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Author Topic: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf  (Read 280 times)

sahai1

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Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« on: April 14, 2018, 12:50:50 AM »
Is absolutely delicious!  I will be planting more.  I took 6 cuttings, all took and rooted easily under shadecloth.

highly recommend.


pineislander

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sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 09:19:22 AM »
I wonder if they will follow up on that study.. here it says  "describe papaverine as a smooth muscle relaxant and vasodilator with recommended intake of 300 mg a day in doses of 150 mg every 12 hours. Those consuming 600 grams of leaves would achieve an intake of 3480 mg weekly"

So if I'm reading that right.. 600 grams contains 3480 mg of papaverine? so 1 gram contains 5.8 mg of papaverine.
So daily should not eat more than 25 grams of this leaf.  (stay in safe side of 12 hour dosage of 150mg)

Need to break out the scale and eyeball that..   Here only the tender shoots are eaten, I wonder if the study used all leaves, and if papaverine content increases with the age of the leaves. 

One thing I find weird is that it is eaten so commonly here, but never heard anything about the dangers of this leaf here.  I will do more research in Thai language about this, seems interesting.

DaveT

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 12:50:15 AM »
Yikes! I didn't know this. I have been maintaining a clump of phakwaan (ผ้กวาน) down at the local park. It was growing wild and we eat it from time to time, it is really delicious. I might be a bit more measured in my consumption now.

sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 01:43:03 AM »
Hi Dave, I am not that worried yet, some of my research went to fb posts and chatboards, only to find that many people reported immediate effects from eating fresh "Paakwan" which are headaches, nausiness, vomiting, which if you didn't feel, would mean you should be ok.  Which will be better explained below I think.  Also it is ผักหวาน, sweet 'leaf/vegetable' in Thai not ผักวาน, which might be translated as 'yesterday's vegetable'  :)

So from this page from Mahidol University

http://www.pharmacy.mahidol.ac.th/th/knowledge/article/145/%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99-%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD/
 
outlines 4 edible species of Sweet Leaf, and 1 toxic variety of sweet leaf. 

This chart shows the difference between between ผักหวาน (Sweet Leaf) and ผักหวานเมา (Sweet Leaf "mao' drunk)  I would need to do more research to understand what they are saying, I don't really understand the terms about sex of the flowers and shape of inflorescense.  The bottom two rows I do understand, showing measurements of the leaves, and how the non-toxic form has wider leaves.  The footnote says explicitly that Sweet Leaf "Mao" can cause death with high consumption.



So perhaps this is all just a misunderstanding of varieties?  I think Dave you better consider where you got your tree from and verify you have the correct variety.






luketrollope

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 03:00:17 AM »
people have been eating sweet leaf for hundreds of years with no problems. When it is concentrated in powdered form as a "super food" or weight loss gimmick there may be side effects. It has the same amount of protein dry weight as meat. I eat it most days and it is one of the hardiest green veg's around, a weed actually where I am from.  It was planted in my area as cattle fodder and spread from there.


greenman62

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 01:52:37 PM »
from Eattheweeds.com
they seem to think the poisoning issue is a bit overblown.
of course i would stay away from eating 1/2lb a day , continuously...
http://www.eattheweeds.com/edible-katuk-sauropus-androgynus-2/

i eat about 10-15 leaves a few times a week when im out nibbling.
i have no worries.
the leaf is a good flavor for a green leaf.
i have always referred to it as "Katuk".
ive gotten a couple of fruits. - more like a veg in consistancy
and not much to it.

BTW....
i had 4 plants (one was small/new from cutting)
2 died in the freeze and 2 are coming back slowly (it seems/ i hope)
i see a couple of small buds now.
it hit 20F in New Orleans... They are in ground and not well protected.

sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 09:14:57 PM »
hey just to mention if you like Pakwaan, I think you will like Magok Pa also, Spondias pinnata (L. f.) Kurz , มะกอกป่า

Tender leaves are citrusy, but no 'leafy green' aftertaste like tender cashew leaves.

It grows much like Neem, which means really really slow start, sometimes just all out death and hibernation, but then once it kicks in should grow very fast!  I left a 'dead' tree in the ground for nearly 2 months, just yesterday saw that it is growing wild now and also my Neem tree is taking off as well after near death.

Guanabanus

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 10:00:05 PM »
Distantly related to cassava.
Har

sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 12:09:37 AM »


DaveT

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 07:09:21 AM »
What is the difference between the มะกอกป่า and มะกอกส้มตำ. I have one in my front yard but it hasn't produced any fruit yet though the leaves are nice to eat. They do grow fast and I have already had to stump it after only 2 years. The branch which I cut off and threw on the ground also started to shoot very quickly. I might eventually grow these shoots instead of the full tree to try to contain the height. They are quite a handsome tree but they do get big.

Guanabanus

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 08:26:32 AM »
Sauropus and Manihot genera are both in the Euphorbiaceae family.
Har

sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 09:13:43 AM »
I believe is มะกอกส้มตำ is more commonly sold as มะกอกฝรั่ง, at least if you are shopping the trees and not the fruit.  Because Magok Somtum is grown for the fruits used in Somtum, but Magok Pa, or just Magok, is grown for the leaves, otherwise to be clear, you would say มะกอกกินใบ -- Magok for eating leaves
If that is correct, and there isn't another species of Magok I don't know about, that would make Magok Somtum this species:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondias_dulcis
So you should definitely look into getting a Magok Pa tree then, since the leaves are recognized as more delicious than Magok Farang.


What is the difference between the มะกอกป่า and มะกอกส้มตำ. I have one in my front yard but it hasn't produced any fruit yet though the leaves are nice to eat. They do grow fast and I have already had to stump it after only 2 years. The branch which I cut off and threw on the ground also started to shoot very quickly. I might eventually grow these shoots instead of the full tree to try to contain the height. They are quite a handsome tree but they do get big.

Here are a few studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4564651/


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17313033

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9143215

The first one was already linked above, and the second two are just abstracts... sadly the second one abstract states clearly they are just guessing the link :)    I saw in the similar links they did a 'real' study on rats and found nothing at all.  Perhaps they should move onto monkeys or pigs...  Since reading that Thai university article I am now even skeptical that these guys who did research in Taiwan had the genuine variety, since the Thai university even recognizes a similar looking tree with the same leaves, but only slight difference in leaf size and inflorescence as the one containing papaverine.

sahai1

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 10:29:43 PM »
Here is another one with a poisonous lookalike, I guess not common enough to do diet capsules yet! 

ผักหวานป่า - Jungle Sweet Leaf, Pak Waan Paa - Melientha sauvis PIERRE (Opiliaceae)

https://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/value_addition/Vegetables/070.html

This grows much larger, and is stumped to produce shoots.  Some people are successfully airlayering up to 24" branches.

I can not comment on taste, I am not growing this one yet. 

roblack

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Re: Sauropus androgynus - Sweet Leaf
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2018, 11:23:40 PM »
Have been growing and eating katuk for a couple of years now. Mix it in salads and soups, or just nibble when out in the yard. Never eat more that a couple of grams or so. Little flowers are thick and stout. They taste nutty. Good in salads.

My plant is 6 - 7 feet tall or more, grows in partial sun, and seems drought tolerant. Must've grown roots through the fabric pot, because it looks nice even when it hasn't got water for a while.

 

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