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Author Topic: Pouteria torta  (Read 3297 times)

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Pouteria torta
« on: November 03, 2015, 12:58:16 PM »
Any one have any experience with this tree? Is there any fruiting in Fla?

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 01:14:28 PM »
had'm, killed'm, guessing it was another one of these jinxed by the cerrado curse...i know there are a few subspecies...I grew the most common one (from the Cerrado I assume), as pictured in Brazilian fruits and cultivated exotics....and also grew a subspecies, gallifructa from Oscar.

seemed like the gallifructa was much faster growing, and easier to keep happy...but I ended up getting rid of all of them.

i think my buddy was able to keep a gallifructa growing happily on city water...which was surprising, given that mine declined...(I suppose he was fertilizing them, or hitting them with micronutrients)

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 01:26:47 PM »
So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 01:39:38 PM »
So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

i think the one u saw is gallifructa, and doesn't come from the cerrado...
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 01:52:29 PM »
My experience with a ~6m tree in Hawai'i (wet climate, low elevation) is that it makes a lot of fruit, the seeds germinate quickly and the fruit is very delicious, very sweet, golf ball size and similar to the non-gelatinous part of abiu--more milky and spongey than abiu. I'm planning to plant a few.
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 02:32:12 PM »
It seems very good fruit!

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 03:50:45 PM »
So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

There are at least 4 subspecies, and only one is from the cerrado. The one that is from the cerrado didn't survive long for me. I have another 2 subspecies growing fine, one is the gallifructa, the one that looks like a rambutan, and another one, forget subspecies name right now, that is fuzzy on exterior and tastes very similar to an abiu. Both are growing well and getting large, but neither have fruited yet.
PS i've posted about this before with all 4 subspecies names for anyone that wants to search it inside the forum and get further details.
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 04:05:25 PM »
Hello friends,

I have in growing two types of P Torta, a joint that produces many fruits in April and May, in my area I call Ac Iron, and has this other I'm growing, it is called Guapeva de altitude, I got to this my great friend of the video.

This variety is Top, much better than these wild collections of the cerrado.

Pouteria Torta, hold up well to cold and like rain, without cerrado curse, it has a variety burning the tips of the leaves in the winter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncCnQGhDsY

Video in Portuguese.
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2015, 06:44:56 PM »
So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

There are at least 4 subspecies, and only one is from the cerrado. The one that is from the cerrado didn't survive long for me. I have another 2 subspecies growing fine, one is the gallifructa, the one that looks like a rambutan, and another one, forget subspecies name right now, that is fuzzy on exterior and tastes very similar to an abiu. Both are growing well and getting large, but neither have fruited yet.
PS i've posted about this before with all 4 subspecies names for anyone that wants to search it inside the forum and get further details.

Oscar do you have pics of the trees?

nelesedulis thank you for the video

So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

i think the one u saw is gallifructa, and doesn't come from the cerrado...

Thanks for the correction

Wonder what would work for roots? Abiu maybe?

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2015, 07:17:11 PM »
Correct Gallifructa is not native to the cerrado, but the atlantic coast of northeastern Brazil, states of Pernambuco, Sergipe and Bahia, just without the cerrado curse.
For this location, this tree loves water and the sun.



So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

i think the one u saw is gallifructa, and doesn't come from the cerrado...
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2015, 10:53:01 PM »
I couldn't find oscars post but the four subspecies are: torta, tuberculata, glabra and gallifructa i believe.

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2015, 04:53:59 AM »
I couldn't find oscars post but the four subspecies are: torta, tuberculata, glabra and gallifructa i believe.


The 2 subspecies of torta i have growing are glabra and gallifructa.
Here is the previous post: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=125.msg1480#msg1480

The gallifructa i think will handle more cold than the cerrado (savanna) type because gallifructa is from highlands of Guatemala, where it gets quite cool and foggy, but not freezing!
I've had the Pouteria torta subsp. glabra here. Also has fuzzy orange exterior, just like the cerrado fruit you mention. But the glabra had very nice taste. Some sweeter than abiu. But the fruit is quite smaller than abiu. But the glabra tree seems more disease resistant than abiu. So each has it's own good/bad.
I tried to grow the cerrado type here and they just don't like our high humidity and rainfall.
BTW, the 4 subspecies of torta are
cerrado type (savannas of Brazil) Pouteria torta subsp. torta
Central American type: Pouteria torta subsp. gallifructa
Pouteria torta subsp. tuberculata
Pouteria torta subsp. glabra
(Info from Pennington's Flora Neotropica, Sapotacea monograph)
Oscar

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2015, 04:56:22 AM »
Correct Gallifructa is not native to the cerrado, but the atlantic coast of northeastern Brazil, states of Pernambuco, Sergipe and Bahia, just without the cerrado curse.
For this location, this tree loves water and the sun.



So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

i think the one u saw is gallifructa, and doesn't come from the cerrado...

Gallifructa is also native to Guatemala. The ones in Guatemala may be different forms than the ones native to Brazil. Not sure. But even in Guatemala there are yellow and red types of gallifructa. BTW the ones i sent to people were the yellow types, which are from highlands Guatemala.
Oscar

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2015, 06:43:31 AM »
Okay, Mr.Oscar
P.Torta GalliFructa in Guatemala there are also, what I meant is that it is not the cerrado.
Thanks for the correction, because  I forgot to inform that another source of the tree.




Correct Gallifructa is not native to the cerrado, but the atlantic coast of northeastern Brazil, states of Pernambuco, Sergipe and Bahia, just without the cerrado curse.
For this location, this tree loves water and the sun.



So it's another Cerrado tree... Thanks for the info Adam, some of the pictures I have seen of the fruit look close to the pics of the nuaga sapote fruit from Grimal grove, but that tree came from a different part of South America. I guess I will have to get seeds...

i think the one u saw is gallifructa, and doesn't come from the cerrado...

Gallifructa is also native to Guatemala. The ones in Guatemala may be different forms than the ones native to Brazil. Not sure. But even in Guatemala there are yellow and red types of gallifructa. BTW the ones i sent to people were the yellow types, which are from highlands Guatemala.
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2015, 07:29:10 AM »
Thank you all for the info.

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2015, 02:09:34 PM »
Hi Neles,

any chance to get some guapeva seeds?

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2015, 07:18:03 PM »
I would love to attempt to grow any of these. Is the nuaga sapote from Grimal Grove actually Gallifructa or are both trees there? Has anyone found any leads for seeds? My internet search didn't turn anything up. Would they be fruiting around now in the northern hemisphere? This seems like a very worth while and rare one.
-Josh

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2015, 06:14:00 AM »
If it is a torta, it is not a cold hardy subspecies there is a seedling from that tree that is struggling at Chris Rolland's house. The seeds for the tree at Grimal Grove came from the Peruvian Amazon. It was IDed as Pouteria nawe but that could be a miss id.

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2015, 02:10:45 PM »
Some pics and notes on Pouteria torta from one particular tree in the South Hilo district of Hawai'i island around 100m elevation.



Here's the tree with its proud papa, my friend Kim. It was probably planted less than 10 years ago, exact age unknown. Kim said he might've gotten the seed from Oscar, but he doesn't remember for sure. It's been fruiting for several years. Kim told me that when it was really small somebody ran over it with a lawn mower and it was reduced to almost nothing, but it grew back into a beautiful, productive tree.



It fruits twice a year I think. This current fruiting is maybe about 200 fruits.



The outside has a sparse layer of very soft fuzz that can be easily washed off or ignored.



The size of the fruits vary by about 1cm in diameter. This sampling of fruit is representative of the largest size. These 11 fruits ranged from 48mm to 56mm in diameter.



So far I've seen exactly one seed in every fruit. The seeds are about 25mm in length typically. The anomalous small one in this pictured batch came from one of the larger fruits. A negligibly small amount of flesh sticks to the seed, just like abiu, and quite unlike the problematic cases like jaboticaba, santol, pulasan, etc.

The flavor is fantastic, an elite fruit very similar to Pouteria caimito and Chrysophyllum caimito, very sweet, delicate, zero sourness. A small bit of latex on the lips is a trivial nuisance, slightly worse than a typical abiu. Whereas an abiu has a mostly gelatinous texture, the torta is a bit spongy and more like C. caimito. Sometimes I wonder if the flavor is even better than abiu. I don't identify a caramel flavor like abiu, but it's hard to pin down those subtle sensations. Unlike abiu, the boundary between tasty flesh and unappealing rind is slightly murky, so I occasionally scrape a little bit of rind with my spoon. It's mildly bitter, but not unpleasant at all, and not anything like the meal-destroying foulness of accidentally ingested slivers of mangosteen rind.

The fruit show very little damage from fruit flies. There are some abiu trees a few hundred meters away that get ravaged by fruit flies. The shelf life is long, just like abiu. They can sit in the fridge for a few weeks in excellent condition.




« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 02:15:46 PM by mikemap »
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2015, 04:00:49 PM »
It's the same variety that I have bearing fruit.
we call Abiu Piloso (hair abiu) or Ac Ferro, because the wood is as hard as iron. ferro=Iron
That variety I posted the video link is more tasty, anyway, congratulations to post the photos, it's good that animates people forum to buy seeds when I for my seeds for sale!

Joke about selling seeds, I do not sell my seed.

In a few days I'll post a picture of my Guapeva altitude and P.Torta.







Some pics and notes on Pouteria torta from one particular tree in the South Hilo district of Hawai'i island around 100m elevation.



Here's the tree with its proud papa, my friend Kim. It was probably planted less than 10 years ago, exact age unknown. Kim said he might've gotten the seed from Oscar, but he doesn't remember for sure. It's been fruiting for several years. Kim told me that when it was really small somebody ran over it with a lawn mower and it was reduced to almost nothing, but it grew back into a beautiful, productive tree.



It fruits twice a year I think. This current fruiting is maybe about 200 fruits.



The outside has a sparse layer of very soft fuzz that can be easily washed off or ignored.



The size of the fruits vary by about 1cm in diameter. This sampling of fruit is representative of the largest size. These 11 fruits ranged from 48mm to 56mm in diameter.



So far I've seen exactly one seed in every fruit. The seeds are about 25mm in length typically. The anomalous small one in this pictured batch came from one of the larger fruits. A negligibly small amount of flesh sticks to the seed, just like abiu, and quite unlike the problematic cases like jaboticaba, santol, pulasan, etc.

The flavor is fantastic, an elite fruit very similar to Pouteria caimito and Chrysophyllum caimito, very sweet, delicate, zero sourness. A small bit of latex on the lips is a trivial nuisance, slightly worse than a typical abiu. Whereas an abiu has a mostly gelatinous texture, the torta is a bit spongy and more like C. caimito. Sometimes I wonder if the flavor is even better than abiu. I don't identify a caramel flavor like abiu, but it's hard to pin down those subtle sensations. Unlike abiu, the boundary between tasty flesh and unappealing rind is slightly murky, so I occasionally scrape a little bit of rind with my spoon. It's mildly bitter, but not unpleasant at all, and not anything like the meal-destroying foulness of accidentally ingested slivers of mangosteen rind.

The fruit show very little damage from fruit flies. There are some abiu trees a few hundred meters away that get ravaged by fruit flies. The shelf life is long, just like abiu. They can sit in the fridge for a few weeks in excellent condition.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 04:06:17 PM by nelesedulis »
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2015, 12:26:04 AM »
Some pics and notes on Pouteria torta from one particular tree in the South Hilo district of Hawai'i island around 100m elevation.

Here's the tree with its proud papa, my friend Kim. It was probably planted less than 10 years ago, exact age unknown. Kim said he might've gotten the seed from Oscar, but he doesn't remember for sure. It's been fruiting for several years. Kim told me that when it was really small somebody ran over it with a lawn mower and it was reduced to almost nothing, but it grew back into a beautiful, productive tree.

It fruits twice a year I think. This current fruiting is maybe about 200 fruits.


The outside has a sparse layer of very soft fuzz that can be easily washed off or ignored.


The size of the fruits vary by about 1cm in diameter. This sampling of fruit is representative of the largest size. These 11 fruits ranged from 48mm to 56mm in diameter.

So far I've seen exactly one seed in every fruit. The seeds are about 25mm in length typically. The anomalous small one in this pictured batch came from one of the larger fruits. A negligibly small amount of flesh sticks to the seed, just like abiu, and quite unlike the problematic cases like jaboticaba, santol, pulasan, etc.

The flavor is fantastic, an elite fruit very similar to Pouteria caimito and Chrysophyllum caimito, very sweet, delicate, zero sourness. A small bit of latex on the lips is a trivial nuisance, slightly worse than a typical abiu. Whereas an abiu has a mostly gelatinous texture, the torta is a bit spongy and more like C. caimito. Sometimes I wonder if the flavor is even better than abiu. I don't identify a caramel flavor like abiu, but it's hard to pin down those subtle sensations. Unlike abiu, the boundary between tasty flesh and unappealing rind is slightly murky, so I occasionally scrape a little bit of rind with my spoon. It's mildly bitter, but not unpleasant at all, and not anything like the meal-destroying foulness of accidentally ingested slivers of mangosteen rind.

The fruit show very little damage from fruit flies. There are some abiu trees a few hundred meters away that get ravaged by fruit flies. The shelf life is long, just like abiu. They can sit in the fridge for a few weeks in excellent condition.

Yes Kim bought that plant from me at a BIAN plant sale. I think the reason the fruit flies don't sting this fruit is due to the exterior fuzz.
Oscar

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2015, 12:30:08 AM »
Thanks mikemap for the detailed description and great pics!
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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2015, 04:50:56 PM »
So its torta var glabra then?

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2015, 01:09:49 PM »
I got to try some of these ssp glabras courtesy of Mike & Kim.  I have got to back up Mike with his assessment.  The flavor is very nice, comparable to a nice abiu.  If found it very similar to that fruity vanilla custard flavor & texture of a just-ripe abiu -- before they get to the gelatinous texture.  I also agree that there seems to be just a tad more latex than a typical abiu but by no means objectionable.  I don't know if most people would rank this as "elite" though as it is a little small with a fair amount of waste (but the flesh is by no means "scant").  It is definitely a fruit you can binge on, like a good abiu.  I do have to caution that if you scrape the peel a little too aggressively, it does have a distinct bitterness.  I managed to do this last two times I have been eating these -- it was the last bite & you really don't want to stop so you scrape just a little too much.  Not a "ruin your day" event but it does leave a bitter flavor in your mouth instead of the deliciousness of the fruit.

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Re: Pouteria torta
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 08:03:23 PM »
Hmm, which subspecies is this one, again?



I take it this is the aforementioned "Abiu Piloso (hair abiu)" - has anyone figured out the subspecies name?  Is it perhaps P. torta ssp. torta, the cerrado species?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 09:37:18 PM by KarenRei »
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