom will allow any rainfall that enters from the top to drain. When the fruit ripens, it falls into the bag. When checking on the ripening progress, you can lightly squeeze the fruit through the bag to see if it is beginning to soften. I don't pick them until they are ripe enough to fall into the bag, but I guess that you may choose to break them off if soft enough when hiking out to the woods to check them. Of course the bags will attract the attention of other 2 legged wanderers out hiking.

Perfect - thanks! I will perhaps give that a try. Hopefully not an issue since these are off the beaten path a bit
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Delvi83 on July 18, 2015, 09:52:20 AM
The fruit is half or less in Size compared to grafted plant fruits ?! But it's fantastic to see Asimina grow wild....is it common or rare to see it wild in United States?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on July 18, 2015, 10:59:41 AM
The fruit is half or less in Size compared to grafted plant fruits ?! But it's fantastic to see Asimina grow wild....is it common or rare to see it wild in United States?

They are around if you know where to look; river banks, low lying areas that receive occasional flooding, higher altitude shaded areas that stay moist and in mountainous areas where spring fed streams flow year round. The issue is that most people aren't familiar with the fruit, even in areas where it flourishes. The plants that I have found have fruit that vary in size and in flavor too.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 24, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
I went out and managed to bag (i.e. wrap with a plastic shopping bag) about 7 fruits.

The fruits had a nice shape but are still pretty small....3 inches long at the most, I'd say.

So not having ever been able to watch these fruits mature, I am wondering - how much do these fruits tend to grow as they reach full maturity? Do they grow steadily or have a late surge in growth? Or maybe these are as big as they'll get?

Obviously time will tell but I was just curious...

P.S. I found 3 maypop vines and another large-looking stand of pawpaw in the park that I had not noticed before. Didn't have time to scope it out...
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Delvi83 on August 24, 2015, 04:37:17 AM
Is Asimina triloba an invasive plant? How does it colonize new area? Does it spread fast?
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 24, 2015, 03:12:41 PM
Is Asimina triloba an invasive plant? How does it colonize new area? Does it spread fast?

No, not invasive. In the wild I think it's safe to say it spreads clonally via root suckers more so than via seed (fruit in the wild is somewhat uncommon, at least in my experience in Tennessee).

No, it does not spread fast. It's too slow-growing to be considered invasive and it requires shade in the early stages which, I suppose, limits its ability to spread. 

As far as colonizing new areas, that would have to be via seed deposition by animals, I suppose.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Delvi83 on August 27, 2015, 07:51:52 AM
I thought it was invasive for the via root sucker propagation....but how far can you find e new sucker?

The need of shadow could also be an advantage, think an underwood (or should i say underbrush?) habit....Asimina is one of the few that can thrive well
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: From the sea on September 14, 2015, 02:48:16 PM
my buddy in West Virginia just sent me 4 wild ones from his property, just have to say wow! apparently he has a lot of fruit this year.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on September 14, 2015, 06:36:14 PM
my buddy in West Virginia just sent me 4 wild ones from his property, just have to say wow! apparently he has a lot of fruit this year.

How would you describe the flavors? I know they can vary widely. While in Tennessee I noticed no two trees I found tasted even remotely the same, even though they were all excellent except for one particular tree. I like them so much I had to bring a "Sunflower" to the island. I have no expectations of fruit but it is an attractive plant in it's own right.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: From the sea on September 14, 2015, 07:58:26 PM
They taste kind of like a banana, but there was this soursop flavor in there with out the sour and fiber. it took me 2 fruit to figure out the soursop thing, my description is not doing it justice. I am going to plant the seeds and my buddy is bringing me a root sucker to try as well.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Bob407 on September 14, 2015, 08:21:43 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 14, 2015, 09:12:32 PM
All the trees i so gleefully attempted to pollinate and the fruits I later bagged for protection ended up yielding precious few fruits.

All I got out of the whole deal were 3 small fruits. There had been 2 really big (for a wild tree anyway) fruits hanging out of reach but they were gone on my most recent visit.

Animals had raided all my bags except one.

But the 3 I had were good....they just make me want even more. The flavor is really indescribable. It is definitely a blend of flavors but completely unique among all the fruits i've tasted.
Oddly I get very little banana flavor...to me it's more cherimoya/pineapple/jackfruit/mango.

I may finally plant my seedlings next year but will also try again to pollinate these wild trees. I keep finding more.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: From the sea on September 15, 2015, 09:40:12 AM
the banana is mostly in the smell and texture but it is a hard flavor to describe very tropical.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 22, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
the banana is mostly in the smell and texture but it is a hard flavor to describe very tropical.

I ate a couple more wild fruits today and for the first time (perhaps through power of suggestion!) I detected some banana, but artificial banana flavor. That's a great flavor so it's all good!

Shame the flesh to seed ratio is so low in most wild fruits. Really makes me want to grow a selected variety.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: googer on November 03, 2015, 11:54:36 PM
Hello, all. I was lucky enough to stumble across this site recently, and I am impressed with your efforts - especially Triloba Tracker's - in collecting and disseminating all this information about A. triloba.

I had a bear of a time finding any fruits this season. I had no trouble finding their clonal groves, but the fruits were extremely difficult to find. I eventually managed to locate five small fruits by the tail end of the season. The fruit was somewhat sweet, but very rich - almost like dark chocolate, extremely different from any flavor description I've ever read. Overall, inferior fruit compared to the pawpaws I tried last year that got me hooked on this fruit in the first place. The trees seemed to grow pretty vigorously - so I'm cold-treating the seeds for the winter and hoping to get some good rootstock out of them.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on November 04, 2015, 11:49:21 AM
Googer - thanks for the shout out

Sorry you had bad luck this year. I didn't have much myself - kind of a letdown, but more motivation for next year.
The fruits you did find definitely sound off - maybe too ripe, hard to say.

Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: googer on November 04, 2015, 12:59:17 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit too far gone. The runts I discovered were found in mid to late September, definitely later fruits. Fortunately, I know what really good pawpaw tastes like, so it didn't put me off too much. I was more interested in getting some seeds this year anyway.

I'm surprised you didn't have much luck though, considering your attempts to pollinate the trees by hand. I'm definitely going to be trying my hand at manual pollination come next spring. But I wonder why you didn't get many fruit. Do you think that most of the flowers didn't take to pollination, or was it simply critters beating you to the fruit? I'm aiming to have the local trees positively laden with pawpaw by next August, so any pointers you or anyone else have would be very welcome.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on November 09, 2015, 12:45:48 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit too far gone. The runts I discovered were found in mid to late September, definitely later fruits. Fortunately, I know what really good pawpaw tastes like, so it didn't put me off too much. I was more interested in getting some seeds this year anyway.

I'm surprised you didn't have much luck though, considering your attempts to pollinate the trees by hand. I'm definitely going to be trying my hand at manual pollination come next spring. But I wonder why you didn't get many fruit. Do you think that most of the flowers didn't take to pollination, or was it simply critters beating you to the fruit? I'm aiming to have the local trees positively laden with pawpaw by next August, so any pointers you or anyone else have would be very welcome.

Yeah, overall the hand pollination was not all that successful. The critters did beat me to a few fruits, but mostly I think it was just low fruit set in general.
Here are my thoughts:
1) First timer effect - I think a lot of the female-stage flowers I was dabbing were not actually receptive. I think the receptive stage is a lot earlier than I realized.
2) self-incompatibility - I was using flowers from the same tree in many cases. Plus if you consider that pawpaws are clonal, even several feet away I could've been working on the same "tree." (assuming any self-incompatibility would extend to sucker-produced trees)
3) Dry spell in early summer - we had a wicked dry/hot spell that may have caused several fruits to drop. I didn't count, but early-on I thought I saw many tiny baby fruits on the trees. Much later when I went back to check, many were gone. So I think several fruits just dropped or were aborted for some reason.

My plans for next year are to deliberately cross-pollinate from different pawpaw patches. I also won't bother with bagging the fruit - the varmints tore right thru it anyway. Maybe mesh cages around them would work :)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on November 09, 2015, 03:37:27 PM
All three of your points look valid.

There may be a fourth one:  deficiency of Boron or of Zinc.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on November 09, 2015, 03:59:59 PM
All three of your points look valid.

There may be a fourth one:  deficiency of Boron or of Zinc.

Thanks, Har!
Good to know. hmmm I could sprinkle some Mule Team Borax around the trees!
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Guanabanus on November 09, 2015, 08:02:39 PM
Careful!  20-mule Borax was the first commercial herbicide! 

You will need a specific recommended rate, to mix in water and spray on the ground.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Triloba Tracker on November 09, 2015, 08:15:25 PM
Careful!  20-mule Borax was the first commercial herbicide! 

You will need a specific recommended rate, to mix in water and spray on the ground.

Ah yes! Gotcha..I wasn't entirely serious but definitely a good reminder.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Francis_Eric on October 12, 2019, 07:36:17 AM
Anyone else been Foraging this year
 found one last year with a pineapple taste (90% seed)

didn't go back this year to that particular spot (at pawpaw fest)
since I was with some people I meet
(nor did I refind one with 4 seeds (Normal taste but could next year as took a different path with no wild rose, bier bushes )

I am trying to breed / graft types
any late/early  types to extend the growing season
also wanted to go back to New Orleans as I know a spot 10 miles south of New Orleans (NOLA)
(information lost in my email , but too late this year I think where Duckworth originated )

Also interested In Asimina ( Flowers)species from FLORIDA as I think it woiuld be great to breed root stock
Apple has many root stocks(see MidFEx), (edit) using M27 or P22 root stock)
and a dwarf or a tiny yard with 100's of pawpaw types sounds enticing.

I'd like to do this with Pawpaw Any help with flowers this spring please Help
http://www.midfex.org/App_Pages/Yale/intro.aspx (http://www.midfex.org/App_Pages/Yale/intro.aspx)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Francis_Eric on October 12, 2019, 01:17:02 PM
May have made Misspoken  about Duckworth cultivar ---- (EDIT or maybe not seedling of Louisiana Plant)
(sorry read it didn't look at the spread sheet. before typing )


Just saw on KYSU (looking up blue stain disease)
that That was selected By Eric Duckworth in San mateo Florida (i saw LA. in other places (edit) guess I was somewhat right )
50 miles East of Gainesville Florida (northern Florida)-- ( there is that Nursery that sells them in Gainesville FL.)

Although I may have found a starting place to graft to or breed Asimina triloba (selection ) for my Dwarf idea root stock
Duckworth b grows Only to a   Shurb (wonder if it's part dwarf pawpaw A. parviflora)
(of coarse I know of all the other species A.parviflora dwarf pawpaw)
(book smart, but sadly no experience Yet in 2019) even  A. manasota
http://www.botanicalexplorer.com/current.html (http://www.botanicalexplorer.com/current.html)

Cool they said there have been Triploids hybrids have also been reported
usually diploid 2n=2x =18
See taxonomy in link.

I know there are 2 Asimina Triloba  KYSU (, and neal Peterson) looked at)
that where graft Incompatable ,

http://kysu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PomperLayne2005.pdf (http://kysu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PomperLayne2005.pdf)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: usirius on October 14, 2019, 03:34:27 PM
@Francis_Eric : Interesting thought creating dwarf common Paw Paws by grafting on weak-growing rootstocks and to plant so many cultivars on narrowest space. But do hybridization rootstocks still have to be cultivated?  The simplest would be to graft A. triloba onto the weak-growing A. parviflora. Should be compatible, because both Asimina species are very similar and can also be hybridized. I'm in the process of attracting several Dwarf Paw Paws plants, and in case I will have enough plants, I could start Trials of grafting. Of course I am knowing that most Dwarf Paw Paws are not quite as hardy than the Common Paw Paw....so this would make it necessary to create new hardy dwarf rootstocks by hybridization from  A. triloba with any Dwarf Paw Paw. As said there are hybrids of A. triloba and A. parviflora already existing. Some days ago I got some seeds  from such a hybrid from a good friend. I will grow theem to see whether they split genetically into their parents or maintain hybrid characteristics, in particular dwarfism and winter hardiness.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Francis_Eric on October 14, 2019, 03:56:26 PM
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )

Cliff England has some seeds

I am not certain what to se as the Mother plant
As I am just experimenting (and it has been a while since I've read up Sometimes It sticks in your head better when you do it)
I was suppose to travel this year to breed somewhere. (I have good Intuition )

I would cross though A with B = c (the Offspring)

Take c the baby  , and back cross it with A or B

Year One
I may even Take Asimina Triloba As a Mother (get ) C from pollen from A. Parviflora
----------Take Asimina Parviflora As a Mother (get)  c from pollen from A. triloba
the resulting Cc hybrids with different mothers (as pollen donors) cross those, and see what happens


I am not certain , but I also have some other Idea's , (but they are pretty out there)
 , but why not , and just grow them in the firest for the fun of it.

Like take the seediest Type, and cross with the seediest type
back cross with the first seedy type

Maybe Nature would revert back to a Non seedy type
Or maybe it would be useful for something other then fruit (like root stock)
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

There is a book online (free 100 years old)
that states when a plants population is being polluted with the same pollen
IN breeding I mean through many generations

The offspring will eventually Completely change around
it's Natures way of having Genetic diversity
(It was about persimmons though.)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Francis_Eric on October 14, 2019, 04:09:59 PM
I know Jerry Lehman before He passed Crossed them (dwarf)
He said He tore the Parviflora Out , He was trying to keep his seeds as (I mena Open pollinated As best as posible , and didn't want Him selected ones getting Any Parviflora )
(bad tasting fruit does make better wine, and liquor however -- So maybe breed bad fruit)

I mean't to say Jerry Lehman had A. parviflora , and they get -10 F (or -22 C)
We get -20 F (or -28 C)

Not to mention that polar Vortex we had (5 years ago I was gone ) , and last year
I know it was like -40 F

I only meet Him Twice , but I am sure Jerry would of let me cross some of his trees
He was so close (unfortunately None of my A Parviflora where any good seeds)

I mean't to say Bad tasting fruit Make better wine
Not in reference to my Asimina Triloba, and parviflora cross idea
, but to try to breed bitter tasting fruit Intentionally
(some people do like em Black, and bitter I like bitter , bt they taste like Burn't Marshmallow to be
Kinda like hop tea boiled to long, but hey does well in beer (I'm no beer IPA maker (yet) just like bitter tea )
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: Francis_Eric on October 14, 2019, 04:19:10 PM
@Francis_Eric : Interesting thought creating dwarf common Paw Paws by grafting on weak-growing rootstocks and to plant so many cultivars on narrowest space. But do hybridization rootstocks still have to be cultivated?

Oh Grow the seeds Snap the root in half, and get a clone like that
Keep the snapped half in a zip lock bag with air (puffed ) inside the bag sealed to raise the humidity.

Did it after snapped the seed part by accident they will re grow (a experiment I done many times)
KYSU even has something about clones from a 2 month cutting of root (mine where not that old)

People gather the root suckers , but haven't learned on doing this large scale yet, but root clone is a start
maybe if someone could do tissue culture .

KYSU tells they haven't yet, but they do Use sunflower for there root stocks so that doesn't make sense to me?
unless they have a large amount of Sunflower Pawpaw , and gather the Runners from each tree.
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: usirius on October 14, 2019, 04:34:36 PM
Interesting Posts!
The idea of cutting roots to generate clones I think I will try on common triloba seedlings, - I have many of them - to gain experiences.

I just have seen in another forum for about one year ago there are also other fruti growers who have the thought to graft a common Asimina on a dwarf Asimina as rootstock and they also had the question conserning incompatibility:

https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/blueberry-home/324916-grafting-regular-pawpaw-to-dwarf-asiminia-parviflora (https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/blueberry-home/324916-grafting-regular-pawpaw-to-dwarf-asiminia-parviflora)
Title: Re: Asimina Trilobas in the wild
Post by: will2358 on October 20, 2019, 08:06:34 PM
I wish the pictures were showing. I bought 2 PawPaws from Stan Mckenzie http://mckenzie-farms.com/fruits.htm (http://mckenzie-farms.com/fruits.htm) I can hardly wait until they fruit. I have some seed also.