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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus seedlings, some odd observations.
« on: November 09, 2017, 07:56:43 PM »
I've found the best way to germinate citrus seeds is to use a three step process. First sprout them wrapped in a moist paper towel in a sealed plastic bag. This may take about 1-2 weeks. Then carefully plant the sprouts  in a seed germination tray with a covered lid to hold humidity. Then after 3 or 4 more weeks the seedling will be ready to move into a plastic cup. If you use a clear plastic one it will be easier to gage soil moisture levels. (At this stage it may be best to keep the cups inside a growing tent enclosure to hold heat and humidity)

If you leave the seedlings in the germination tray too long many of them will start to suffer root rot because the soil is continually too moist. But this contained humidity also helps guarantee they survive and thrive in the earliest stage of their life. Another reason you can't leave them there too long is because there is limited soil area for root growth. Moving the seeds three different times takes a lot of work, and each time it's done it has to be done carefully, but it's the method that gives the best results and has the highest survival rates.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: November 03, 2017, 05:48:14 PM »
At the very end of October the temperature early morning outside was 44, 55 inside the greenhouse.
This morning, November 3, there was a surprise: the ground was covered in snow. It's very unusual for snow to fall this early in the year, usually any snowfall is preceded by two months of rain.

Here's a yuzu in the early fallen snow

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Upgraded cold frames for growing trees.
« on: October 26, 2017, 03:35:22 PM »
SoCal2warm, Im worried about it getting too hot in your cold frame.
Not really a worry. Where this is located it's completely overcast 80% of the time in the Winter. Without that direct sun the temperature gradient between inside and outside isn't that high, maybe 6 degrees at most. Ironically it's the chance sunny days we have to watch out for, because when the sky is completely clear that means there's no moisture and cloud cover to prevent the temperature from dropping at night. It dropped down to 19 to 15 degrees last Winter three different times, each of those nights followed a completely clear and sunny day.


Here's three of a very rare variety:

It's a seedling of what was believed to be a [CiTemple edible x Ichang papeda] x Minneola Tangelo
(CiTemple is a citrange with Temple orange that was considered to be especially edible)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Arctic Frost / Orange Frost Satsuma?
« on: October 22, 2017, 09:23:49 PM »
A little bland (more so than a Satsuma from a young tree), often 1 or 2 seeds, but otherwise not bad. If we're talking flavor subtleties it probably takes a bit more after a tangerine than a Satsuma (which I don't think is particularly a good thing). Pretty much like a regular mandarin though maybe a little on the subpar side.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: October 20, 2017, 09:03:15 PM »

Here's four seedlings of Oroblanco:

They have a bit of a winged petiole, unlike the grapefruit seedlings I'm growing.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: October 19, 2017, 11:28:35 PM »

Here's three of a really rare variety.
It's either ([trifoliate x Temple orange] x C. ichangensis) x Minneola Tangelo, or it's Minneola x C. ichangensis x Temple orange. There may have been a little mix up so its exact origin is in doubt.

I think this is only hardy to zone 8 but the fruit quality is supposed to be pretty good.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: October 16, 2017, 04:38:10 PM »

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Upgraded cold frames for growing trees.
« on: October 16, 2017, 04:15:45 PM »

That's a Satsuma mandarin in there, and although kind of flimsy this should be more than suitable for zone 8. Also notice there are some water containers inside to help hold heat.

These are 3 of them

Citrus General Discussion / Re: What The Grower Gets
« on: October 04, 2017, 12:03:43 AM »
In other words, even if the cost of labor to pick those oranges doubled, it probably wouldn't have a significant effect on the overall price of orange juice you buy at the supermarket.

The oranges themselves account for only a tiny fraction of the price of the end product. There's distribution, processing, retail...
Another reason why, even though the mass production farming of oranges turns out yield a very low price unit cost, it can still be practical to grow your own fruit. Right from the tree to your table cuts out the distribution and retail costs.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: breeding cold hardy pomelo
« on: September 30, 2017, 05:54:01 PM »

Here you can see some of the hybrid citrus seeds being incubated. It's only the first generation.

What variety's are water type?
Most varieties are water-type (Brewster, for example).
If the fruit has smooth skin, that's a pretty good indication it's water-type.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How can I keep my rambutan seedlings growing
« on: September 29, 2017, 03:12:21 PM »
Rambutan is more tropical than longan or lychee, and the seedlings need consistently warm temperatures.
Have you considered a heat mat and growing them inside an enclosure under a grow light?

It's not uncommon for lychee or rambutan to show stalled growth at about 5 to 9 inches. Before that the little plant is relying on energy stored in the seed.

Also I'd use a soil type that retains water well, because you need the soil to remain constantly moist.

hak ip belongs to a subgroup of lychees known as 'Mountain-type', which also includes the varieties Mauritius and Emperor. These lychees are generally a little bit more drought tolerant and cold tolerant, with a more dwarfed tree size and rougher texture on the skin of the fruit. (Mountain-type lychees are so called because they traditionally grew at higher elevations, as opposed to the more common 'Water-type' lychees that grew in lowland flood plains)

Is it possible the soil could be getting too waterlogged?

If that doesn't appear to be the problem, it could indeed be possible hak ip has a slightly higher chill requirement and that might explain the lack of vigor and why it is succumbing. I've read reports lychee seems to produce a little bit better in climate zone 9b than it does in zone 10 (assuming it still has enough heat the rest of the year, and not talking about desert climates either).
Maybe you could try putting it in a cooler part of your greenhouse during the winter to make sure it gets just a little bit of cooler temperatures ? (but if they are young seedlings you should make sure they don't get too cold)
I don't know, you could try treating the soil with willow tea, and maybe applying a little bit of dilute gibberellic acid to the plant in Spring.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: September 25, 2017, 06:44:51 PM »
It's great weather for citrus right now. Right now it's 63 but that's pretty good considering it's overcast and raining. Yesterday it was 69-74, and in 3 days it's expected to go up to 85.
As I was saying earlier, the growing season starts late in the season, but it also extends late into the season (it's September 25).

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Thread for Citrus Breeders
« on: September 25, 2017, 04:25:49 PM »

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Will There Be Any Place Left To Grow Citrus
« on: September 19, 2017, 03:28:56 AM »
Notice how citrus greening has only appeared in places that grow citrus commercially (i.e. have monoculture fields with row after row of hundreds of citrus)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus varieties in order of cold-hardiness
« on: September 17, 2017, 08:49:51 PM »
There's a wide range of variation among different tangerine and grapefruit varieties. There are many grapefruit varieties that are cold hardier than many different tangerine varieties. That's why it can be misleading to say that mandarins are more cold hardy than grapefruit. Historically a lot of these tangerine varieties got bred in North Africa, so apparently they lost their cold hardiness genes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tangelo tree pollination
« on: September 17, 2017, 08:42:13 PM »
If I remember correctly, Satsuma is not a very good pollinator. That's one of the reasons it's fruit has so few seeds.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Looking for Citrumelo
« on: September 17, 2017, 02:45:10 AM »
Logee's has citrumelo. not sure if it's Dunstan or Swingle but the catalog description says it tastes sort of like a sour grapefruit.
Be warned though, the size is very small so you will probably need to grow it a year before you can even think about grafting.

Anyway, if you just want to practice grafting you can easily practice grafting onto an ordinary citrus tree from the nursery. For example, tangerine can be grafted onto an orange that is itself already grafted onto dwarf rootstock.


Mangosteen seedlings, lychee, rare citron variety seedlings. The big one is a mangosteen.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie shan
« on: September 07, 2017, 11:16:23 PM »
Anyone know any mail order nurseries that carry Xie Shan? Or does anyone have any seeds they could send me?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: September 07, 2017, 02:07:18 AM »
Here's another post I found on gardenweb:

January 18, 2007
I'm in Washington State... have had a Changsha and Meyer Lemon outside for about 4 years. The Meyer gets hit pretty hard in the winter, but the Changsha seems to be a real winner. Been down to 14f this winter and it's still looking good (the Valencia seems to have bought the farm though).

Wow, I had to look up what "bought the farm" means. Apparently it = dead

I'm not 100% sure about Changsha in WA though, out in the open, completely unprotected. From someone else's account that I read it seems really borderline. (Their Chansha bit the dust in the record cold 2009 Winter, but they were in the Vancouver area, towards Portland, and that area does get slightly colder chill than the Seattle area)

Just wanted to post this here, maybe it can help give some of you hope.

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