Author Topic: Advice for an Orlando Beginner  (Read 6769 times)

FruitFreak

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2018, 05:38:24 PM »
My advice as someone who attempted to grow tropicals in Orlando is:

Don't get too excited and buy a million different fruit trees
Don't plant trees too close together
Take the time to do a scaled layout of your property to determine spacial and quantity requirements
Stick to cold hardy varieties and only grow tropicals you are willing to protect each year
Cold protection can be costly, stressful, laborious, and is not guaranteed
Mound up your trees and use lots of mulch
Know your HOA/neighbors if that is applicable
- Marley

Tropheus76

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2018, 08:02:24 PM »
Just jumping on this train here a little late due to lack of internet access. I am in about as far SE Orlando as you can get and still be in the county.
Loquats are great. Lychee do ok. Mangos do well until it gets cold. Guava do ok til it gets cold. Both types burned to the ground from the cold last winter. Apples survive and thats about it. I have several different variaties of citrus and they do fine. I have Key Lime, random juice orange tree(15"+ tall), and a few others that survive. There are a few oddballs that do ok, melon berries and raison trees do ok. Oddly enough I have fruiting allspice and miracle berry and protect neither in the same cold that burned down the mangoes.

My pomegranites grow decent but in 4 years havent flowered yet, even my oldest(6yo) which is around 8 feet tall has only had a couple flowers and no fruit. Starfruit has survived the cold but rarely gives fruit. Dragonfruit survives although I have neighbors that had some great ones that last years cold killed. Mine were protected by an oak.   

Mulberries are excellent in the area. I started to concentrate on mulberries, loquats, apples for the challenge, and mangoes(both potted and in ground).

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2018, 08:40:18 AM »
Usually land slopes toward a pond giving plants more rain water

The water table is high around ponds so s good place for your thirsty plants
 
Zill Dark Surinam
Cherry of rio grand
Barbados cherry

Are the easiest to grow with best flavor

Thanks Phil. I'll try to get a taste of one of those guys.

My advice as someone who attempted to grow tropicals in Orlando is:

Don't get too excited and buy a million different fruit trees
Don't plant trees too close together
Take the time to do a scaled layout of your property to determine spacial and quantity requirements
Stick to cold hardy varieties and only grow tropicals you are willing to protect each year
Cold protection can be costly, stressful, laborious, and is not guaranteed
Mound up your trees and use lots of mulch
Know your HOA/neighbors if that is applicable

Appreciate it! I'm trying to limit myself to 5 or so varieties. This sounds strange to ask, but where do people normally get the soil in order to build a mound in a residential area? I doubt the wife will enjoy a crater next to all our trees:/ I may be able to bring a wheelbarrow to the more overgrown areas outside of people's lots but that sounds like a good way to get in trouble.

What type of mulch works well and is available around us?

I also saw your post about 3 avocados around Orlando in 2015. I am curious if you ended up settling on something.


Just jumping on this train here a little late due to lack of internet access. I am in about as far SE Orlando as you can get and still be in the county.
Loquats are great. Lychee do ok. Mangos do well until it gets cold. Guava do ok til it gets cold. Both types burned to the ground from the cold last winter. Apples survive and thats about it. I have several different variaties of citrus and they do fine. I have Key Lime, random juice orange tree(15"+ tall), and a few others that survive. There are a few oddballs that do ok, melon berries and raison trees do ok. Oddly enough I have fruiting allspice and miracle berry and protect neither in the same cold that burned down the mangoes.

My pomegranites grow decent but in 4 years havent flowered yet, even my oldest(6yo) which is around 8 feet tall has only had a couple flowers and no fruit. Starfruit has survived the cold but rarely gives fruit. Dragonfruit survives although I have neighbors that had some great ones that last years cold killed. Mine were protected by an oak.   

Mulberries are excellent in the area. I started to concentrate on mulberries, loquats, apples for the challenge, and mangoes(both potted and in ground).

Bummer about the pomegranates. Is there a chance they were seedlings? I'm starting to give up hope on those guys.

I am worried about growing loquats without trying them first, and heard that fruit flies can be an issue. Have you seen any problems with pests?

Also, can you explain how a larger tree can protect a tropical from the cold? I've got a couple decent sized oaks in the back and had planned to avoid planting near them to avoid shade, but it sounds like that might be the best area for a cold intolerant tree.


sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 08:28:58 AM »
You can think  of canopies of large trees over smaller ones as similar to throwing a blanket over your small tree to hold in heat. The umbrella of foliage of the big tree acts sort of blanket like, giving some cold protection. The ground is warmer than the air in our climate, so blankets trap the heat of the ground in keeping the cold air off.

FruitFreak

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2018, 09:18:59 AM »
There is free soil at the landfill and you can load as much as you want.  As for mulch, free from tree trimmers would be optimal.
- Marley

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2018, 11:32:43 AM »
You can think  of canopies of large trees over smaller ones as similar to throwing a blanket over your small tree to hold in heat. The umbrella of foliage of the big tree acts sort of blanket like, giving some cold protection. The ground is warmer than the air in our climate, so blankets trap the heat of the ground in keeping the cold air off.

Gotcha. So I’d want to plant on the southeast side of a larger tree for best protection from wind too? Having trouble understanding the distance it would need to be away to receive protection without too much shade.

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2018, 07:15:27 AM »
9b is huge

Going up the Atlantic Space Coast region down to Venus way down south

I believe I am warmer here than Venus is.

So study your microclimates this winter

The east side of Orlando is usually warmer than the west

Last year was an anomaly as the ice storm that hit NYC dipped onto the east coast of Florida before heading north

Killed several mango and others at girlfriends home in Titusville but i was west of it getting a different cold front coming out of the west of us.

A one year thing sets you back but in spring I would plant again

We replanted all the trees she lost 

Might be a local wuderground weather station very near you and you can get data that is in your hood
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 07:17:28 AM by WGphil »

John Travis

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2018, 08:41:35 AM »
I live in Seminole county 9B and have a lot of success with jaboticaba, starfruit, most eugenia species that are commonly available.  I couldn't resist planting mangoes. I know they aren't going to fruit every year, especially when we have colder temps in the winter, but I figured I'd try anyway. Pickering is a great variety that will stay small. White sapote does well here as does lychee.

I tend to stay away from fruits I can easily buy in the stores (Except mango) because I only have so much space in the yard. I keep a small nursery and would be happy to source some plants for you or provide additional feedback on my experience.
John

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2018, 12:50:40 PM »
Thanks for the tips. I had been a bit wary of starfruit or the tropical cherries after reading this thread.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=26429.msg307264#msg307264

Do you protect your Eugenia and carambola extensively? I’m a little south so I should have slightly better conditions.

How does the taste of Jaboticaba compare with muscadine?

sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2018, 06:30:19 PM »
Wind direction does factor in, you'll have to observe wind patterns on your property during the cold snaps to see where it flows. On my property wind normally comes from the west. But during cold snaps it shifts and comes out of the north east. In deciding where to place things, I spent a season drawing shadow maps to see which areas got how much sun and noting things like wind direction. There is no perfect answer, if you choose to use a large tree for frost protection, then the trade off is some shade. Buildings also hold heat, so planting next to a south facing wall will also give some amount of protection. The best spots on my property for warm microclimate pockets are on the lee side of the house (south west for me) and under the canopy of the oak on the west side of my house it has wind shelter and canopy shelter. Next best spot is against the south facing wall of my house, but otherwise fully exposed. Least good spot is on east side of my yard away from my house - gets maximum cold wind and I have no large trees there to help. Another factor is root competition - if you are thinking of planting near a large tree try driving a stake into the ground there - if there are so many roots you can't - might be very hard to get a tree to grow there. But could be an excellent place for a tropical in a pot. Good luck discovering the microclimates on your property!

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2018, 07:56:53 AM »
There was a Suriname cherry hedge that was about 60 years of age until new owners thought viburnum would be better

I ate berry’s  grades 1-3 so it saw a lot of weather

Suriname are invasive in some areas

Star fruit is tender thank goodness

It grows so fast it saves trimming.

Never failed to fruit even after its worst die back



« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 05:04:32 PM by WGphil »

pineislander

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2018, 04:29:17 PM »
In deciding where to place things, I spent a season drawing shadow maps to see which areas got how much sun and noting things like wind direction.

There is a cool online sun/shade calculator.
http://suncalc.net

C24mccain

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2018, 02:53:27 PM »
I live in Lakeland and have a pretty good size food forest going on. We should have a pretty similar weather conditions. I have my journey documented here: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.0 .. There are links posted to my youtube videos in that thread as well. You might find some ideas in them. Good luck with your plans!

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2018, 02:52:43 PM »
I live in Lakeland and have a pretty good size food forest going on. We should have a pretty similar weather conditions. I have my journey documented here: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.0 .. There are links posted to my youtube videos in that thread as well. You might find some ideas in them. Good luck with your plans!

Thanks McCain, I’ll be interested in how your forest turns out.

New updates:
For sure:
Still want to try 1 pomegranate. Looking like parfianka is good.
2 avocados: still stumped, thinking brogdon and Monroe
Loquat: going to stop my our kids nursery or a natural farm in early spring to look around
Ever bearing mulberry
Cherry of rio grande
Either muscadine or Jaboticaba
Potentially:
Carrie/Fairchild/ Pickering/ manilika mango
Non astringent persimmon?( want to try one first, accidentally bought an astringent one when I saw them at grocer)
Lychee

Which of the above trees would you characterize as “thirsty” trees which I should plant closer to the pond?

Also, when people say to plant trees close to buildings for warmth, how close are we talking? I am imagining anything over 5 feet away isn’t going to do much besides break the wind.

If anyone has any more experience with specific avocado/loquat/ persimmon cultivars which work in the area I would appreciate it.

You have all been a tremendous help


Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2018, 02:56:18 PM »
Lastly, what’s a good reference for grafting beginners? The idea of cocktail trees seems really nice for small spaces. I have seen posts which make it seem possible to completely chop off a tree at the trunk and then replace it with a different cultivar. Is this the case? How long does it normally take for grafts to fruit on these sorts of established root systems?

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2018, 03:48:54 PM »
Planting close to a home means you are blocking the wind which can be the worst type of cold.  A privacy fence  can also block wind

I have twenty mango types

Rather have an entire tree of each






Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2018, 08:15:42 PM »
Planting close to a home means you are blocking the wind which can be the worst type of cold.  A privacy fence  can also block wind

I have twenty mango types

Rather have an entire tree of each

What does your freeze protection consist of Phil?

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2018, 07:55:31 AM »
Common sense is your best friend

Coldest air comes out of the Northwest

Cold air is heaviest and you can ditch cold air off property same as water opposite of air ballooning

Hardiest plants protecting less hardy plants

I culled four mango trees this year and replaced them with types I like better

Don’t be afraid to plant everything and see what does well in
Your yard

We are at the line between sub tropics and temperate zones

So tropical and northern fruits are toughest to grow with exceptions



sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2018, 09:01:23 PM »
I learned to graft by watching th user  GraftingAvacado's videos on YouTube - can't get copy paste to work right now. The video I found most useful is called veneer grafting - top working. I've top worked two mango trees that way.

I have dwarf mango trees planted about 6' from my house. For a bigger tree you'd need more distance. I have another planted near a privacy fence on the perimeter of my property. The fence doesn't give nearly as much protection as the house walls do.

Cythompson159@yahoo.com

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2018, 07:11:08 PM »
Zoom, I just went thru a similar plan as you are now, I recommend making sure you eat what you grow first since you may only have so much room. Example I would not of grew an guava, yeah it’s ok but I do t prefer to eat one every day, same with carambola/starfruit. They are very abundant trees and fruit goes to waste. I can’t ever get enough mangos or lychee or sugar apples and am glad I planted those. I love the Florida peaches but need to be prepared to kill squirrels if you want to keep your fruit. And last don’t forget about the basic lemon and limes, they stay good on the tree for a while and I seem to get regular use from them from Coronas to cooking.