Author Topic: Multiple rootstock grafting  (Read 62742 times)

Ethan

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2012, 12:38:07 PM »
I've read where they will plant multiple jak seeds in the ground (7 of them) and as the seedlings grow up they will fuse them together into one tree, much like what Kevin is doing.  I've had thoughts about fusing (inarching) 3 varieties of jak together at the trunk so I can have a multigrafted jak tree. 8)

nice work gents,
-Ethan

CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »
Hi Kevin,
Those multi-root grafted Jacks look freak'n AWESOME 8) I totally agree with you...green stage has far higher takes than woody ;) I will inarch my Jacks, next year at 30 cm/12in height, so that I get some fruits below the graft union, on both rootstocks 8) I was also thinking of adding more rootstocks as the tree grows...more nutrients and water is absorbed, trees grows much faster, wind tolerant and production will be much earlier than grafted or seedling Jacks 8)

I have seen a Durian with 15 or + rootstocks 8) So...Sky's the limit ;D ;D ;D

Thanks a bunch for sharing :)

If Durian can handle 15+ rootstocks, I'd bet a jackfruit can too...  Guess I'll get busy grafting again to see if I can get a compact jackfruit tree to do this:

:)

I've been getting very fast growth on the jackfruit seedlings I've been keeping in my plant room over the summer; the night-time temperature never dips below 70 degrees (21 Celsius) and on a steady diet of low-dose fertilizer they are generally 30cm/12in tall within 3-4 weeks of planting the seed.  The seedling in the picture is 24in (60cm) tall but only 7 weeks old.  The larger leaves at the top grew after the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rootstocks were added. (Burned leaves happened when I let it grow too close to the light.)  Jackfruit seeds I've kept outdoors where temperatures range from 50F-100F are much more slow-growing; after 4 months they are 12in tall.

I've read where they will plant multiple jak seeds in the ground (7 of them) and as the seedlings grow up they will fuse them together into one tree, much like what Kevin is doing.  I've had thoughts about fusing (inarching) 3 varieties of jak together at the trunk so I can have a multigrafted jak tree. 8)

nice work gents,
-Ethan

Trying to create a chimera?  I've heard of that happening from grafting (several examples with citrus trees) but it is a fairly rare occurrence as I understand.

   Kevin

Ethan

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2012, 07:41:32 PM »
I've also thought about staking the grafts like a totem pole to get multiple varieties.  Chimera, that sounds like a good name for the plant.  Now to create it! Mwahahaha.

-Ethan

jwthought81

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2012, 12:52:11 AM »
I dont mean to hijack this thread, but in keeping with the multiple rootstock theme, do you all have any recommendations for rootstock to be grafted to dwarf variety mangos?  Could grocery store seeds be used with out altering the growth habits of the dwarf trees?

Thanks
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CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2012, 07:00:31 PM »
I dont mean to hijack this thread, but in keeping with the multiple rootstock theme, do you all have any recommendations for rootstock to be grafted to dwarf variety mangos?  Could grocery store seeds be used with out altering the growth habits of the dwarf trees?

Thanks

I can't really answer your question, except to say that (counter-intuitively) adding more rootstocks to a plant seems to make it more compact than if it were on a single rootstock.  I've only had a 2-rootstock mango for a month- both from unknown variety supermarket seeds- but the growth flush it sent out after I decapitated the second rootstock was noticeably more compact, and it started sending out side branches.

So to sort of answer your question, I think it may not matter what the seeds are- it seems that having multiple rootstocks acts to make a faster-growing yet more compact tree.  I'm planning on adding a lot of rootstocks to my Pickering mango soon, so I'll have a better answer within a year or so.

   Kevin

jwthought81

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2012, 08:07:04 PM »
Thanks Kevin.

 In the case of dwarf mangoes, isnt a compact tree kind of the idea?  Is this a bad thing?  Im considering doing this with my mallika or ice cream

Also, how old were the seedings when you grafted them?

Any pics?
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CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2012, 12:55:07 AM »
Thanks Kevin.

 In the case of dwarf mangoes, isnt a compact tree kind of the idea?  Is this a bad thing?  Im considering doing this with my mallika or ice cream

Also, how old were the seedings when you grafted them?

Any pics?

If you're looking for a tree which is small, precocious and productive, it seems like multiple rootstocks are the way to go.  It seems like a good thing to me!

These mango seedlings were about 6 weeks old when I approach-grafted them together:



(the tape above the approach graft is where I just veneer-grafted a Pickering scion on this afternoon; there are two more seeds germinating in the same pot for later additional rootstocks; the aluminum foil in the background is air-layers on some of my miracle fruit.)  If I had to do it again, I would have grafted them together at a younger age.  It seems that the "greener" and more pliable the stem you're working with, the easier the grafts seem to take.  I've even started approach-grafting jackfruit seedlings as soon as they develop their first leaf, about 2 weeks post seed-sowing:



The two very young stems on the left will almost certainly take based on my prior experience; the young stem on the right grafted onto the woodier stem only stands a 50% chance of taking.  Approach grafts allow you to try again if they fail the first time though- I've even had luck re-doing it in the same spot.

Young, pliable stems are going to be easier to work with if you want to create a poly-rootstock monstrosity:



That jackfruit plant has 7 healed rootstocks plus 7 more recently grafted on, another 6 ready to go in the next round, and 12 more seeds germinating in the pot...  So far it seems to be making the plants grow more vigorously while at the same time making them much more compact, but my oldest multi-rootstock experiment is only 4 months old.

   Kevin

Ethan

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2012, 03:14:05 AM »
When you finish your posts, you need to add a maniacal laugh and lighting crashing in the background. 

Pretty cool work there Kevin, it'll be interesting to see how your experiment progresses over the long term.  You've inspired me to try a few of my own.

good luck and thanks for informative posts,
-Ethan

Tropicdude

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2012, 11:50:10 AM »
So Kevin its ok to Approach graft, then add a scion after it takes? or do you recommend grafting the scion first before adding additional rootstocks.   I was was thinking maybe having the additional rootstocks would actually improve success of scion grafts later on ?
William
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lkailburn

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2012, 12:26:44 PM »
Nice work Kevin!

-Luke

CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2012, 01:12:23 PM »
So Kevin its ok to Approach graft, then add a scion after it takes? or do you recommend grafting the scion first before adding additional rootstocks.   I was was thinking maybe having the additional rootstocks would actually improve success of scion grafts later on ?

William,

I don't know which is better yet; I've only top-grafted onto a multi-rootstock plant once so far (the mango pictured above), less than 24 hours ago.  I would also think that having multiple rootstocks would improve the chance of an upper scion taking, but that's just a gut feeling.  I'm going to order 20 jackfruit scions from Oscar this week and graft half onto my 10 multiple-rootstock plants, and the other 10 onto single-rootstock plants of identical age, so in 4-6 weeks I'll have a better idea.

Nice work Kevin!

-Luke

Luke, if the Pickering scion takes on that plant, it's yours!  My "big" Pickering is flushing again now and I'll only have room for one over the winter...

   Kevin

jwthought81

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2012, 06:02:20 PM »
Really cool pics and also kind of disturbing :D

I'm planning on adding a lot of rootstocks to my Pickering mango soon, so I'll have a better answer within a year or so.

   Kevin

So I imagine your pickering is grafted and hardwood at this point, correct?  You mentioned that you felt that young, green pliable seedlings were the way to go for the extra rootstock.   How do you plan to graft a young green seedling mango to the older woody pickering? 

Im thinking about the same thing to my mallika and/or ice cream but I dont want to try it a relatively expensive 3 gallon or so woody grafted tree.  Rather use the inexpensive grocery store seed.

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CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2012, 06:15:46 PM »
Really cool pics and also kind of disturbing :D

I'm planning on adding a lot of rootstocks to my Pickering mango soon, so I'll have a better answer within a year or so.

   Kevin

So I imagine your pickering is grafted and hardwood at this point, correct?  You mentioned that you felt that young, green pliable seedlings were the way to go for the extra rootstock.   How do you plan to graft a young green seedling mango to the older woody pickering? 

Yes, my Pickering trunk is woody at this point.  My experience with jackfruit so far is that this just decreases the chance of the graft taking; if both stems are woody I get less than 50% take; it one stem is woody and the other green the percentage starts to go up.  So I'm planning on grafting a very young mango seedling to the woody Pickering trunk and hoping it takes; if it fails I'll try again until I get one to take or until I start to become concerned about damaging the trunk too much. 

Once one seedling approach graft takes, you can graft additional seedlings onto the first (still green) additional rootstock without damaging the main trunk again.  You could just keep working your way out from the main trunk, adding a new rootstock onto the most-recently-added one to keep working with younger stems and not have to bother the woody trunk again.

   Kevin

Tropicdude

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2012, 09:46:49 PM »
Thanks Kevin for info, I am going to try this weekend on a couple mango seedlings that have not been grafted yet.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 12:09:07 AM by Tropicdude »
William
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jwthought81

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2012, 10:35:10 PM »
Very informative Kevin.  Im sure we all appreciate it.

When you graft two young seedlings, how do you decide which becomes the main plants and which gets the axe?
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CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2012, 01:45:55 PM »
Very informative Kevin.  Im sure we all appreciate it.

When you graft two young seedlings, how do you decide which becomes the main plants and which gets the axe?

So far I've been making the decision on what top lives based on three factors- if the seedlings are of the same age, I pick whichever looks like it has the qualities I like best (compact but vigorous growth-- so far J-31 seedlings usually win out for this); if one of them is younger than the other I usually let the younger one be the new top because it allows me to keep my experiments short (height-wise) and because it will likely be easier to graft onto later.  For cases where it is a toss-up the seedling from the tastiest fruit wins, or if neither fruit was all that great I just flip a coin.  Since I'm planning on top-grafting Ziman Pink onto all of these experiments it probably won't make a big difference in the long run anyhow.

   Kevin

bangkok

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2012, 09:53:27 AM »
How is it going so far with the multiple rootstock tree's?

I got inspired by reading all the posts here and i have the plant to do an open heart operation on my multi-grafted Chocanon.

This chocanon is about 1.5 metre high now but grafted on another rootstock when i bought it. I want to make it a real chocanon rootstock so maybe my grafted scions will also fruit many times a year like chocanon can do.

I plan to put about 5 seeds in the pot next to the tree, graft them all on the trunk and finally cut away the rootstock that it has now.

Has anybody planted a multi-rootstock mango in the full soil and let it fruit ? What were the results of that? Bigger or more fruits? More harvests in a year?

CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2012, 11:43:23 AM »
So far my multi-rootstock trees are happy; they do seem to still be growing more compactly than single-rootstock trees.  None of mine are old enough to make any judgements about fruiting though.

The two-rootstock mango I had pictured above is now top-grafted to 'Pickering' and has 5 total rootstocks:



As you can see, it still has a while before it fruits!  The links Jay posted at the beginning of this thread include pictures of multi-rootstock mango trees in the ground in the Philippines.

   Kevin

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2012, 12:15:49 PM »
Hi Kevin,
Your Multi-rootstock grafted mango looks fabulous...once these 5 rootstocks kicks into gear, you will definitely have mangoes hang'n before it's 2nd anniversary ;)

Thanks for sharing :)
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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2012, 01:16:15 PM »
The Pickering scion has only been grafted for just under 3 months but it has been constantly flushing new growth for the past 2 months; I suspect it is happy being supported by 5 rootstocks.  It is certainly growing faster than the Pickering the scion came from, which only has 1 rootstock (possibly 2; I haven't unwrapped my latest attempt yet) under identical conditions.

   Kevin

Jackfruitwhisperer69

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2012, 02:52:09 PM »
Your 'Pickering' with extra rootstocks will definitely grow faster than the mother from which this scion came from. Now, i wonder if the term 'dwarf' mango, still imply for this tree, since it's grower much faster than the mother ???   
Time is like a river.
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Enjoy every moment of your life!

bangkok

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2012, 08:59:54 PM »
Advantages of Multiple Rootstock Technology
     1. Growth and development is accelerated or double in comparison with single rootstock. Just as a man could travel faster with two feet than one foot, a plant could grow faster with double root systems.
 
     2. The tree becomes more prolific since it overcomes the biennial (alternate) fruiting habit. Remember that plants like mango produces heavy fruiting only after every other year and if forced to bear fruits by applying KNO3, the tree will have a short life span as proven by what happen in Cebu, Zambales, Nueva Ecija and Pangasinan.
 
     3. The tree will have more root system that is essential to absorb the nutrients (fertilizer) applied, thus minimizing fertilizer losses due to evaporation and leaching.
 
     4. The tree will also have better root anchorage that enables the trees to resist strong winds and other adverse conditions.

     5. The gestation period (fruiting) of young trees is shortened by one half of the normal waiting time. Physiological maturity is also enhanced. A fiver-year-old triple rootstock is equivalent to 8-10 year-old fruit tree that bears commercial fruits.
 
     6. The tree will yield early, therefore producing off-season quality fruits which command higher price. The tree becomes non-seasonal due to its reinforced nature.

     7. Plants shall have lesser mortality in the field and have more uniform growth.

     8. Faster propagation or reproduction of the desired variety can be achieved.

     9. Production or yield can be enhanced by up to 300%.

     10. Plant's life span become longer which prolongs and enhances productivity.

     11. Imported varieties of seedlings like jackfruits and guapple will become resistant to Phytophthora when double rootstocked with the native variety. It has been observed that latexless jackfruit, guapple and other imported varieties grown from seeds died of phytophthora after 4-6 years.

http://www.dizonexoticfruittrees.com/ref/technology.htm

I will start saving mangoseeds from Mun sam rue do and Chocanon to do this to my tree.

kh0110

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2013, 06:26:22 PM »
Hello All, I'm curious as to how the experiments go on for different people here who had the courage to try this muti-rootstock grafting. Success, not yet, failure?
Thera

CoPlantNut

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 12:23:29 PM »
Here's my most successful multi-rootstock experiment to date, now with 21 total rootstocks at 9 months old:


Jackfruit certainly seem to heal faster than any other woody plant I've tried; the oldest (and physically closest) grafts on that tree are only 7 months old but have fused together so completely you would never know it was originally two separate stems.  It only seems to take 4 months or so for the ugly decapitation points to be completely grown over.

In contast, the multi-rootstock mangoes, carambolas, miracle fruit, mangosteens and achachairu seem to take a lot longer to really fuse properly and none of them look nice after 6 months, but the growth of the top is clearly affected by having multiple rootstocks.  For example, my mangosteen with a G. xanthochymus rootstock is flushing twice as often as the single-rootstock mangosteens, and the achachairu with auxiliary G. intermedia rootstock is growing faster, branching more and much more compact than single-rootstock achachairu-- though in both cases the auxiliary rootstocks don't appear to be well-fused to the main plant and I keep fearing they could fail.

   Kevin

fyliu

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Re: Multiple rootstock grafting
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 12:37:37 PM »
You are a very skilled grafter Kevin. A whole forest of rootstocks and roots supporting a single main trunk. ;D