Dragon Fruit thread.

[RobPatterson]

If the plants don't have much old growth, that could be why they're not flowering. Flowers come from hardened growth. Also, it's better if the plant has reached a good size. All the cuttings grown plants have been around for at least decades but each segment has an age that's much younger. Generally, people use the weight to estimate general readiness to hold fruit.

And of course weight is a factor of size, and size is a factor of growth. You could, theoretically, trim down a plant to a single long branch and it would produce fruit, once it has reached proper age and hardened(don't do this btw). Like most fruit bearing annuals, you get this years fruit off of last years branches, so once you have a plant of sufficient age, you'll get fruit. Each year you should see more fruit produced as more branches become 'mature' and are capable of supporting the proper chemistry for fruit production. Also, you'll start to get some crowding as branches start to overlap and cover each other. Once you reach this state, its time to start thinking about pruning your canopy.
I tend to 'comb out' plants as they develop, trying to make sure the branches grow in parallel, next to each other, not just randomly like morning hair. This allows for more productive branches per plant, which is very helpful if youre working with limited space, like I am. But, eventually, theres enough overlap that you have to start trimming back excess branches. Generally, not counting the cutting to maintain shape or bad branch locations, I tend to cut out the branches furthest into the plant. A branch needs proper sunlight to produce fruit, and older deeper branches tend to have fewer useable fruiting points remaining, so they are the first to get removed, and they also generally make the best cuttings for new plants, as they are fully matured.
Speaking of maturity, another thing Ive noticed is that most new growth, flowers or branches, takes place on the side of the stem that is facing up. I'm really not sure if this is a sunlight thing or some other mechanism in the plant, but it does seem to be happening

[merce3]

does anyone know what type of dragon fruit this is?

That appears to be something close to, if not, the S-8 variety based on what I can see from the plants branch. For plant ID, showing the plant itself is usually more helpful than pictures of the flowers. Although, the flower stem does seem to be showing a lighter green than what I'm used to seeing, which might make it a close relative of S-8, or it could just be a slight variance in available lighting or available fertilizer nutrients (i.e. even same species don't always look exactly alike).
Also, as a side note, I believe DNA testing they've done at the research center here in Irvine shows that Voodoo Child and Thompson S-8 "Sugar Dragon" are not the same plant.
BTW, the other plant in the background, without the flower, looks to be something of a pink variety, Haley's Comet or Physical Graffiti possibly.

thanks! i will take pics of the segments for a better idea. i remember that the edges are more rounded than the others that i have growing. also, it appears to need cross-pollination. i actually thought it was houghton, which one of them is supposed to be, but my labels rubbed off. you are right about the physical grafitti though... what led you to that conclusion?

[RobPatterson]

I have PG and Haley's Comet growing at my house, and I'm familiar with their shape. Its a 'traditional' pink variety, and they all share the same visual appearance. There might be others that are close as well, such as "Delight", which bears pink fruit, but Ive never seen that plant in the flesh. As for your other plant, the one with the flower, Its possible that it is one of the "parent species" of the S-8, as ive heard that name before. When you crossbreed, you get a mostly random set of the characteristics of both plants, which is why improving the fruit is so difficult; You never know if your experimental plants are going to be better, worse or sideways on the likeability scale. Plus it can take up to 2 years to even get a result to test.
However, after a while, you do start to be able to notice subtle differences in plants. The color of the skin, curvature of what I refer to as the 'scalloping' on the branch edges, the number of thorns and their appearance, even an occasional subtle twist in the development of the branches (which seems to be unique to some pink varieties). For example, I have a variety that I believe is a seed start that looks very similar to S-8, but has slightly shorter scalloping and very pronounced thorns, and if you weren't paying too much attention you'd think they were the same plant. But it fruited for the first time last year and produced a rounder, redder fruit than the S-8. It also has larger flower buds and blooms. I should be able to get more definitive answers this year from a full season, but its just another example of the wide range of plants we're dealing with, and how keeping up on naming can help keeping them straight.

[merce3]

Thanks again... here is another picture with newly forming fruit

[Sandy.L]

BTW, if anyone in the So Cal area (I Live in Ontario, by the airport) is interested in a few Thompson S-8 cuttings, I have some to hand out. Go ahead and contact me directly, via email, so we're not cluttering up the forum.

I wish I lived near by, that's so nice of you. I have one and am waiting for it to root.
I'm wondering have you tried the fruit from this variety?

Yes, the S-8 is also my favorite variety of dragon fruit, both in taste and its versatility. It has the most "berry" flavor of all the varieties Ive tried, so its the one best suited for showing off to new people who have never tried them before. I like to present them in sets, one solid white and one Sugar Dragon so people can see the contrast in appearance and the wide range of flavor. Also, the S-8 is very good for culinary use, for making jams and jellies, sauces, toppings and also makes a wonderful ice cream. My small yard doesn't allow me to mass produce fruit, but I've tried making dehydrated fruit "chips", but they came out more like jerky or fruit roll-up, but were still tasty.
The only drawback with S-8 is the size, as they are one of the smallest dragon fruit types. The peeled fruit runs the size range from hens eggs to goose eggs, although the plants can produce quite heavily if conditions are right. Once, when I was down in Fallbrook at Linda and Ghery's ranch, they have a plot with dozens of S-8's set up very well, they were bearing 50-100 fruit per plant, per flower flush, with some plants having flowers at every thorn point down a branch. BTW, to give credit where its due, Linda and Ghery (at Elk Creek farm in Fallbrook, CA) are the distribution source of a large percentage of the S-8 you see being talked about, especially in California. They received their plants directly from Paul Thompson, who was a friend of theirs, and they've made a real effort to share this species with others, and have been very helpful with not only spreading the word about dragon fruit, but trying to keep a handle on a continuity of species naming and proper growing techniques. They have always been very generous with their knowledge.

Yes! I too hope to share the flavor of different dragon fruit varieties. I have relatives that have tried the ones you get from the store and it was a huge disappointment to them to the point they never touched another from then on. But I told them, there's more than just one variety of dragon fruit each with a slightly different taste. And I hope to one day be able to share the fruit of my work when my dragon fruit plants are mature and healthy enough to set fruit especially the S8. Hopefully then , it'll change their mindset.
And I hope to one day be able to visit Linda's farm and see all those amazing dragon fruit they have growing there.
And now my mouth is watering just thinking that the S8 has a berry taste. I love fruit roll ups... Lol

[ricshaw]

Today at a nonfruit activitity, this guy comes up and gives my friend and I two big branches of Dragon Fruit with a dozen short branches hanging off each. Apparently at a previous meeting my friend had mentioned that we grew Dragon Friut and this guy (I still don't know his name) brought some Dragon Fruit plant today from a DF he really liked to share. Someone asked what color was the flesh. He said "white". I thought; all I need, another unnamed DF... until he went on-and-on about how big and how sweet the fruit was. I decided I would have to give the plant a try.  I gave some of the cuttings off mine to another guy who was interested. We were near Westminister, CA. I suspect that this will be a large fruit Vietnamese White type variety.

[RobPatterson]

One thing about white fruit varieties. It does seem that the whited the flesh, the sweeter the fruit tends to be. Most of the chain store bought fruit are imported from overseas and are not fully ripe when picked. Also, they are from older farms, which tend to grow fruit on the older plants, some of which predate the recent work done improving the quality of the product. If a white variety has a 'milky' or somewhat translucent flesh, odds are its going to be lower in sugar. If the fruit looks more like black dots on white paper, its going to be a crisper, sweeter taste.

This is an example of what I mean.

[RobPatterson]

Thanks again... here is another picture with newly forming fruit

Here are a couple images of S-8 and the cousin variety I'm currently calling Kingthorn. You can see the similar plant structure and coloration, but the flower buds have much more red in them, which is what leads me to think you're variety isn't S-8, but another genetic cousin somewhere in the same family tree.

[Sandy.L]

Thanks again... here is another picture with newly forming fruit

Here are a couple images of S-8 and the cousin variety I'm currently calling Kingthorn. You can see the similar plant structure and coloration, but the flower buds have much more red in them, which is what leads me to think you're variety isn't S-8, but another genetic cousin somewhere in the same family tree.

Is the first picture S8?

[merce3]

Thanks again... here is another picture with newly forming fruit

Here are a couple images of S-8 and the cousin variety I'm currently calling Kingthorn. You can see the similar plant structure and coloration, but the flower buds have much more red in them, which is what leads me to think you're variety isn't S-8, but another genetic cousin somewhere in the same family tree.

Thanks a lot. I will post more pictures after the fruit develops

[Rnguyen]

Also, you'll start to get some crowding as branches start to overlap and cover each other. Once you reach this state, its time to start thinking about pruning your canopy.
I tend to 'comb out' plants as they develop, trying to make sure the branches grow in parallel, next to each other, not just randomly like morning hair. This allows for more productive branches per plant, which is very helpful if youre working with limited space, like I am. But, eventually, theres enough overlap that you have to start trimming back excess branches.

Rob, can we see a picture of your setup? I want to prune my DF to make them more manageable since I also have limited space.

[RobPatterson]

Here are some pics of how I have my plants growing. There are 2 main areas, the shorter plants and the tall trellis. The short plants are basic 4x4 by 8ft redwood posts buried 30 inches down and wrapped in burlap. The clinging roots don't like sticking to treated wood or redwood, so if you wrap the posts in burlap fabric (potato sack material, available by the roll at most hardware stores), it gives the air roots something to weave into and hold on. Also, if possible, you should coat the buried section in a waterproofer, like roofing tar or something thick and tough before you bury them, to help prevent any remaining rot chance. The rest of it is just a series of 3ft lumber pieces I built to make a very open ladder-like trellis. I was able to get a good deal on a large quantity of Trex composite material pieces I used for my creations, but anything weather-resistant will work. the basic idea is to support the weight of the branches so the stress of them hanging down doesn't pull them out of their joints at the main plant. Any shape will work, and you can build them to suit your location's needs.
The second area is just a much larger version of the first, except it is mostly free-standing, with cross supports to my house. This is my southern facing area, which is fairly limited in size, so I had to go with tall, narrow planting rather than wide, rounded canopies. The main problem I have with this arrangement is that most of the plants there receive almost no direct sunlight for 3 months of the year due to it being blocked out by my neighbor's house. Later in the season, when the sun gets higher, I tend to get my first fruit higher in the plants, so harvesting off a ladder is necessary. This is by no means an ideal way to grow plants, but it was the best I could do with the situation at hand.
I hope this helps to give you some ideas for your own situation.

[khoi1976]

Need help . My suppose to be self pollenate DF . I hand pollen the DF with its own pollen . Few day later the DF turn yellow and fell off. How can I get that DF to produce fruit . I'm planting more then one varieties in on trellises. I want to try to cross pollenate them but all the bud bloom  different time .

[ricshaw]

Need help . My suppose to be self pollenate DF . I hand pollen the DF with its own pollen . Few day later the DF turn yellow and fell off. How can I get that DF to produce fruit . I'm planting more then one varieties in on trellises. I want to try to cross pollenate them but all the bud bloom  different time .

I had the same problem until I was finally able to cross pollinate.

[khoi1976]

Great thank you .now I have to wait for the other varieties to catch up and hope they all bloom at the same time so I can cross pollenate them. I guess all the self Pollenate  that people claim aren't self  pollenate.

[Rnguyen]

Here are some pics of how I have my plants growing. There are 2 main areas, the shorter plants and the tall trellis. The short plants are basic 4x4 by 8ft redwood posts buried 30 inches down and wrapped in burlap. The clinging roots don't like sticking to treated wood or redwood, so if you wrap the posts in burlap fabric (potato sack material, available by the roll at most hardware stores), it gives the air roots something to weave into and hold on. Also, if possible, you should coat the buried section in a waterproofer, like roofing tar or something thick and tough before you bury them, to help prevent any remaining rot chance. The rest of it is just a series of 3ft lumber pieces I built to make a very open ladder-like trellis. I was able to get a good deal on a large quantity of Trex composite material pieces I used for my creations, but anything weather-resistant will work. the basic idea is to support the weight of the branches so the stress of them hanging down doesn't pull them out of their joints at the main plant. Any shape will work, and you can build them to suit your location's needs.
The second area is just a much larger version of the first, except it is mostly free-standing, with cross supports to my house. This is my southern facing area, which is fairly limited in size, so I had to go with tall, narrow planting rather than wide, rounded canopies. The main problem I have with this arrangement is that most of the plants there receive almost no direct sunlight for 3 months of the year due to it being blocked out by my neighbor's house. Later in the season, when the sun gets higher, I tend to get my first fruit higher in the plants, so harvesting off a ladder is necessary. This is by no means an ideal way to grow plants, but it was the best I could do with the situation at hand.
I hope this helps to give you some ideas for your own situation.

Thanks Rob! This helps.

[ricshaw]

Great thank you .now I have to wait for the other varieties to catch up and hope they all bloom at the same time so I can cross pollenate them. I guess all the self Pollenate  that people claim aren't self  pollenate.

Part of the problem for us newbies... is there can be some confusion between "hand pollination" and "self pollination". 

[RobPatterson]

Great thank you .now I have to wait for the other varieties to catch up and hope they all bloom at the same time so I can cross pollenate them. I guess all the self Pollenate  that people claim aren't self  pollenate.

I think you might be confusing self pollinating with self fertile. Self fertile varieties can be grown by themselves and do not require a differing species' pollen to produce fruit. A self pollinating plant is self fertile, but also has the ability to pollenate itself without outside help. Humans, bees and other outside influences count towards removing a self pollinating status. Only plants that can produce fruit on their own, with nothing more then maybe a slight breeze count as self pollinating. Your pictures show a yellow Megalanthus variety, and I'm fairly certain that this type is not self fertile to begin with.

[Rtreid]

does anyone know what type of dragon fruit this is?

That appears to be something close to, if not, the S-8 variety based on what I can see from the plants branch. For plant ID, showing the plant itself is usually more helpful than pictures of the flowers. Although, the flower stem does seem to be showing a lighter green than what I'm used to seeing, which might make it a close relative of S-8, or it could just be a slight variance in available lighting or available fertilizer nutrients (i.e. even same species don't always look exactly alike).
Also, as a side note, I believe DNA testing they've done at the research center here in Irvine shows that Voodoo Child and Thompson S-8 "Sugar Dragon" are not the same plant.
BTW, the other plant in the background, without the flower, looks to be something of a pink variety, Haley's Comet or Physical Graffiti possibly.

thanks! i will take pics of the segments for a better idea. i remember that the edges are more rounded than the others that i have growing. also, it appears to need cross-pollination. i actually thought it was houghton, which one of them is supposed to be, but my labels rubbed off. you are right about the physical grafitti though... what led you to that conclusion?

Merce,

If one of your plants is supposed to be Houghton, it is probably the one in the photo.  As Rob said, the photo looks a lot like S-8, and Houghton is pretty much indistinguishable from Houghton (which is a parent of S-8). There is a slight difference in the distance between the aureoles and the spine number/length, but at a glance they are hard to tell apart.

[marklee]

Here is one of the ways I trellis my Pitahayas, this is a Houghton, then a Voodoo Child, and then a Megalanthus on the two cables. They have been in the ground about 6 years and produce at least 150 fruit each year. The present photo shows what it looks like after a heavy pruning last week. The plants are flowering great. However I failed to secure one pole and with the weight of the plants the cables have really sagged.

[khoi1976]

Can I cross pollenate from one flower to another flower from the same dragonfruit plant?  Or it has to be a different  flower from a different dragonfruit plant.
Thanks

[ricshaw]

Can I cross pollenate from one flower to another flower from the same dragonfruit plant?  Or it has to be a different  flower from a different dragonfruit plant.
Thanks

It has been my experience... Cross pollinate from one flower to a flower on a different variety plant.

[khoi1976]

That suck, I have like 20+ bud on my DF ,so far 2 of the bud bloom and hand pollenate them with it self. They just turn yellow and fall off .

[gunnar429]

That suck, I have like 20+ bud on my DF ,so far 2 of the bud bloom and hand pollenate them with it self. They just turn yellow and fall off .

This is why many recommend growing a large white variety as a pollinator

[ricshaw]

That suck, I have like 20+ bud on my DF ,so far 2 of the bud bloom and hand pollenate them with it self. They just turn yellow and fall off .

Your luck will change when you have pollen from another, unrelated plant.