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Messages - FlyingFoxFruits

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11751
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Atemoya Most Like Cherimoya
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:25:12 PM »
The richness of the better true cherimoyas, and the great differences among true cherimoya varieties, are hard to approach within any other single Annona species, or within the "atemoya" category of Annona hybrids.  You need a collection of several other species to approach the gourmet pleasure you could get from growing a collection of cherimoya varieties where they grow well--- not here!

Though I bred the '48--26', a.k.a. 'Lisa,' I agree that 'Geffner' is far more likely to perform satisfactorily.

Be aware that some lists, including the Sarasota list, contain varieties of Annona hybrids which are not properly referred to as "atemoyas."
"Atemoyas" are Annona hybrids containing both Annona squamosa (Sugar-Apple, or Sweetsop, or Ate, or Anón) and Annona cherimola (Cherimoya, "true cherimoya"), and NO OTHER species.  Annona hybrids containing other Annona species should not be called "atemoya."

Annona hybrids that are part Annona reticulata ("Reticulata" or "Custard-Apple" in Florida, Bullock's-Heart, Corazón), or part Annona diversifolia (ilama, or papauce), should simply be called "Annona hybrids", but may also be referred to with their own specific hybrid names:
"Cherilata" for part cherimoya and part reticulata;
"Temoylata" for the 3-species mix of sugar-apple, cherimoya, and reticulata;  etc.

When one joins a group from many places talking about Annonas, the conversation  can easily bring recollections of Babylon--- novices will even call soursops "atemoyas"; Brazilian's have several names for Sugar-apple, depending on the town; Cuban's often call Reticulata "cherimoya", and several other Annona species get called "cherimoya" elsewhere;  Australians tend to call all Annonas "Custard-Apples;" and so on; and erudite botanists keep splitting the genera in this family, and then lumping them together again.

Har

PS:  Where the "true cherimoya" is from, the valleys between the ranges of the Andes, the Quechua language is spoken.  Because many cherimoya varieties have "mamilate" skins, and because the fruits are not from the animal kingdom and therefore are not warm, they are called "chiri moya" = cold breasts.

U need to write a book Guanabanus!

U my new fav member!

11752
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Atemoya Most Like Cherimoya
« on: February 29, 2012, 08:20:00 PM »
Nuathong!

and Gefner!

BOTH have nice firm cherimoya type flesh, not mushy like sugar apple, and a much nicer flavor!


11753
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 08:02:01 PM »
Oxalis corniculata, has roots like grass, but I let it go wild, and it doesn't seem to bother plants.

Oxalis triangularis is the better of the two varieties, because it has bulb, and bigger leaves to eat.

I wonder how tuberosa would do in my pots?  I wonder how bulbs taste of triangularis?  I wonder what else is good to grow intercropped in a container?  Permaculture somewhat I guess.

All good ideas, but personally i'd rather grow some herbs around base of pots, like mint, oregano, parsley, sage, garlic chives, etc. I think the real aromatic herbs also help to repel bugs from the trees.
Oscar

But what herbs would be best to grow, ones that won't compete with main occupant of the container?

Oxalis is an herb and a veggie!

All the herbs i listed are shallow rooted and not invasive. I used to chew what we called sour grass, oxalis, as a kid. But i'd rather eat herbs.
Oscar

Herbs are herbs, and almost like weeds, its up to the consumer of the plant, to decide what is best herb.

I'm looking for plants to encourage in my pots, and only ones that have a benefit to the main occupant of the pot.  Not ones that may draw too much moisture, or nutrients from the small amount of soil and fertilizer in my containers.  So i think ones with bulbs, and nitrogen fixing potential are ones that I'd give preference to...I'd grow all of the other common place herbs in a separate spot (if they don't directly benefit my plant by being a occupant of the same growing vessel.

11754
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 07:40:31 PM »
u want me to mail u some bulbs?   have tons...I won't mail out of FL though...sorry

11755
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: can persimons taste good
« on: February 29, 2012, 07:39:27 PM »
Triumph was one of the better fruiting trees I did grow.  This tree would flunk Adams jaboticaba waterboarding....and died as well from standing water in my yard.

Harry


HAHA!  My detainees are fairing the torture well.  No confessions made as of yet!  Both pushing growth despite being water logged.

Persimmon grows really well by me, and I see them all over.  WE graft them onto the native persimmon sometimes.

THe native ones taste good, but are for the real Diospyros lover.


11756
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 07:34:09 PM »
Oxalis corniculata, has roots like grass, but I let it go wild, and it doesn't seem to bother plants.

Oxalis triangularis is the better of the two varieties, because it has bulb, and bigger leaves to eat.

I wonder how tuberosa would do in my pots?  I wonder how bulbs taste of triangularis?  I wonder what else is good to grow intercropped in a container?  Permaculture somewhat I guess.

All good ideas, but personally i'd rather grow some herbs around base of pots, like mint, oregano, parsley, sage, garlic chives, etc. I think the real aromatic herbs also help to repel bugs from the trees.
Oscar

But what herbs would be best to grow, ones that won't compete with main occupant of the container?

Oxalis is an herb and a veggie!

11757
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: fruit you are dying to taste
« on: February 29, 2012, 07:28:19 PM »
fruit im dying to taste?

FRESH AKEE! NO pun intended! Yikes :o :'(

11758
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Better Eugenias than Surinam cherry
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:57:44 PM »
the name says it all!

Post away!

11759
Oscar,

how do you think the pitanga tuba would do as a replacement?  I know it handles freezes very well here in FL.  I'm surprised more arent growing this superior Eugenia.   I know it is drought tolerant and salt tolerant, and flood tolerant....I wonder if its limited native range and it's obscurity have made this tree less popular than it should be?

I think it would be a hair more sensitive to drought, and cold, but that's it...otherwise, it should do well across the world...especially in a pot!

Glad to have derailed my topic to my other favorite genus, Eugenia.

Maybe we should start a topic called Better Eugenias than Surinam cherry?

11760
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao question
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:50:44 PM »
Will a Cacao come true to seed?

The cacaos are fairly true from seed, and most plants are started from seed. But if you need an exact replica for some reason then you need to start from cuttings.
Oscar

You can graft them very easy, the cambium is soft and thick...easy to work with.

Hope you graft a bunch.

11761
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: fruit you are dying to taste
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:49:50 PM »
JUNGLESOP!

PEQUI

PAWPAW

UXI

Voted for durian, because all I get is frozen monthong from thailand, I want the crazy ones, and fresh ones!

11762
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:48:21 PM »
Oxalis corniculata, has roots like grass, but I let it go wild, and it doesn't seem to bother plants.

Oxalis triangularis is the better of the two varieties, because it has bulb, and bigger leaves to eat.

I wonder how tuberosa would do in my pots?  I wonder how bulbs taste of triangularis?  I wonder what else is good to grow intercropped in a container?  Permaculture somewhat I guess.

11763
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: can persimons taste good
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:43:23 PM »
I love the astringent ones!

Pop the top, and squeeze out.  They taste like sugar jelly.

I like to spread them on bread to, but I don't really like non astringent as much.

I guess good things come to those who wait.

I hear saijo is one of the best.

11764
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Planting fruit trees in groups
« on: February 29, 2012, 10:53:31 AM »
Here's what I know (which isn't very much ???).  Dave Wilson Nursery in CA recommends as part of intensive home fruit gardening planting 3 or 4 varieties of their deciduous fruit trees in one big hole several inches apart, and then pruning each to remain the same size and growing away from the trunks to the outside.  I've seen other nurseries recommend doing the same with avocado trees.  I don't see why this couldn't be done with mango trees, as well, as long as they're cultivars that share similar growth habits, e.g., compactness or dwarfness.  I'll admit that I've haven't tried this myself yet.  And there's also the idea of a fruit hedge with trees that respond to that type of intensive pruning.

Inga fixes nitrogen, and is good to plant near other fruit trees, just not too close (but it can be coppiced, so maybe as close as u like.

Don't plant a sapodilla, tamarind, white sapote, black sapote, mango, and avocado in a small planting area.  Or you'll have a real crowded orchard.  These trees get big, somewhat quickly in some cases (5yrs or less).

here are some that can find a spot to flourish in a crowded garden,

Jaboticaba
miracle fruit
carambola
certain Garcinia


Good luck!

11765
Tropical Fruit Online Library / Re: Mango "T" Shield Budding PDF
« on: February 29, 2012, 02:54:35 AM »
HAHA Don't forget your budding-knife with bone handle to raise
,the bark; (2) raffia; (3) grafting wax ; and (4) waxed cotton bandage.

This document is awesome!  So glad u posted.  Wish I could jump in a time machine and cut my fingers shield budding mangoes with these good ol boys.

thanks Null

11766
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 02:38:25 AM »
Years ago I planted a few Andrographis seeds, and they grow like weeds here, but are easy to control, I think they help the plants they grow near. I wanted them around because of their powerful antiviral reputation, ( during the H1N1 scare ).

a weed with a tap root may not be bad, because it can bring up minerals to the surface, and may not compete for water from other plants its near. but if the plant is "useless" then pull it out. I mean, there are plants that have no benefit in the garden, and are hard to control.

Funny, my pappy is a doc who was looking into conducting clinical trials with this plant. GO figure, I can plant it at the foothills of my jabo!

Appreciate the feedback on the tap root! 

11767
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: muntingia calabura variants?
« on: February 29, 2012, 02:02:51 AM »
Exotica rarefruit nursery in Vista, CA has two big in-ground yellow muntingia calaburas.  I tried to germinate seeds from those two trees the same time as the typical red skinned, within the same plastic container in peat pellets.  Both germinated fine but several weeks in, all the yellow ones started dying off while the red grew perfectly normal.  What gives?

Anikulapo?  What happened to Adam?

Not sure, try sprouting again, or root cuttings, or regular cuttings, or grafting!

Think of the original name I had as a seedling stage of my time on this forum.  Now I'm a fully sprouted plant, and you can begin to see how my leaves look, and what my growth habit may look like.

I'm sure when my time on this forum has come to fruition, I will have an entirely different icon and name.

It's all just show business.

11768
Another derail...

There is a similar situation with eugenias BL and AL. In USA we mostly know surinam cherry, cherry of rio grande, and brazilian cherry (grumichama). But there are over 200 species of eugenias! I think many of these could be lots better than surinam cherry, and some may be as good or better than brazilian cherry.
Oscar

Here in Uganda Eugenia uniflora is very common and all other eugenia species unknown (even the indigenous), and it is solely used as a hedge; the beautiful foliage and drought resistance is considered more important than the fruit(taste). Most of the other eugenia species are less drought resistant, and I therefore don't believe they will be grown here.

I think you're wrong about surinam cherry being the most drought tolerant and only eugenia that is drought tolerant. There are species of eugenias that originate in the Brazilian cerrado, where they have very long dry spells. Remember this is a very large genus. I don't really know why the surinam cherry became the most popular from this huge collection of plants.
Oscar

Oscar, you misquoted me - I wrote "most of the other eugenia species are less drought resistant" - I have two species; E. dysenterica and E. pitanga which are more drought resistant then E. uniflora. And I agree, there could be many of the lesser cultivated species which likewise are drought resistant, but not the ones I grow or are aware of.

I think Oscar was just excited about all of the other Eugenias to grow, other than that Gawd Awful surinam cherry.  :P

I can see why he'd rattle off some names of superior fruited and more drought tolerant species of Eugenia.  Being that he probably is just now fruiting some of these and people are just waking up!

I think the surinam is so wide spread because of its widespread range in Brazil, and it's early fruition, and ability to adapt to Tropical and Sub tropical portions of the globe.

Hope the scenery and fruitscape changes over there by u!  its nasty by us!  I have lots of work to do!  But I won't be deterred because I carry death in my pouch, I cannot be harmed.

11769
I don't know why it would be bad to have the tree fruit at the base?  Maybe the scion is firm and the rootstock is soft fleshed?

I have heard seedlings sometimes make the best fruit, and most vigorous trees to!

Its funny, but it is a cocktail jack tree...wonder how the fruit compares from stock to scion?

11770
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Good weeds
« on: February 29, 2012, 01:23:39 AM »
Just like bugs, some weeds are good.

But I guess the definition of a weed, is a plant that is growing where you don't intend for it to grow.

So lets, sort out the weeds from the plants we should welcome in to our gardens and containers.

Let me first start by saying that, oxalis (with bulbs) grows abundantly in my Jaboticaba pots, and I have found it's wise to encourage its growth.

It promotes retention of soil, fertilizer, and reduces erosion.  I'm certain that some bulbs and legumes help fix nitrogen.. . I haven't researched it, but I assume the oxalis  I have does something like this.  It never bothers my plants.

I have started to tear off any leaves of the oxalis, throwing them down as a live mulch.  This stimulates new growth on the oxalis, and a new batch of fertilzer/organic mulch, to add to my pot, that grows in my pots.

Some other oxalis have over run my pots, but it doesn't have bulbs, it has roots like grass.  Not sure about this oxalis (small yellow flowers, small leaves, purple green) but I let it go crazy, and plants dont mind.

As a general rule I kill anything with a tap root, or anything that is like grass.

But maybe I am wrong, killing stuff I shouldn't?

Anyone have any input?

PS oxalis is tasty by itself or even better with S. dulcificum! One of my favorite combos.

11771
Tropical Fruit Discussion / muntingia calabura variants?
« on: February 29, 2012, 01:05:52 AM »
Read in FL's best fruiting plants, that old Charley Boning has seen pink flowered Strawberry trees.

Anyone know where I can get me a variety of this tree?  Any variations would be interesting.  I like the fruits as is, quite a bit.

I remember seeing one that had a yellow fruit, instead of a pink fruit.  Any leads?

Thanks

11772
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Potted lychee pruning
« on: February 29, 2012, 12:56:48 AM »
Adam, let me see if i understand your tip correctly? You set the plant down low in the pot. Then when plant is getting rootbound and after root pruning you add some soil at the bottom of same container and reuse the same container a bit highere? Seems like you would have to set the plant down very low to be able to reuse the pot this way 4-5 times, unless you are talking about really huge pots?
Oscar

U got it Oscar exactly.

The pots are usually large when doing this, around 10 gal - 25 gal and up.

But you can practice this with smaller sizes like one gallon pots to!  Just fill half way, and plant, then step up.




11773
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Potted lychee pruning
« on: February 29, 2012, 12:25:16 AM »
Only prune the tree as needed to keep in bounds, and to keep shapely, and small enough to keep portable and warm.

Root pruning will be necessary if you keep the plant in the same pot for an extended period (2yrs or more approx)

I have a large lychee in a 25 gal, and its only been in the pot for about 1yr, and it will be root bound by the end of this year for sure...

I will have to root prune and repot in a larger pot, or repot in the same pot.

I always prune leaves and branches somewhat, if I prune roots (it helps the tree heal faster)

Another trick I'll share with you dudes, is the practice of setting a plant in a pot at a low depth (not high up in the pot like Zill sells trees, no offense to Zill...he is short term container grower and has high turnover rate for plants)  But if you plant a specimen a bit low in the pot, you can step the plant up in the same pot, over 4 or 5 times!

It saves money, and plastic, and water seems to fill the pot, sitting on the roots and the plant doesn't have fertilizer or soil being splashed out over the rim when heavily watered


11774
HAHA!

Sell it as a cocktail tree!


11775
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cambuca does not taste like orange jello
« on: February 29, 2012, 12:09:21 AM »

It all depends of the type of orange crush...

I didn't get the peach taste from cambuca. Is there much variation in flavor between trees? Any selected varieties in Brazil?

That pic makes me wish I had another cambuca right now.

One cultivar called "imperial" with fruits of size larger than 5cm in diameter.

Yes, there is variation.

Did you think it tasted like a jabo with persimmon texture, and almost apricot/tomato taste?

I know its sounds strange, but when they are bland, or early they remind me of a tomato

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