The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: JF on October 10, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
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MangoDog, Ethan, Cuban007 and I spend the afternoon with legendary California mango grower Eunice Messner. Here are some pics of her amazing orchard:
who said the Edward was a shy bearer?
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3413.jpg)
here carnival mango
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3409.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3412.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3424.jpg)
MangoDog looking south towards the beautiful SaddlebackValley.
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3415.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3426.jpg)
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but those mangoes aren't on the trees now are they?? in CA??
thanks for posting amazing pictures!!!!!
mouth watering...jaw dropping.
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Yes they are....those pics are from today. These California mangoes are amazing. Adam those are Edwards, Carnival, and Thompson mangoes. And people say Edwards are shy bearers.....Not in Cali.
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thanks for clarification!
being in FL...i keep thinking mangoes are all done (pretty much).
I'm happy to think that I might be able to buy some fruits in November, from CA!!!
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You welcome Adam. Here are the incredible Thompson mangos.....I think Richard Campbell miss this one LOL
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3437.jpg)
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An incredible day meeting you fellows and spending time with such an amazing lady, thank you JF. The Carnival and Edward mangoes were just starting to ripen but the Paul Thompsons were ready and very good. Smooth texture, very nice taste and incredible aroma, I have a few more to eat in the next few days.....might even share with the family? :-X I have to say the Carnival mangoes were absolutely beautiful to look at, unfortunately they were just starting to change color so no tasting......yet.
Paul Thompson mangoes
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/red_sea_me/phototime354.jpg)
Carnival mangoes still green unripe
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/red_sea_me/phototime352.jpg)
Edward on the left, multi grafted PT with Carnival making up the rest of the mass. Notice the steps to the right? One of multiple flights that she traverses for her orchard.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/red_sea_me/phototime364.jpg)
The cherry on the cake, watching her select scions and graft up a mango.
la comida que bueno tamibien!
next time maybe cigars and dominos 8)
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Wow! Beautiful orchard and pictures. Looks like you all had an incredible day. It looks like her mangos are planted pretty close together. What was the spacing like? Dave
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Ethan,
Excellent pictures, sounds like you guys had lots of fun. Looks like a great orchard, those CA mangoes look very tasty.
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That is a beautiful fruit forest! Thanks for sharing :)
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Male fruiting papaya look awesome, wonder how they taste?
Seems most of the sun exposed mangoes get burnt in dry CA heat huh? Do you have this issue out in Palm Spring, mangodog?
What a beautiful place to visit, thanks for sharing the photos, gents.
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Looks like a really nice orchard and a fun day. I wished we had mangos here this late.
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Thanks guys, Dave, the spacing of the trees varied, some quite close others more normal. Here is a pic of an area where someone went through and "cleaned up" the trees, you can get an idea about spacing.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/red_sea_me/phototime350.jpg)
"cleaned up" Carnival
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/red_sea_me/phototime363.jpg)
Tim, yes, some of the exposed mangoes had sunburn, from the heat wave we had a few weeks ago. I'd happily cut around any damage though.
Shared a PT mango this morning w/my son, yummy!
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Hi Jf, MangoDog, Cubano and Ethan,
Thanks a bunch for sharing fellow members :)...Truly enjoyed them pics :)
Ms. Eunice Messner has such a gorgeous and rich orchard...them mangos look truly amazing 8)
First time hearing about Carnival and Thompsons mango...they truly look top notch 8)
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Thanks Ethan. Great pics. I like the way those are pruned. Dave
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What a great garden! I used to live in Anaheim Hills, parents are still there, I'll let them know of what's possible in their backyard. I'm surprised that the papaya can grow and bear fruits there, it can be pretty cold in the winter.
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Looks like the mango trees are located in a great micro climate. I can see in the picture that there is a lower elevation area below the mangoes. I am assuming that the cold air sinks down to the lower areas, keeping the higher areas warmer by a good amount.
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Nullzero, that is exactly what is happening at Eunice's place. Ethan thanx for posting the pics. Here are some of the ones that I took:
Carnival Mangoes
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_132156.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_132117.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130536.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130506.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130512.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_132112.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_132107.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_132103.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130604.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130557.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130450.jpg)
Philippine Lakatan
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131843.jpg)
Hermaphrodite Papaya. Never seen one like this before
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131808.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131801.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131754.jpg)
Thompson Mangoes...very good tasting mango
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131619.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130848.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130840.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130828.jpg)
Dwarf Cavendish
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131611.jpg)
Carnival and Thompson in one tree
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131338.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130936.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131022.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130950.jpg)
Edwards
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131010.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_131005.jpg)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o119/danielcuba/20121010_130857.jpg)
Added three more mangoes to my basket...two Thompson and one Edwards.
JF, Mangodog, and Ethan we have to do it again soon. Hope the forum enjoys the pics.
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As you get closer to the trees there are Mangos everywhere! Eunice was telling us that the critters have decimated her crop.....they have no predators since the golf course adjacent to her property exterminated the coyote population. BTW, Eunice is the creator of the elixir cherimoya and coconilla and carnival mangos, all register.
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3408.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3431.jpg)
there are many carnival trees here is mangodog posing with the ricolour carnivals
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_3417.jpg)
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Nice pics! :)
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I lamented a while back the absence of experience mango growers from Socal in this forum.....I mention Eunice, Jim Neitzel and Leo Manual, among others. these pics are dedicated to all the new Socal mango growers in this forum. It would be nice if our CRFG friends from San Diego, Simon or Tim, our Global Moderator, could hook us up with some pictures of their orchard.
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Mangoperro really looks happy next to the mango trees ;)
Muchas gracias por compartir las fantasticas fotos :)
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JF - I would love nothing more than spend a day touring both orchards (Leo & Jim), though finding time while the sun's still out is key for me. Nonetheless, we'll see what I can do.
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I thoroughly enjoy the pictures. How are the trees irrigated? About how old are the mango trees? I did not realize that mango trees can do this well in dry Southern California. And the colors of the carnical mangos on the tree are absolutely pleasing to the eyes.
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Thank you Pasca,
I dont know the age of the trees for sure but for some reason 30years old comes to mind??? The trees are drip irrigated with 1GPH emitters 1 every 4 days I believe.
Ate another PT mango today, mmmmmmm.
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Great thread guys. Very nicely documented pictorily. I thought I had been mangoed out from our summer season, but looking at your pictures, I am beginning to long for the coming season. Thanks for taking the time to post. It is very interesting to see the very different growing conditions/methods.
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Looks like the mango trees are located in a great micro climate. I can see in the picture that there is a lower elevation area below the mangoes. I am assuming that the cold air sinks down to the lower areas, keeping the higher areas warmer by a good amount.
This woman (I presume husband too) created the more humid micro-climates to make a South California hillside more jungle like so more hospitable to mangoes and other tropical fruits. Hills are well ventilated so the task was even more difficult
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Zands,
Very interesting, I figured there was a good deal of earthworks and planning involved on making the mangoes so happy. I would love to check out the trees sometime in the future, it looks amazing.
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Zands,
Very interesting, I figured there was a good deal of earthworks and planning involved on making the mangoes so happy. I would love to check out the trees sometime in the future, it looks amazing.
The Israelis have turned large areas from dry and arid nothings into forests via drip irrigation and precise scientific tree plantings. It takes a while but eventually the trees make the air more humid and the land supports more life on the ground, in the trees. More animals and insects. You create a virtuous circle with more water in it. More water = more life.
The same can be done all over the world's dry and forsaken regions
I notice that Mrs Messier is using drip irrigation.
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Very nice pics Ethan and Cuban007! I want to thank all three of you for a very enjoyable afternoon. I received a call from Eunice today thanking us for the Cuban sandwich. I discuss with her the possibility of propagating her carnival mango with La Verne Nursery. She said some years ago a representative from La Verne visit her orchard and express some interest but ended up taking budwood from her elixir cherimoya and NDM mango which they soon after propagated. I will be visiting her again in a few week to evaluate her carnival mango in the meantime I would like to hear a review from each of you fellas. I tried to dip up some of her articles from the Fruit Gardener Magazine were she was a contributing editor for many years but for some reason all the archive were erased. Here is an article she email me from 2003 for our local.
Requested short talk on a favorite fruit for the October 2003 Orange County chapter.meeting.
Eunice Messner
MANGOS REFLECT MORE FEMININE TRAITS THAN THOSE OF A MALE
YOU COULD SAY MANGOS ARE ‘JUST LIKE A WOMAN’.
SHE HAS TO BE--- ‘IN THE MOOD’
AND SHE ISN’T IN THE MOOD UNLESS THE TEMPERATURES RANGE IS 77–86deg.
DURING FLOWERING AND FRUIT DEVELOPMENT TIME.
AFTER THAT, MANGOS LIKE IT MODERATELY HOT FOR FRUIT DEVELOPMENT.
HOW CAN WE KEEP THE ROMANCE GOING UNDER OUR CONDITIONS?
JANUARY TEASINGLY PROMISES A GREAT TIME–LOTS OF WARM DAYS AND FLOWERS START TO DEVELOP, BUT THEN–ALONG COMES THE COLD AND OUR WINTER RAINS AND THE FEMALES IN THE INFLORESCENCE SAY “No, Way”.
BLOSSOMS CONTAIN SOME FEMALE, SOME MALE AND SOME PERFECT FLOWERS
THE BEST POLLINATION IS ASSISTED BY FLIES, WASPS, BEETLES, BUTTERFLIES
AND ANTS.
BEES DON’T FIND THE FLOWER THAT ATTRACTIVE— BUT THEN INSECTS DON’T LIKE THIS WEATHER EITHER. IT DOES HELP TO HAVE OTHER MANGO TREES NEARBY.
BUT, IT’S NOT HOPELESS, IT’S JUST A CASE OF FINDING A TREE (OR A PARTNER) THAT WILL PUT UP WITH YOUR CONDITIONS.
MOST MATURE MANGO TREES ARE ALTERNATE BEARERS, BUT I HAVE ONE MANGO THAT ALWAYS FRUITS—THOMSON.
I DON’T KNOW IF IT HAS MORE FEMALE FLOWERS
MORE PERFECT FLOWERS THAN OTHERS–
OR, IF IT JUST TOLERATES LOWER TEMPERATURES.
MANGOS ARE JUST TEMPERMENTAL. Period.
NAM DOC MAI IS IN THE MOOD ALL THE TIME, BUT SOME CONDITION IS MISSING TO MAKE IT HOLD IT FRUIT. (At least for me.)
MANGOS OFTEN FLOWER A SECOND TIME IF THERE IS NO FRUIT SET IN THE FIRST BLOSSOM PERIOD.
Dr. FALKENSTEIN IN ARIZONA WAITS UNTIL ABOUT 10% OF THE FIRST BLOSSOMS HAVE SET AND THEN HE CUTS THEM OFF AND LETS THEM BLOOM AGAIN. BY THEN THE WEATHER IS STARTING TO GET A BIT WARMER.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH 2 to 3 YR. OLD GRAFTED MANGO TREES WHO WANT THEIR TREE WELL ESTABLISHED BEFORE IT FRUITS; DON’T CUT OFF THE BLOSSOMS UNTIL A FEW VERY TINY FRUIT HAVE SET OR, THE TREE WILL BLOOM AGAIN AND AGAIN AND BLOOM ITSELF TO DEATH.
ANOTHER PROBLEM, OUR COLD WET WINTERS PROMOTE MILDEW WHICH IS DETRIMENTAL TO BLOSSOM SET
BEFORE MILDEW APPEARS FOLIAR SPRAY WITH WETTABLE SULFUR , COPPER, OR EVEN MILK.
IF MILDEW OCCURS, A BLAST OF WATER MAY HELP TO CONTROL IT.
LAST OF ALL, IF YOU WANT MANGOS, KEEP YOUR FINGERS—not your legs--- KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED
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JF,
The lady does not just have green thumbs for mangoes, she also has wits and flare as a writer. I thoroughly enjoy reading your post. I have learned a lot from reading her article. Thanks for sharing.
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JF,
You mention returning to sample the Carnival mangoes in a couple of weeks. Is there any chance of joining the group for that visit? I only ask because I'm not far away, and am trying to grow some socal mangoes of my own. Thanks for the great posts of Mrs. Messner's orchard!
James
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well - guess I'm the last of the group to chime in. Thanks again, JF, for organizing this little
Tour deJour!!! Nice to see 007 again and meet Ethan. As the group has stated, Eunice was
very generous with her time and mangos, and even baked us some cookies that we ate in
her living room after the Thomson mango appetizers.....
I took a couple scions of the marvelous looking Carnival Mango, and grafted them today. It really is
even more beautiful to look at in person. And No, Tim, my mangos don't get sunburned out here as
I'm guessing the skin has lots of time to toughen up through the long hot blazing summers we have
out here in Palm Springs. I know it's past season, but I'm going to see if I can get anything to take
in the next few weeks while we still have warm weather...I'll let you guys know....
Eunice's location was ideal. She told us that since those concrete walkways and sort of flat concrete sections
were put in, she's had no frost damage, and as a few people mentioned and observed, her hillside
orchard must drain the cold air nicely down to the back of her property.
All in all, a great time......thanks again you three......
MangoFang
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pardon me if this has already been talked about on this thread...but what are the minimum temps that these mangoes have endured?
the reason I ask is because they are so short, and one tree looks like cold girdled it's trunk, splitting the bark...but it recovered.
sorry if I'm mistaken...and thanks in advance for the info and wonderful post.
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Adam I highly doubt that they experience any frost in Anaheim Hills. The split or seperation on the trunk is something that I have seen in other mature mango trees. It looked very normal to me.
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Great Great Great! Love the whole thing, pictures and all! Awesome to know someone has grown such beautiful mango tree specimens in California. I hope to succeed here in NorCal.. That papaya is beyond impressive! I think I should move to SoCal one day.. lol. ;D
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Wow! Amazing pictures!
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thanks for info cuban007!
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pardon me if this has already been talked about on this thread...but what are the minimum temps that these mangoes have endured?
the reason I ask is because they are so short, and one tree looks like cold girdled it's trunk, splitting the bark...but it recovered.
sorry if I'm mistaken...and thanks in advance for the info and wonderful post.
winter months are very mild...... day time temps 70F night time temps 50....you have a handful of nights where the temps drop below 40F but only for a couple of hours. They do have widespread gusts during the year but it has been pretty good this year.
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I'm going to remember how these mangoes were pruned!
looks like how they should be pruned!
easy pickins
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I'm going to remember how these mangoes were pruned!
looks like how they should be pruned!
easy pickins
Eunice top work all of those trees......they are sitting on 30 year old rootstock..... richard campbell keeps them that size at the fairchild farm
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Beautiful Calif mango orchard. You guys did a great job in showing the place off.
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I lamented a while back the absence of experience mango growers from Socal in this forum.....I mention Eunice, Jim Neitzel and Leo Manual, among others. these pics are dedicated to all the new Socal mango growers in this forum. It would be nice if our CRFG friends from San Diego, Simon or Tim, our Global Moderator, could hook us up with some pictures of their orchard.
OK, I know I keep saying it but I will really really try to post pics very soon. I did a test post about a month ago and found out that it is much easier to post pics on this forum than on GW so I have no excuse not to post pics. Just a warning that my yard is extremely small and I know that I planted my plants way too close together but I have no options as I have no room. When my garden fills in, I will have no sunlight.
Does anyone happen to know which variety of mango is Eunice's favorite? I can't believe how many mangoes she has on her Edward! I wonder if her Edwards taste similar to the ones produced in Florida? It really threw me for a loop when Leo Manuel told me that he did not like the taste of Edward. Does Eunice have any Lychees? Those pictures are very motivating and I will now try to squeeze in a few more mangoes, perhaps on my roof!
Simon
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Mango's paradise! Wunderful pictures, great job. ;)
Thanks for sharing.
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I lamented a while back the absence of experience mango growers from Socal in this forum.....I mention Eunice, Jim Neitzel and Leo Manual, among others. these pics are dedicated to all the new Socal mango growers in this forum. It would be nice if our CRFG friends from San Diego, Simon or Tim, our Global Moderator, could hook us up with some pictures of their orchard.
OK, I know I keep saying it but I will really really try to post pics very soon. I did a test post about a month ago and found out that it is much easier to post pics on this forum than on GW so I have no excuse not to post pics. Just a warning that my yard is extremely small and I know that I planted my plants way too close together but I have no options as I have no room. When my garden fills in, I will have no sunlight.
Does anyone happen to know which variety of mango is Eunice's favorite? I can't believe how many mangoes she has on her Edward! I wonder if her Edwards taste similar to the ones produced in Florida? It really threw me for a loop when Leo Manuel told me that he did not like the taste of Edward. Does Eunice have any Lychees? Those pictures are very motivating and I will now try to squeeze in a few more mangoes, perhaps on my roof!
Simon
Simon
I was talking about Jim and Leo's mango orchard but if you want to post pics of your Lychees and other stuff that would be great.
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What an amazing orchard Eunice has! The mango trees are gorgeous and so healthy. So are the other tropical fruit trees. Gives us great hope that we can also grow mango trees successfully here.
By the way, JF, are these tours open for fellow forum members or only for CRFG members?
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Hey JF, so I contacted Leo Manuel and he granted me a tour of his orchard and even said he would like Jim Neitzel to be over to answer questions!!! I haven't seen his yard in over 5 years. I will start a new thread asking forum members for suggestions on questions to ask Jim and Leo.
Simon
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Simon - when is your tour?
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Hey Tim, Leo hasn't gotten back to me on the exact day yet but I'm hoping he can do it sometime next week. Tim, you got a PM.
Simon
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Hey JF, so I contacted Leo Manuel and he granted me a tour of his orchard and even said he would like Jim Neitzel to be over to answer questions!!! I haven't seen his yard in over 5 years. I will start a new thread asking forum members for suggestions on questions to ask Jim and Leo.
Simon
very good simon! take lots of pics I've been invited to tour Leo's orchard a few times but it's a bit too far for me. btw, Eunice used to have regular tours for all CRFG members.
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the orchard is looking great, it looks like July and October mangos.....her first bloom has set a lot of fruits and she has a second bloom going
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1124.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1129.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1127.jpg)[/img]
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1125.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1131.jpg)
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1132.jpg)
can someone ID this papaya? she said it's a Thai variety red inside?
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_1123.jpg)
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Those mango trees and the amount of fruit is absolutely incredible, it's hard to believe they're in anaheim and not hawaii. Does she have a favorite mango?
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Those mango trees and the amount of fruit is absolutely incredible, it's hard to believe they're in anaheim and not hawaii. Does she have a favorite mango?
Anaheim Hills may be better for mangos than Hawaii? She likes Thomson's they are the originals from Paul Thomson.
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wow nice fruits productions and most importantly healthy trees. thanks for sharing JF