Mulching for New Orchard - Good or Bad?

[FruitFreak]

We have begun installing tree trimmer mulch on our future orchard.  Everything is being spread between 1-1.5' thick.  Approximately 6500 cy of mulch is needed to cover the entire area and we currently have installed about 1600 cy.  There is a good variation as to the type and consistency of the green waste.  The existing soil is classified as Holopaw fine sand which to the eye appears void of any organic nutrients or topsoil.  There was little stratification when the excavator dug down 6'.  I figured mulch will enhance the soil with some organic material that will retain moisture, suppress weeds, add nutrients, and increase bio activity.  Mangoes will be the primary crop and production trees will be installed this summer.  I figured creating a thin layer of topsoil in the next few years will only help newly planted trees become established quicker.  I do not plan to continue mulching after the entire area has been covered.  Soil samples are going to spectrum analytics next week.

Does anyone have experience with this tactic on a larger scale?  What are the drawbacks?  Thanks.

[TREESNMORE]

You need more mulch. Mound the trees . Keep putting mulch down forever

[edzone9]

That is one prime real estate For your trees Bro !

Looking good so far !
Ed

[FruitFreak]

You need more mulch. Mound the trees . Keep putting mulch down forever

That's encouraging.  Can you please elaborate on "mound". 

I was planning on pulling he mulch away and planting the trees just a few inches above grade (Grade is >12" below the new mulch).  Will all of the material increase the existing grade's elevation or does it just transform the existing sand into topsoil and disappear?

[TREESNMORE]

The mulch will rot down adding to the soil.The first picture with the grass covering the mulch has had mulch a couple times . The second picture in sand you can see the mound rasing the tree about 1 foot I will mulch that till it gets level with the tree. Picture three we just keep adding more mulch

[mangomongo]

If you don't mind me asking? what varieties do you plan to plant and why?  How close together and how many per acre?

[Vernmented]

TREESNMORE (Mike) had great advice. I like to plant in large mounds and then mulch 18" - 24" deep. It will break down quick and then add another round not quite as thick. Mulch the whole thing. I am working at a client and friends house tomorrow. I will take some pictures. He just brought in some coarse sand and had it mounded and the other part of the property I have already made a mulch ocean. Unless you are planning on using heavy equipment, I would mulch everything HEAVY. Congrats. I dream of having a decent amount of land sooner then later. I use a 10 cubic foot wheelbarrow. I normally just dump then dump next to that pile and keep going.

[TREESNMORE]

FruitFreak
 I will answer two. My fields are 100 by300 the mangos are on 20foot centers.Right now 50 mango tree .Plus 1 row of sapadilla , black ,white and green sapote longan,garcina jack fruit lychee and a lot more. The mango is for my family to eat and help me sell trees . I have Angie ,Carrie , Cogshall ,Coconut Cream , Cotton Candy ,Fruit Punch, Glen , Harvest Moon , Ice Cream ,Juicy Peach ,Keitt , Kent Maha Schanok , Malika , orange Essence Peach Cobbler pickering Pimeapple Pleasure Sweet Tart Valencia Pride Venus

[mangomongo]

When you get ready to sell mangoes i'll come buy some.

[Cookie Monster]

Mulch will actually increase the soil level. I raised the level of my backyard by about 9 inches over the past decade of mulching. A foot of mulch will compress / degrade to about 2 or 3 inches of compost.

If you have enough soil moisture, the earthworms will mix the composted mulch into the soil over time. I suggest installing irrigation.

Mulch is a dual edged sword. It's great for weed control. You can expect a couple of years worth of weed suppression from a good load. It also increases soil microbials, which translates to healthier trees. And it serves to better hold in moisture and nutrients.

However, you will need to tailor your fertilization strategy to the organic matter. Organic matter locks up some micronutrients and makes them less available. And the P-K-Ca balance will be out of whack, since mulch is high in P but low in Ca. Over time (several years), your trees will begin to favor the nice moist layer of compost and mulch and will prefer it over the sandy soil for feeder roots. So even though you're on calcareous soil, you may end up needing to supply gypsum to mitigate low brix and internal breakdown. This probably wouldn't be an issue for several years though.

[FruitFreak]

If you don't mind me asking? what varieties do you plan to plant and why?  How close together and how many per acre?

dozens of varieties with multiple selects for fruit production/sales.  23x17 spacing.

[bsbullie]

I Los invite people to visit Walter Zill's and Truly Tropical,  located on the Boynton Ridge which is comprised of sugar sand.

I am ni8t saying mulch is all bad but for the mangoes, keep in mind...mangoes do not necessarily like umtra rich soil.  Also keep in mind what Jeff said about the cons of too much organic material.  I have heard Gary Zill say on more than one occasion  that for South Florida,  a lot of mulch or even any mulch and bud up of heavy organic compos6irion is not always a good thing.   For California  growers, totally different story.

[Cookie Monster]

Mango trees do well in sand, but for top production, fertilization is necessary.

I think mangoes can do well in organic soil too, but it takes a different approach. You need to supplement calcium to offset the extra nitrogen and the P-K-Ca imbalance, and you need to provide some extra micros for a while. I'm still toying with my situation here to achieve optimal results given the amount of organic material in my soil (on the north lot).

Given the negatives, I still lean towards going with the mulch approach though, even for mangoes. Some other species adore compost -- such as lychee, jackfruit, sapodilla, etc. But the reality is that there are negatives to consider. Here is a good read, albeit mostly anecdotal: https://highbrixgardens.com/victory-gardens/putting-compost-in-its-place.html

I Los invite people to visit Walter Zill's and Truly Tropical,  located on the Boynton Ridge which is comprised of sugar sand.

I am ni8t saying mulch is all bad but for the mangoes, keep in mind...mangoes do not necessarily like umtra rich soil.  Also keep in mind what Jeff said about the cons of too much organic material.  I have heard Gary Zill say on more than one occasion  that for South Florida,  a lot of mulch or even any mulch and bud up of heavy organic compos6irion is not always a good thing.   For California  growers, totally different story.

[bsbullie]

Mango trees do well in sand, but for top production, fertilization is necessary.

I think mangoes can do well in organic soil too, but it takes a different approach. You need to supplement calcium to offset the extra nitrogen and the P-K-Ca imbalance, and you need to provide some extra micros for a while. I'm still toying with my situation here to achieve optimal results given the amount of organic material in my soil (on the north lot).

Given the negatives, I still lean towards going with the mulch approach though, even for mangoes. Some other species adore compost -- such as lychee, jackfruit, sapodilla, etc. But the reality is that there are negatives to consider. Here is a good read, albeit mostly anecdotal: https://highbrixgardens.com/victory-gardens/putting-compost-in-its-place.html

I Los invite people to visit Walter Zill's and Truly Tropical,  located on the Boynton Ridge which is comprised of sugar sand.

I am ni8t saying mulch is all bad but for the mangoes, keep in mind...mangoes do not necessarily like umtra rich soil.  Also keep in mind what Jeff said about the cons of too much organic material.  I have heard Gary Zill say on more than one occasion  that for South Florida,  a lot of mulch or even any mulch and bud up of heavy organic compos6irion is not always a good thing.   For California  growers, totally different story.

I totally agree with your first statement.

The other, can do amazing thing to your tees but it will take a lot more time and effort along with some education.  One who is cluess and ignorant and impatient will not have success ir the have no hands on understanding, the do and donts, and the whys...

[FruitFreak]

Mulch will actually increase the soil level. I raised the level of my backyard by about 9 inches over the past decade of mulching. A foot of mulch will compress / degrade to about 2 or 3 inches of compost.

This is what I wanted to know.  Just trying to figure out how high to mound the trees above existing grade.  With new mulch approximately 12" thick it sounds like 6" mounds which isn't really a big deal.  My thought is to cover the orchard with about 12" and let things break down for awhile before adding any more.  Other areas designated for different tropicals (lychee, avocado, canistel, sapo, pitaya, jak) could be a little thicker...

[FruitFreak]

The mulch will rot down adding to the soil.The first picture with the grass covering the mulch has had mulch a couple times . The second picture in sand you can see the mound rasing the tree about 1 foot I will mulch that till it gets level with the tree. Picture three we just keep adding more mulch

Nice renovation!  12" mounds look nice.  Did you just scrape the mounds together or did you add dirt for each mound?  Did you use a skidsteer or dozer for grade leveling?  Thanks for sharing the pics.

[FruitFreak]

I am ni8t saying mulch is all bad but for the mangoes, keep in mind...mangoes do not necessarily like umtra rich soil.  Also keep in mind what Jeff said about the cons of too much organic material.  I have heard Gary Zill say on more than one occasion  that for South Florida,  a lot of mulch or even any mulch and bud up of heavy organic compos6irion is not always a good thing.   For California  growers, totally different story.

Hi Rob.  Thanks for sharing.  I have noticed that mango trees on adjacent properties seem to be very healthy without any mulch.  Does Gary use anything around his tree bases or does he just let grass/weeds grow up to the tree bases until the mango roots outcompete?

[TREESNMORE]

I have been to Erickson Farm on the muck shore of Lake Okeechobee his trees look great.

[WGphil]

Plant first, digging through mulch is a pain.

[zands]

Hi Rob.  Thanks for sharing.  I have noticed that mango trees on adjacent properties seem to be very healthy without any mulch.  Does Gary use anything around his tree bases or does he just let grass/weeds grow up to the tree bases until the mango roots outcompete?

My take is use lots of wood chips mulch where the trees are planted and leave the rest alone. The only way you could blacken up that entire lot you have would be with 12" wood chips spread all around.

I know two guys who have large fruit orchards in mid state Florida. One is in/near Frostproof Florida the other near Sebring. They have mangoes, mamey, lychee, pomegranate...lots of others on an experimental basis. They might get frozen out on some and lose them.

Anyways..... neither uses mulch and one guy knows his organics and wood chips. Both use soluble fertilizers with micros that are piped into each tree via micro- emitters.   During their regular irrigation. So the fruit trees  get no nutrition from mulch, natural manures or 8-3-9 type of bagged fertilizers. And the trees do well   

****one of them planted a few acres of mamey after a Miami mamey grower bragged to him how he was becoming a millionaire growing it

[Cookie Monster]

That's the key. It takes more effort to do the compost approach. I'm still learning and experimenting. Definitely not as easy as chucking some 8-3-9 in the ground.

I totally agree with your first statement.

The other, can do amazing thing to your tees but it will take a lot more time and effort along with some education.  One who is cluess and ignorant and impatient will not have success ir the have no hands on understanding, the do and donts, and the whys...

[JF]

Great topic....bookmark

[FruitFreak]

The soil test has been received for those interested.  Very impressed with Spectrum Analytics.

[Cookie Monster]

What the heck. That's the lowest CEC I've ever seen. You desperately need some organic matter in that soil. It's extremely devoid of nutrition and nutrient / water holding capacity. The only reason some of the nutrients are "good" is because the CEC is so low that the relative percentages are OK. But in terms of absolute amounts, it's pretty low. Load that stuff up with as much mulch as you can find !!

You're probably going to also want to drop a load of gypsum. Mangoes need loads of calcium, especially on acid soil.

pH is nice, but given the super low CEC, you can alter the pH with minute amounts of lime / sulfur.

Once the trees start bearing, you're going to want to invest in slow release K.

The soil test has been received for those interested.  Very impressed with Spectrum Analytics.

[BajaJohn]

Mulch shouldn't be confused with compost although some mulches express some benefits of compost. Tree trimmer mulch breaks down slowly and will be slow to add nutrients or organics to the soil, so other amendment sources will be a benefit. The nitrogen content is generally insoluble organics which take a very long time to become available to plants. It also tends to raise pH which may be an advantage for you (http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/html_pubs/mulch/MULCH.html).
I compost chipped tree trimmings with manure, leaves and kitchen and garden waste. It requires a little labor to turn the heap a couple of times and takes about 3 months in my relatively warm climate. This may be a faster way to add organics.
Another alternative may be plants that can be used as live mulch (https://www.jstor.org/stable/4046641?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). Some can be permanent, others can be cultivated into the soil at intervals.
You should be able to get help/advice from the University of Florida Horticultural Extension which provides outreach to growers in the state (http://solutionsforyourlife.ifas.ufl.edu/agriculture/crops/fruits_and_nuts.shtml). Here is one article from them on mangoes (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg216). You can search their website for articles on mangoes. You should also be able to contact staff directly.
Good luck with your enterprise.