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Author Topic: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei  (Read 456 times)

simon_grow

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Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« on: April 17, 2015, 11:33:12 PM »
Is anyone growing this vegetable from Japan? I've never heard of it until recently and there are claims that it has some anti cancer properties.

My friends mom has cancer and I'm looking for any plant, fruit, vegetable, herb that might help her beat the cancer. She's already had chemo and radiation. Of course I will ask her to speak to her doctor before trying anything but this veggie seems promising and very benign.

It appears that the main active compound is chalcones and I've read that chalcones are found in multiple various plants but I'm assuming Ashitaba, Angrlica Keiskei may have higher concentrations or that it has been studied more. Please share any info you have on this plant as well as any other anticancer plants that are efficacious against cancer.

Here's a few links:
https://mdpi.com/1420-3049/17/6/6179/molecules-17-06179.pdf
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-S4QlRPco

KarenRei

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 04:15:32 AM »
Obligatory XKCD:

https://xkcd.com/1217/

There are some studies that suggest that certain chalcones when applied to cancer cells in a petri dish can kill them, and some when concentrated and fed to mice in  doses you wouldn't get from just eating the plants improved their survival time (with only basic study on what other damage such a regime might have done - and one should note that mouse physiology, while useful for study, is not the same as human). That said, you're not hurting anything giving her a bit of ashitaba, so if it makes her feel better without giving false hope that's going to come back to bite her, then go for it. Honestly, if I was in your situation, I'd probably be doing the same desperate search.  :(

That said, what's being studied isn't just eating the plants - it's the highly concentrated, refined ethanol extract of the roots. In in-vivo mouse studies they used 2 kilograms of crushed, dried roots and 50% ethanol to extract a solution (vacuum dried down to 200 grams), then take the portion of that which dissolves in ethyl acetate (vacuum dried down to 50 grams), then go through a series of progressive steps to isolate the specific chemicals they wanted, down to the milligram level. They fed the various extracts and individual chemicals to mice at varying rates.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.11256/abstract

So if you want to use her as a guinea pig and she wants that too, go ahead. If we want to go with the simplest as an analogy (the whole ethanol extract), for a 60kg human to match the mouse's dose of 500mg/kg of concentrated root extract per day would have to eat 300 grams (almost a pound) of dry roots per day (ideally uncooked, you don't know if heat would denature the compounds). The undried weight would be significantly higher; carrots, for example, are 87% water, so if we assume the same ratio here, then that's 2,3 kilograms of fresh roots per day (5 pounds). So that's your baseline. Given that it's unrealistic to eat that much, and all of the furanocoumarins wouldn't be healthy either, you're either going to have to cut the dosage dramatically from what was used in the study, or perform some level of extracting and refining. The ethanol extraction probably wouldn't be too difficult and the concentrate (I'm assuming here that the choice of air drying vs. vacuum drying doesn't make a difference) would only be 30 grams per day. That is to say, your recipe would be, every day:

1) Grind 300 grams of dried ashitaba root in a food processor
2) Soak it in 1/5 liter (a bit under a cup) of vodka for 1 hour
3) Drain and press out all of the liquid you can (a press would help).
4) Repeat steps #2 and #3 two additional times.
5) Let all the vodka dry until you're left with about 30 grams of a dark greenish brown, viscous extract (about 3 tablespoons)

Contrarily, if she wanted to get drunk she could chug it without letting it fully dry  ;) Note: I've never priced ashitaba root but I'm sure this would be expensive.

That said, do realize that any sort of alternative treatment, if it works, is also going to be a form of chemotherapy. Chemotherapy is poisonous chemicals that cause cell death, chosen for properties that make them kill cancer cells at a higher rate than normal cells; however, no chemical is perfectly selective. And it's very unlikely that one's going to stumble into an as-of-yet undiscovered plant that bears a perfectly selective chemical that applies universally to all cancers. But if - and I stress IF - the human body responds the same as the mice in the study, the it looks very promising; it didn't just shrink tumors but significantly improved survival times and their bodies appeared to be healthier in general. But again, we really don't know the potential side effects or how well it works on humans instead of mice.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 05:26:48 AM by KarenRei »
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki brjlu. Jja, kannski...

KarenRei

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2015, 04:55:07 AM »
Also, are you thinking about growing this plant? From seed? If your friend's mom has cancer I'd think time would be of the essence...
J, g er a rkta surnar plntur slandi. Nei, g er ekki brjlu. Jja, kannski...

stuartdaly88

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2015, 06:50:26 AM »
You hear of so many miracle cancer cures and like Karen said they often have great success in a petri dish but I once heard a scientist say a flame thrower would have amazing in vitro results against cancer cells. Even many strong poisons would have fantastic in vitro results  :(

I think often under played are getting a healthy diet rich in fruits and especially vegetables lowering refined carbohydrates and sugar. Also low to moderate exercise(like walks etc nothing too strenuous depending on their chemo and radiation).
Limiting her stress and getting enough sleep. It all sounds pretty basic but many cancer patients arent getting all that yet and its very important.
If her health is good in all those ways then maybe carefully look for a herb like angelica but most doctors would caution against it if its not well known how it may affect the body.
There is so much evidence for placeebo effect affecting ones body and that would lead you to believe that a positive non victim attitude could also play a role but it is also unfair for family to try force someone who is going through something unbelievably psychologically traumatic to always just be positive :(
There is still unfortunate no silver bullet for cancer but basic health and nutrition during chemo cannot be understated and should be catered to long before any herbs or supplements come into play.
Be wary there is so much misinformation and unscrupulous marketing with regards to this, too many people trying to make money off of other peoples tragedy its sick.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 06:55:54 AM by stuartdaly88 »
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

zands

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2015, 08:56:39 AM »
******  I have heard of this but have no personal experience with it

http://livelovefruit.com/2012/12/chinese-herbs-that-destroy-cancer-lei-gong-teng/

(NaturalNews) Rarely known outside traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), lei gong teng or "thunder god vine" is stunning Western researchers with its ability to stop cancer in its tracks - in as little as forty days. Used for its health enhancing qualities for more than 2,000 years in China, the West is beginning to recognize the astounding benefits of the vine for treating cancer, giving new hope to those who suffer from the most deadly forms of the disease

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040314_thunder_god_vine_cancer_tumors.html#ixzz3XfIMaKNl

available here http://stores.barrysvitaminshop.com/thundergod-vine-100mg-60-veg-caps/     

and ebay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lei%20gong%20teng&clk_rvr_id=816446887573&adpos={adposition}&MT_ID=9&crlp={creative}_2416792&geo_id=10232&keyword=lei+gong+teng&crdt=0


more infos----
http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/Web2007/LeiGongTeng.htm

http://www.arthritistoday.org/news/chinese-herb-bests-prescription.php
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 09:09:39 AM by zands »

stuartdaly88

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2015, 09:09:21 AM »
******  I have heard of this but have no personal experience w it

http://livelovefruit.com/2012/12/chinese-herbs-that-destroy-cancer-lei-gong-teng/

(NaturalNews) Rarely known outside traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), lei gong teng or "thunder god vine" is stunning Western researchers with its ability to stop cancer in its tracks - in as little as forty days. Used for its health enhancing qualities for more than 2,000 years in China, the West is beginning to recognize the astounding benefits of the vine for treating cancer, giving new hope to those who suffer from the most deadly forms of the disease

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040314_thunder_god_vine_cancer_tumors.html#ixzz3XfIMaKNl

available here http://stores.barrysvitaminshop.com/thundergod-vine-100mg-60-veg-caps/     

and ebay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lei%20gong%20teng&clk_rvr_id=816446887573&adpos={adposition}&MT_ID=9&crlp={creative}_2416792&geo_id=10232&keyword=lei+gong+teng&crdt=0


Anything I hear on Natural News I would take with a giant truckload of salt...
NOt saying they are always wrong in absolutely everything they say just that they are complete unscientific pseudoscience pushers of the highest degree
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

zands

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 09:15:18 AM »


Anything I hear on Natural News I would take with a giant truckload of salt...
NOt saying they are always wrong in absolutely everything they say just that they are complete unscientific pseudoscience pushers of the highest degree

Ask them for a job so you can correct them in real time..... 
My take is trust and verify with them and others but your giant truckload of salt comment is bs

Interestingly enough one of the few sellers on the internet is in Australia. The stuff is very powerful and to be used very carefully.

stuartdaly88

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 09:35:30 AM »


Anything I hear on Natural News I would take with a giant truckload of salt...
NOt saying they are always wrong in absolutely everything they say just that they are complete unscientific pseudoscience pushers of the highest degree


Ask them for a job so you can correct them in real time..... 
My take is trust and verify with them and others but your giant truckload of salt comment is bs

Interestingly enough one of the few sellers on the internet is in Australia. The stuff is very powerful and to be used very carefully.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/tag/naturalnews-com/
http://rationallythinkingoutloud.com/my-2-second-guide-to-woo-pseudoscience-websites/
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/tag/mike-adams/
http://skeptoid.com/mobile/4283
http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/who-do-you-know-who-believes-in-the-most-deadly-kind-of-pseudoscience
http://debunkingdenialism.com/tag/natural-news/
http://hatepseudoscience.com/tag/natural-news/
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/natural-news-claims-evidence-neil-degrasse-tyson/
http://dawnsbrain.com/ten-facebook-pages-you-need-to-stop-sharing-from/
There's more if you need.
Or just type top pseudoscience/quack/woo/antiscience(or anything similar websites into Google:)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 09:52:53 AM by stuartdaly88 »
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

zands

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 09:57:40 AM »
Who really gives a shit. Think for yourself.
Here is a good one just today from Natural News:

http://www.naturalnews.com/049395_Doctor_Oz_Monsanto_Mafia_glyphosate_toxicity.html
Vicious attack on Dr. Oz actually waged by biotech mafia; plot to destroy Oz launched after episode on glyphosate toxicity went viral

********  Is the above hyped up a bit? Prolly but it is very interesting. Since you figure can do better you should go out and publish your own Stuart's Natural News for Australia to begin with. Websites are inexpensive these days

zands

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 10:01:28 AM »
as far as actually getting thunder vine I would go here: http://stores.barrysvitaminshop.com/thundergod-vine-100mg-60-veg-caps/

Because it will probably have a verified dose level. You can phone them and ask. The vine can be toxic. You can buy the herb and brew your own. Its less expensive. But I would start with Barry's product for a while to get a true measure of it   

stuartdaly88

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 10:11:34 AM »
Who really gives a shit. Think for yourself.
Here is a good one just today from Natural News:

http://www.naturalnews.com/049395_Doctor_Oz_Monsanto_Mafia_glyphosate_toxicity.html
Vicious attack on Dr. Oz actually waged by biotech mafia; plot to destroy Oz launched after episode on glyphosate toxicity went viral

********  Is the above hyped up a bit? Prolly but it is very interesting. Since you figure can do better you should go out and publish your own Stuart's Natural News for Australia to begin with. Websites are inexpensive these days

Lol you do know what taking something with a pinch of salt means right?
It means to be sceptical not to discount what someone say but to varify it.
My truckload of salt is just a way of saying be very skeptical as this website is heavily criticised in the scientific community(people who studied the subject matter thinking for themselves maybe?) ie thinking for yourself and not believing something because a website says it.

So websites can't be criticised? One should rather open a competing website if they see unscientific practices on a popular website.
That's pretty ridiculous.
And more than a little bit silly...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:21:02 AM by stuartdaly88 »
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Bush2Beach

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 01:19:49 PM »
Is anyone growing this vegetable from Japan? I've never heard of it until recently and there are claims that it has some anti cancer properties.

My friends mom has cancer and I'm looking for any plant, fruit, vegetable, herb that might help her beat the cancer. She's already had chemo and radiation. Of course I will ask her to speak to her doctor before trying anything but this veggie seems promising and very benign.

It appears that the main active compound is chalcones and I've read that chalcones are found in multiple various plants but I'm assuming Ashitaba, Angrlica Keiskei may have higher concentrations or that it has been studied more. Please share any info you have on this plant as well as any other anticancer plants that are efficacious against cancer.

Here's a few links:
https://mdpi.com/1420-3049/17/6/6179/molecules-17-06179.pdf
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-S4QlRPco

I just got ahold of some Ashitaba seeds and plants. I planted out all the seed and the plants are growing well. I read they were the only plant known to have chalcones. I have heard miracle stories involving this plant. It is attributed to longevity and an important plant in Japan. Send a PM if you want to discuss how to link with the people in your area that have this herb.

buddyguygreen

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 01:48:44 PM »
Ive got one growing from horizonherbs.com.

after doing a lot of research on this plant it all says you cant grow this in florida because of the heat, I proved them wrong.  about 30% sun the rest shade and lots of rich organic matter and water. Grows a new leaf every 2 days.

Good stuff taste just like celery.





nullzero

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Re: Anti cancer Ashitaba, Angelica Keiskei
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2015, 02:18:06 PM »
I have one growing as well, in a container I got from Etsy seller as a very small plant.
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

 

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