Author Topic: Weed abatement  (Read 7334 times)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2016, 11:29:05 AM »
I can tell you that it does increase the soil nitrogen levels dramatically, which is not ideal for mango trees. The trees on my mulched lot grow way more than the ones on the lot that I just planted out (which has very low nitrogen). So, I do tend to get a lot more growth on the mangoes that I would like.

haha, you can say that again. This time of year, you can watch the weeds grow, especially if you have fertile soil. In my yard, weeding is a joke -- I remove weeds only to see new ones grow right back again the very next week. Mulch is the only long term solution. I can usually get 1.5 to 2 years of weed free happiness from an 8 inch layer of mulch.

Hopefully the weed pullers haven't formed a racket yet like the hedge trimmers. The hedge trimmer magnates charge > 150 / hour here.

I will be calling on them again and again.

Problem is, there are no weed pullers, it is all done by spraying weed killers...

On a side note about mulch, dont know if he still sticking to his opinion but a few years ago Gary Zill did not like the idea of heavy constant mulching of mango trees.  Never heard why, just that he did not believe it should be done.  I wonder if his thoughts are still the same...
Jeff  :-)

bsbullie

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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2016, 12:37:00 PM »
I can tell you that it does increase the soil nitrogen levels dramatically, which is not ideal for mango trees. The trees on my mulched lot grow way more than the ones on the lot that I just planted out (which has very low nitrogen). So, I do tend to get a lot more growth on the mangoes that I would like.

haha, you can say that again. This time of year, you can watch the weeds grow, especially if you have fertile soil. In my yard, weeding is a joke -- I remove weeds only to see new ones grow right back again the very next week. Mulch is the only long term solution. I can usually get 1.5 to 2 years of weed free happiness from an 8 inch layer of mulch.

Hopefully the weed pullers haven't formed a racket yet like the hedge trimmers. The hedge trimmer magnates charge > 150 / hour here.

I will be calling on them again and again.

Problem is, there are no weed pullers, it is all done by spraying weed killers...

On a side note about mulch, dont know if he still sticking to his opinion but a few years ago Gary Zill did not like the idea of heavy constant mulching of mango trees.  Never heard why, just that he did not believe it should be done.  I wonder if his thoughts are still the same...

I was think that and that may be Gary's reasoning.  I wonder if it could have an adverse effect on fruit production at any point?
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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2016, 02:49:39 PM »
layer of compost
layer of cardboard.
layer of grass clippings
layer of woody mulch on top.

the cardboard will break down over time
when it does, the grass clippings will work with it, and the compost
to increase fungal and bacterial growth. (good guys)
the compost acts as a barrier so nitrogen is not an issue.

i add aged coffee grounds on top the compost.
they will add NPK and micros
and i soak the whole thing in fish emulsion before i add the woody mulch.

in areas i have done this, i have looked under the cardboard months later
to find an explosion of springtails, worms, and other tiny critters.

coffee grounds, if not aged well, will use a very small amount of N
at first, but then release some later.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2016, 03:33:49 PM »
It's an open question. I do tend to end up with some leaf flushes during flowering, but the fruit set and retention on the flowering terminals seems to make up for it. The one direct comparison I have is between 2 valcarrie trees, one located in the mulch / compost laden backyard and one in the grass covered front yard. The one in the back consistently sets more fruit but has more fungal issue, where the one in front is chlorotic and a poor fruiter (despite being a year older).

I think the ideal scenario would be soil high in nutrition (K, P, micros) but low in nitrate,  But, I still think the benefits outweigh the downsides. In my case, the soil was only 3 - 4 inches deep, alkaline and lacking in nutrition. Weeds were also a pain in the neck. Through mulching for 9 years, I've increased the soil depth to a foot in most places, and the soil is highly nutritious and full of beneficial life forms. Trees that were previously sickly and chlorotic are now thriving. And, I'm able to grow my fruit totally organically. The price is a little more nitrogen to the mangos, but the net benefit is highly positive.

So, I still recommend doing it, unless you already have acidic volcanic soil. The other nice thing is, the nitrate doesn't last for long. So, when I quit mulching, the benefits of organic soil remain, but the mangoes no longer deal with high nitrate. Very much a long term benfit.

I can tell you that it does increase the soil nitrogen levels dramatically, which is not ideal for mango trees. The trees on my mulched lot grow way more than the ones on the lot that I just planted out (which has very low nitrogen). So, I do tend to get a lot more growth on the mangoes that I would like.

I was think that and that may be Gary's reasoning.  I wonder if it could have an adverse effect on fruit production at any point?
Jeff  :-)

LivingParadise

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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2016, 06:09:17 PM »
In response to a post above which - disturbingly - went unchallenged, Roundup has been found by studies to cause cancer. The World Health  Organization’s  (WHO’s)  cancer  authorities – the International  Agency  for  Research  on  Cancer  (IARC) – determined that glyphosate is carcinogenic to humans. Exposure to 2,4-D and dicamba is linked to non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, the same cancer with which glyphosate has been associated.  Herbicide exposure in general is also linked to increased rates of Parkinson’s disease. The IARC is the world's leading authority on cancer, and unlike many other organizations, has no financial pressure from corporations to fudge their numbers or turn a blind eye to sound medical evidence and replicated studies. Additionally, massive use of glyphosate with Roundup Ready crops has  generated an epidemic of  glyphosate-resistant weeds, and the development of GE crops resistant to herbicides such as 2,4-D and dicamba is in turn generating an unprecedented and increasingly toxic explosion of weed resistance and herbicide use in US agriculture. If you don't want to give your family cancer and Parkinson's, and increase the number of super-weeds in the world like overuse of antibiotics increases super-viruses, don't use them! Weeds, after all, are not going to kill you. Weed killer, on the other hand, will.
-----

There are a lot of things to try in addition to those already mentioned here. First, for small areas to do by hand, I have found that a Hula Hoe is very easy - you can use it standing up, moving it back and forth sort of like a vacuum, and it pulls the weeds right out. For more stubborn weeds, you can sharpen one edge of it and use it to hack roots very sharply - I have beat the hell out of certain tough weeds and small invasive trees, and the Hula Hoe is none the worse for wear, but the weeds sure are!

Another option is to use Australian Pine needles - these are not actually pines, and are invasive in Florida and some other areas with similar climate. If you happen to have access to them, they are easy to get in large quantity, and the reason they are so terrible is that the needles are notorious for making it difficult for nearly anything to grow through them. They are not actually pine though, so unfortunately you can't use them in composting to enhance the acidity of soil - but you CAN use them as very effective mulching for already-established plants, and usually people are only too happy to have someone truck out the huge pile of needles (actually tiny green branches, not needles) in their yard.

You can also use intentional ground covers that are likely to choke out the weeds, or make them invisible. There are quite a few nitrogen-fixing options you could choose if you want to help bordering plants. You could also choose to keep weeds that use minimal resources and look attractive, or are useful in their own right, and get rid of the other species.

Another option is to put hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle and spray very directly onto only the plants you want to be rid of - there is no harmful effect on the environment, and with 1 or 2 applications the weed will die. You can do the same with vinegar. But don't do this too close to the roots of plants you want to keep!


Also, make sure to identify any "weed" before trying to remove it. A lot of plants traditionally identified as "weeds" are actually more beneficial as food, and in some cases tastier, than the plants you're growing intentionally! For example, purslane, amaranth, dandelion, plantain, chickweed, and dollarweed are all examples of EXTREMELY nutritious (and often delicious!) plants that you may be so lucky as to have growing for free. Don't kill yourself ripping them out by hand, or pouring poisons all over where you live - just go out into your yard when it's time for a meal and gather some fresh greens to sautee or make a salad with! Many of these have very strong medicinal properties, are anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, and can really boost your immune system as well. Many can even out blood sugar and manage diabetes, or in the case of plants like amaranth provide a complete protein in a large enough quantity to replace expensive meat. There is a long list of the "weeds" in Florida, for example, that are edible, and are far better for you and fresher than the things you throw your money away on at the grocery store. So carefully identify the plant FIRST, before you throw away the thing that could possibly save you from a heart attack, or costly trips to the doctor to get Rxs to manage chronic diseases you could have managed, with the free plant you were hell-bent on eliminating from your yard.

I don't think it's worth obsessing over ridding the yard of ALL unintentional growers. Keep in mind, plants fruit just fine in the wild with plenty of competition, and to a certain extent, a little grab for resources encourages them to be stronger and more resilient. They have to work for their food so they don't get complacent. Not to the point of letting them get starved out, of course, but a few weeds here and there are not going to stop a healthy tree or shrub from fruiting.

There original post, which was a few years ago, mentioned shade cover, and I would just note that shade does not mean one will eliminate weeds. There are different types of weeds that like different conditions. Outside of invasives, there is no real definition of the word weed - it's just a plant that you didn't intend to grow. Some of them are far more beneficial than you realize either to the garden, to getting rid of certain pests, or as additional food or medicine. An unintentional plant can grow in shade, in sun, in bogs, in desert... plants grow everywhere - even in rocks! So shade is not going to stop plants from growing, not at all!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 06:16:02 PM by LivingParadise »

treefrog

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Re: Weed abatement
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2016, 06:58:44 PM »
i've had good results with a "hula hoe."  they come in several brands and with several names.  basically it is a stirrup-shaped blade on a handle.  it cuts the weeds at or a little below ground level.  it can be used to cut under the mulch at ground level.  you may need to rake the mulch back smooth.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hula+hoe&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit952atrLMAhWEVD4KHXJwBY8Q_AUICCgC&biw=1467&bih=655
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