The Tropical Fruit Forum

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: FloridaGreenMan on February 15, 2012, 10:16:23 PM

Title: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 15, 2012, 10:16:23 PM
I picked up some Red Custard apples  (Annona reticulata} today (Feb15th) from a friend who is growing them in Parkland FL.  These beauties weighed from 1.5 to almost 2 lbs each. He has been harvesting them for the past 3 weeks. They have a little grit but are very sweet and have a flavor similar to birthday cake, which is what I call them. The trees were grafted and not identified but I think the cultivar may be Sarteneja. The trees are very prolific and there are at least 40 large fruits on each tree. I'll take photos of the them later on. How many of you are growing Custard apples and which cultivars? 
FGM                     

(http://s18.postimage.org/p6b21e6g5/Red_Custard_Feb2012_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p6b21e6g5/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6qmg9mjub/)

Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: murahilin on February 15, 2012, 10:21:38 PM
Nice pics Noel. I was told by Har that the fruit is from Sarteneja, Belize. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarteneja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarteneja)

Here is a pic of a sarteneja fruit from Excalibur:

(http://s14.postimage.org/s0ic97h19/230148_738798175705_33404250_37725866_5590592_n.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s0ic97h19/)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Squam256 on February 15, 2012, 10:31:40 PM
I'm growing a 'Red' custard apple.....not sure on the actual cultivar. It came from Zill. Lost its leaves in the cold but I think its still alive.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: MarinFla on February 15, 2012, 10:36:03 PM
Noel --Do they grow close to seed? I am going to get rid of all the cherimoya trees I have and try growing something will actually grow here in in Broward. If you have a few seeds from them that you would sell I would love to try germinating/ growing a seedling :) Be in touch. I want to get the other info we talked about.
Thanks
Marin
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Tim on February 15, 2012, 11:24:20 PM
Noel --Do they grow close to seed? I am going to get rid of all the cherimoya trees I have and try growing something will actually grow here in in Broward. If you have a few seeds from them that you would sell I would love to try germinating/ growing a seedling :) Be in touch. I want to get the other info we talked about.
Thanks
Marin

Since you already have them going, why don't you use them as root stocks instead?  Maybe Noel can sport you some scions?


Noel, how are these red custard apples compare to cherimoyas and atemoyas in taste?  They're beautiful in color, I wish they aren't as tender so we can try growing them in Socal.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Felipe on February 16, 2012, 12:28:07 PM
Noel, I envy you so much... ;)

I'm currently growing one seedling of unknown origin. No fruit so far. I sure want to get San Pablo and Sarteneja...

Does anybody know if reticulata can be grafted on chirimoya?!
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 16, 2012, 01:43:37 PM
x
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 16, 2012, 07:23:15 PM
Noel --Do they grow close to seed? I am going to get rid of all the cherimoya trees I have and try growing something will actually grow here in in Broward. If you have a few seeds from them that you would sell I would love to try germinating/ growing a seedling :) Be in touch. I want to get the other info we talked about.
Thanks
Marin
They do grow pretty fairly true to seed and do extremely well in our climate. Grafted trees are not real common but are found at local sales.     
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 16, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
Noel --Do they grow close to seed? I am going to get rid of all the cherimoya trees I have and try growing something will actually grow here in in Broward. If you have a few seeds from them that you would sell I would love to try germinating/ growing a seedling :) Be in touch. I want to get the other info we talked about.
Thanks
Marin

Since you already have them going, why don't you use them as root stocks instead?  Maybe Noel can sport you some scions?


Noel, how are these red custard apples compare to cherimoyas and atemoyas in taste?  They're beautiful in color, I wish they aren't as tender so we can try growing them in Socal.

They are not as delicious as a good Atemoya or Cherimoya but some cultivars like Tikal and Sarteneja are very nice and have a raspberry taste. They are variable in taste from year to year also. They are probably the cold hardiest annona that is grown here. 
       




Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Berto on February 16, 2012, 08:07:00 PM
Adam,
Vinho is the word in portuguese that means "wine".  Wine in Mexico/spanish is "vino".  I will bet you that the variety "vinho" comes from Brasil.  Recently,  I visited Lara Farms in Miami, and Mr. Lara told me that "San Pablo" also came from Brasil.  It came from the state of Sao Paulo in Brasil.  San Pablo is the spanish word for Sao Paulo in portuguese.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 16, 2012, 08:40:42 PM
Noel --Do they grow close to seed? I am going to get rid of all the cherimoya trees I have and try growing something will actually grow here in in Broward. If you have a few seeds from them that you would sell I would love to try germinating/ growing a seedling :) Be in touch. I want to get the other info we talked about.
Thanks
Marin

Since you already have them going, why don't you use them as root stocks instead?  Maybe Noel can sport you some scions?


Noel, how are these red custard apples compare to cherimoyas and atemoyas in taste?  They're beautiful in color, I wish they aren't as tender so we can try growing them in Socal.

Tim, if we can grow sugar apples here we can surely grow Annona reticulata. In fact, I just goggled it and read a post from cloudforest where a grower in San Clemente has a huge Annona reticulata. I'm getting A rectangular from Roger lol I have a Yucatan seedling that's growing slow and has withstood our winter without dropping a leaf.
JF
JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Ethan on February 17, 2012, 01:33:34 AM
They are already being grown in CA.  ;D

-Ethan
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 17, 2012, 01:44:03 AM
x
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Tim on February 17, 2012, 02:45:16 AM
They are already being grown in CA.  ;D

-Ethan
oh yes, I forgot I called you "annona guy of the west" ;D

Joe - do you even have any room left to walk let alone a tree?  ;D
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 17, 2012, 07:21:54 PM
I grew a "Tikal"  A. reticulata amd it easily survived a few 30 degree nights in the early 80s that killed sugar apples and Rollinia. When it gets under 40 degrees, Rollinias drop lots of leaves. Rollinia is far from the cold hardiest. Now I am talking about trees grown outside without any protection, not protected container plants.
I have been growing Annonas for over 20 years and keep records.           
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 17, 2012, 07:23:14 PM
They are already being grown in CA.  ;D

-Ethan

I'm sorry Ethan what I meant to say was  a fruiting reticulata. BTW, how is your Red Geneva, has it fruited?

JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 17, 2012, 07:30:26 PM
I grew a "Tikal"  A. reticulata amd it easily survived a few 30 degree nights in the early 80s that killed sugar apples and Rollinia. When it gets under 40 degrees, Rollinias drop lots of leaves. Rollinia is far from the cold hardiest. Now I am talking about trees grown outside without any protection, not protected container plants.
I have been growing Annonas for over 20 years and keep records.         

Are you suggesting that A. reticulata is hardier than a sugar apple? How are the A. reticulata propagated in South Florida?


JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 17, 2012, 10:24:09 PM
To tell you the truth, cold hardiness is far from an exact science.  Micro climatic conditions come into play.  The type of rootstock used can also make a difference.  One thing is certain, the healthier you maintain your trees during the entire year, the better they will survive a cold snap.  You have to take many factors into account when you judge how cold tolerant a tree really is. I grow my most delicate trees in a protected area on the south side of my property. One example of cold hardiness that I found during the cold snap we had in SFLA in 2009 was that my grafted J-31 Jakfruit did much worse than my seedling Jak. My J-31 lost 60% of it's leaves and had branch damage. It's on the protected side of my house, whereas my seedling Dang Suria Jak is in an open section of my yard and suffered zero damage. Before you judge how cold hardy something is, you need to examine all the evidence and over several years.         
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 17, 2012, 10:25:50 PM
I grew a "Tikal"  A. reticulata amd it easily survived a few 30 degree nights in the early 80s that killed sugar apples and Rollinia. When it gets under 40 degrees, Rollinias drop lots of leaves. Rollinia is far from the cold hardiest. Now I am talking about trees grown outside without any protection, not protected container plants.
I have been growing Annonas for over 20 years and keep records.         

Have seen both Rollinia and custard apple attempted outside with no protection in ground.  Still think Rollinia is more tolerant in my experience...and what reinforces my belief even more, was my visit to fruit and spice park back around 4 yrs ago when freezes where bad...reticulata had no fruits and got hammered...rollinia held fruits and even some leaves!!!

Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: zands on February 18, 2012, 01:35:07 AM
I picked up some Red Custard apples  (Annona reticulata} today (Feb15th) from a friend who is growing them in Parkland FL.
(http://s18.postimage.org/p6b21e6g5/Red_Custard_Feb2012_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p6b21e6g5/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6qmg9mjub/)

Are these trees as cold tolerant as mango trees?? Beautiful fruit and has me interested. I emailed Lara Miami and he said one gallon specimens will ready this summer of  the  Fernandez Custard Apple (Chirimoya)
Lara photo--->>
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/405553_315162141847437_133447883352198_1031633_1555353391_n.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Ethan on February 18, 2012, 02:57:55 AM
I'm sorry Ethan what I meant to say was  a fruiting reticulata. BTW, how is your Red Geneva, has it fruited?

JF

My A. reticulata and a few atemoyas bloomed like crazy last year but I did not pollinate anything.  The CA "Red Genoa" is growing like crazy, if only it was a true illama.

I've seen two types of rollinia, one that looks like a yellow cherimoya and one that looks like Noel's Amazon (soursop looking).  Maybe this explains the different experiences w/the cold tolerance of rollinias?

Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 18, 2012, 09:46:39 AM
I picked up some Red Custard apples  (Annona reticulata} today (Feb15th) from a friend who is growing them in Parkland FL.
(http://s18.postimage.org/p6b21e6g5/Red_Custard_Feb2012_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p6b21e6g5/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6qmg9mjub/)



Are these trees as cold tolerant as mango trees?? Beautiful fruit and has me interested. I emailed Lara Miami and he said one gallon specimens will ready this summer of  the  Fernandez Custard Apple (Chirimoya)
Lara photo--->>
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/405553_315162141847437_133447883352198_1031633_1555353391_n.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater)


Mangos are probably more cold hardy than reticulata or squamosa here in SFLA. Maybe Superman Adam in Orlando will tell you differently but that is my opinion. The advantage that annonas do have is that most go into dormancy and that helps them to survive better.   I still rank Rollinia lower in cold tolerance than either of the two aforementioned fruits on my property, especially younger trees. Once they become established trees that story may change!   



 
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: zands on February 18, 2012, 12:20:41 PM
FloridaGreenMan---

Tanks much!
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 18, 2012, 04:09:57 PM
To tell you the truth, cold hardiness is far from an exact science.  Micro climatic conditions come into play.  The type of rootstock used can also make a difference.  One thing is certain, the healthier you maintain your trees during the entire year, the better they will survive a cold snap.  You have to take many factors into account when you judge how cold tolerant a tree really is. I grow my most delicate trees in a protected area on the south side of my property. One example of cold hardiness that I found during the cold snap we had in SFLA in 2009 was that my grafted J-31 Jakfruit did much worse than my seedling Jak. My J-31 lost 60% of it's leaves and had branch damage. It's on the protected side of my house, whereas my seedling Dang Suria Jak is in an open section of my yard and suffered zero damage. Before you judge how cold hardy something is, you need to examine all the evidence and over several years.       

Thanks Noel
I'll will put it on the protected side of my house, it's in a 7 gallon now. I've talked to Roger Meyer and Ben Poirier about their experience with Custard Apple both of them said they are too cold sensitive for our climate. Roger showed me his Rollinia that's been on the ground for 3 years and has taken our cold winters with no problem. He said that the Rollinia grows more vigorously than any annona he has ever grown..

JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 18, 2012, 05:36:37 PM
Good to hear they do well there.  There may be some types that do better in cooler climates. That's what makes this hobby interesting!
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 19, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
I picked up some Red Custard apples  (Annona reticulata} today (Feb15th) from a friend who is growing them in Parkland FL.  These beauties weighed from 1.5 to almost 2 lbs each. He has been harvesting them for the past 3 weeks. They have a little grit but are very sweet and have a flavor similar to birthday cake, which is what I call them. The trees were grafted and not identified but I think the cultivar may be Sarteneja. The trees are very prolific and there are at least 40 large fruits on each tree. I'll take photos of the them later on. How many of you are growing Custard apples and which cultivars? 
FGM                     

(http://s18.postimage.org/p6b21e6g5/Red_Custard_Feb2012_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p6b21e6g5/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6qmg9mjub/)

By the way.. forgot to mention...NICE PICTURES!!! Did u take them!!!

I want that one blown up on my wall!!! :)

No joke!
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 21, 2012, 10:28:37 PM
Yes those are my photos. Took them on top of the stove and that is a fresh banana leaf in the background for contrast. 
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Guanabanus on February 26, 2012, 09:22:05 PM
In the mid-1980's, Laurence Zill, sometimes accompanied by his son Gary, collected red Annona reticulata varieties in Belize and northern Guatemala.  These Custard-Apple varieties he usually named after the town or community where he got graftwood.  These included 'Sarteneja' from the town of Sartenaja, 'Chonox,' 'Benque,' 'Canul,' and 'San Pablo,' all from Belize (so not from a state of Brazil), and Tikal (not from the actual ruins).   Gary Zill later returned alone to northern Guatemala and collected the 'El Remate,' 'Tart,' and 'León,' named in honor of Dr. Jorge León, eminent plant collector in Central America, who provided us with a lot of initial guidance.

The Zills sent me to western Guatemala several times.  I collected varieties of ilama, Annona diversifolia, including 'Genova Red,' and Genova White,' both from the town of Genova, 'Guillermo' from the yard of a man by that name near Retahuleu, and 'Pajapita' from the town of that name near the border with Mexico.

On cold hardiness--- several degrees of difference can be made by the general condition of the plant and the abscence or presence of other stressing factors, and by presence or lack of frost-nucleating bacteria or other particles.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: murahilin on February 26, 2012, 09:32:13 PM
In the mid-1980's, Laurence Zill, sometimes accompanied by his son Gary, collected red Annona reticulata varieties in Belize and northern Guatemala.  These Custard-Apple varieties he usually named after the town or community where he got graftwood.  These included 'Sarteneja' from the town of Sartenaja, 'Chonox,' 'Benque,' 'Canul,' and 'San Pablo,' all from Belize (so not from a state of Brazil), and Tikal (not from the actual ruins).   Gary Zill later returned alone to northern Guatemala and collected the 'El Remate,' 'Tart,' and 'León,' named in honor of Dr. Jorge León, eminent plant collector in Central America, who provided us with a lot of initial guidance.

The Zills sent me to western Guatemala several times.  I collected varieties of ilama, Annona diversifolia, including 'Genova Red,' and Genova White,' both from the town of Genova, 'Guillermo' from the yard of a man by that name near Retahuleu, and 'Pajapita' from the town of that name near the border with Mexico.

On cold hardiness--- several degrees of difference can be made by the general condition of the plant and the abscence or presence of other stressing factors, and by presence or lack of frost-nucleating bacteria or other particles.

Are these varieties available anywhere? It seems that only a few of all the varieties collected is still available?

Also, is the town in Belize called Sarteneja or Sarteneja? The only town in Belize that I've been able to find is Sarteneja. Would that change the common pronunciation of the fruit name?

http://sarteneja.net/ (http://sarteneja.net/)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Guanabanus on February 26, 2012, 09:48:42 PM
Sheehan,
You are right  about the spelling.  I admit I had never looked up the town of Sarteneja on the map.  It is in the Corozal district where Laurence Zill owned a farm for many years.

You are right that many of the varieties mentioned no longer seem to exist in Florida.  Some were only used to breed with.  Hopefully someone still has the 'Canul.'
'San Pablo' and 'Sarteneja' are still around.   'Benque', and 'Tikal,' under our care at least, were not productive enough to promote, although they had  vividly red flesh.  'Chonox' was not great tasting, but was a botanical curiosity as to the number of flowers per cluster.

'Pajapita', 'Genova Red', and 'Guillermo' still exist in Florida, most on pond-apple rootstock showing development of delayed incompatibility, but still producing loads of fruit, better than on most other rootsotcks.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 27, 2012, 07:20:34 PM
Har

I bought a Zill "Canul" many years and fruited it in Davie FL. The fruit was very nice but I moved to Coral Spgs and left the tree. I hope the current owners still have that tree.

Noel (FGM)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: adiel on February 28, 2012, 03:40:51 PM
For flavor, what would be the best ones to grow in Florida?

Adiel
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 28, 2012, 07:43:06 PM
Adiel
San Pablo, Canul, Tikal, Sarteneja are all nice. I found out today that the Custard Apple fruit pictured in the beginning of this thread was grafted from a large Custard apple tree that Richard Wilson grows on his property close to his house.

Sheehan
Do you know the name of the Excaliber red custard apple?       
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: murahilin on February 28, 2012, 07:44:34 PM
Adiel
San Pablo, Canul, Tikal, Sarteneja are all nice. I found out today that the Custard Apple fruit pictured in the beginning of this thread was grafted from a large Custard apple tree that Richard Wilson grows on his property close to his house.

Sheehan
Do you know the name of the Excaliber red custard apple?     

Excalibur's is the Sarteneja.
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 28, 2012, 09:15:42 PM
Adiel
San Pablo, Canul, Tikal, Sarteneja are all nice. I found out today that the Custard Apple fruit pictured in the beginning of this thread was grafted from a large Custard apple tree that Richard Wilson grows on his property close to his house.

Sheehan
Do you know the name of the Excaliber red custard apple?     

Noel

What rootstock do you guys use to graft custard apple? can you use cherimoya?

JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on February 29, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
Here it's best to use A. reticulata rootstock.  Cherimoya does not work well here but may be OK in Calif. 
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: JF on February 29, 2012, 11:11:19 PM
Here it's best to use A. reticulata rootstock.  Cherimoya does not work well here but may be OK in Calif.

I will try to graft one on to  cherimoya seedling and see if it works. Now I have to find scion anyone want to make a donation ;D

JF
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Felipe on March 01, 2012, 07:15:13 AM
JF, please keep us updated! I also want to graft reticulata, but have only chirimoya rootstocks in pots...
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: behlgarden on June 06, 2012, 12:12:51 PM
I picked up some Red Custard apples  (Annona reticulata} today (Feb15th) from a friend who is growing them in Parkland

http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg (http://s13.postimage.org/6qmg9mjub/Red_Custard_Feb2012_004.jpg)[/img][/url]

Are these trees as cold tolerant as mango trees?? Beautiful fruit and has me interested. I emailed Lara Miami and he said one gallon specimens will ready this summer of  the  Fernandez Custard Apple (Chirimoya)
Lara photo--->>

Hi Zands and others, does anyone has access to these dark red Custard Apple scions? I would love to get a few, even if it means paying for it. Please let me know. 

Behl
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/405553_315162141847437_133447883352198_1031633_1555353391_n.jpg)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=315162141847437&set=pu.133447883352198&type=1&theater)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Pan Dulce on June 06, 2012, 07:20:25 PM
Hey Noel,

what is your old address?  seems like meeting the current owner is in order.

or maybe some quick tree trimming   

Andre
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: Capt Ram on November 20, 2017, 07:49:52 AM
Last spring I was given a custard apple tree that came from the RareFruitC. In Palm Beach..thay gave away quite a few...does anyone know what kind it is and how long to fruit??? IN PALM Beach County? ?
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: LEOOEL on March 25, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
I call it ‘Paradise Custard Apple.’

I believe it’s officially called ‘Fernandez Custard Apple.’

My Review:
I just love it served chilled.
It has none of those sandy, grainy pebbles.
When eaten hungry it tastes like paradise to me.
I got it from Lara Farms.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBdnX1M2/12-B06-FFE-F438-4-AFF-8-B0-B-55-EB6-DCD73-DE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBdnX1M2)
Title: Re: Red Custard Apples Florida
Post by: pineislander on March 26, 2021, 08:11:07 AM
Fruits from this one were distributed by Miami Fruit last year and I am planting out some seedlings this summer.
They are calling it Red Rane Custard Apple:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCWMy4jL/Red-Rane-Custard-Apple-Miami-Fruit.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCWMy4jL)