New Cotton Candy Grape

[simon_grow]

I just tried a new variety of grape called Cotton Candy and it tastes exactly like cotton candy in a good way. I picked it up at Nijiya Market. This variety is trademarked and I hope they will make plants available in the near future. The grapes are green in color and have their normal texture. The size is about 50% larger than a Thompson seedless. Oh yeah, they are seedless. When you take a bite into the grape, the cotton candy flavor immediately overwhelms your taste buds with a distinctly cotton candy flavor explosion.
Simon

[murahilin]

If I were them, I would never make the plants available. It sounds really good and I will be on the look out for them at the grocery store. The article below talks about the Cotton Candy grape and another new grape cultivar that is a different shape than regular grapes. Can't wait to try both of them.

http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=84993

[zands]

My 2¢ worth is larger and seedless translates into a serious hybrid that will be a pain to cultivate.

[bsbullie]

Please let me know if anybody sees the cotton candy grape in SFla area (Northern Broward and PBC specifically).

[HMHausman]

I can appreciate the flavor of cotton candy for what it is.....spun sugar.  However, it is tough to relate that flavor to a grape.  Sounds like a much better marketing name than one descriptive of its flavor.  You said that it reminds you of the flavor of cotton candy and you are the one who tasted it, so I am obviously not going to challenge your description.  But all the cotton candy I have ever eaten tastes like sugar.  Sweet on sweet on sweet.  Has your cotton candy eating experience been any different than mine?

Harry

[murahilin]

I can appreciate the flavor of cotton candy for what it is.....spun sugar.  However, it is tough to relate that flavor to a grape.  Sounds like a much better marketing name than one descriptive of it flavor.  You said that it reminds you of the flavor of cotton candy and you are the one who tasted it, so I am obviously not going to challenge your description.  But all the cotton candy I have ever eaten tastes like sugar.  Sweet on sweet on sweet.  Has your cotton candy eating experience been any different than mine?

Harry

I love the taste of cotton candy and I think it would be a good flavor for a grape. Stop hating on the cotton candy flavored grape Harry.

[Hollywood]

LOL. Harry, you say "sweet on sweet on sweet" like that's a bad thing. I want to taste one too!

[HMHausman]

LOL. Harry, you say "sweet on sweet on sweet" like that's a bad thing. I want to taste one too!

No, I don't think sweet is a bad thing.  I'm just having trouble imagining a grape that has a cotton candy taste.  True, I usually prefer a fruit with some balance or complexity to it, but I am certainly open to tasting a sweet grape with no such balance or complexity. So, bring it on!

Harry

[simon_grow]

Ha ha, what Harry said is very logical but cotton candy doesn't taste like just spun sugar to me(even though thats exactly what it is), there is an actual flavor of cotton candy that I can't describe but it is definitely cotton candy taste.  I don't know what if any additional flavorings are added to the spun sugar of cotton candy but whatever it is, this new grape captures it in a good way, at least for me.  It probably tastes so good to me because it is new and novel but the novelty might wear off, or it might not and its going to be the next "it" fruit.  I can't wait for others to try it and hear how they will describe this new grape.  When you try this new grape, I'm sure you will definitely notice this cotton candy flavor.  I wonder how this new grape variety was developed?  Natural breeding, GMO or something else?
Simon

[fruitlovers]

Ha ha, what Harry said is very logical but cotton candy doesn't taste like just spun sugar to me(even though thats exactly what it is), there is an actual flavor of cotton candy that I can't describe but it is definitely cotton candy taste.  I don't know what if any additional flavorings are added to the spun sugar of cotton candy but whatever it is, this new grape captures it in a good way, at least for me.  It probably tastes so good to me because it is new and novel but the novelty might wear off, or it might not and its going to be the next "it" fruit.  I can't wait for others to try it and hear how they will describe this new grape.  When you try this new grape, I'm sure you will definitely notice this cotton candy flavor.  I wonder how this new grape variety was developed?  Natural breeding, GMO or something else?
Simon

Not GMO. Done through conventional breeding:
Cotton Candy® breeder, Dr David Cain, is the world-renowned grape breeding specialist and founder of International Fruit Genetics (IFG) in Delano, California. His tireless work in the laboratory and in the field has seen over 75,000 different grape seedlings grown since IFG’s inception in 2001. From these trials, very few grapes make it through to commercial reality – finding varieties that meet his exacting criteria is a long process. Cotton Candy® is therefore very special indeed, resulting from a cross-pollination of parent material from IFG’s own varieties and those obtained from the University of Arkansas through an exclusive contract. At the heart of Cotton Candy® is a Lambrusca variety, offering a distinctive but extremely sweet flavour experience, and drawing from much of the current understanding about breeding grapes for wine.
http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=84993

[BMc]

Interesting. Do Americans like any of their fruit to taste like they are supposed to? 

I'm imagining a nice big fleshy grape with a taste like a panama berry?

[Mike T]

Fairy Floss in my vernacular and I'm with Harry on this one.A grape that taste like sugar froth and food color is hard to imagine but it sounds bland and lacking 'complexity'.

[fruitlovers]

Americans are prejudiced towards the super sweet, for example super sweet corn, and now super sweet grapes. They also like everything seedless. So i'm guessing this will be a real hit. 
PS Seems like Australians like the super sweet passionfruits also!

[amaqeq]

that's a conspiracy against the islets of Langerhans Beta cells

[Mike T]

Oscar sweet passions have a complexity of other flavors, justv a lack of sourness.The Bosworth 3 syndrome is the lure of pure sugar and water taste rather than the interplay of taste characteristics.

[fruitlovers]

Oscar sweet passions have a complexity of other flavors, justv a lack of sourness.The Bosworth 3 syndrome is the lure of pure sugar and water taste rather than the interplay of taste characteristics.

Mike, this is all in the tongue of the beholder. Personally i love B-3. The ones i grow anyway i believe are top notch lychees.

[BMc]

KMP is also loved as you cant miss with growing them yourself. They are a very good staple lychee, but not in the next level class with Salathiel and friends. I thought the sweet without complexity issue was mostly something encountered in apples and grapes bred and picked for market.

[fruitlovers]

KMP is also loved as you cant miss with growing them yourself. They are a very good staple lychee, but not in the next level class with Salathiel and friends. I thought the sweet without complexity issue was mostly something encountered in apples and grapes bred and picked for market.

The thing with KMP, alias B-3, is that it is the most reliably bearing lychee for me. Have a Salathiel, No Mai Tze, and others considered top class lychees, but what good are they for me as they will never bear here?

[Mike T]

Oscar and that is the ugly irony here as well.KMP and luckily tai so/mauritius are the most reliable fruiters in my home town.Just 50 miles south along the coast plantations of KMP reliable produce loads of fruit.The adjacent tablelands has many varieties and they are for sale everywhere in late Nov to March.People here put up with ass-dragging lychee trees for years only to lash out and chop them down in the end.A 1 in 35 year cold snap might bring some of these into flower but it is not worth it.

[fruitlovers]

If i could connect my Salathiel and No Mai Tze lychee trees to the automatic ice cube maker of my fridge i could get some fruits. 

[Mike T]

Oscar if they are not being used for propagation and sent to cooler places I would top work them with tai so/mauritius or KMP.You may get more satisfaction connecting then with the sharp side of an axe if they have abused your hospitality for too long.

[fruitlovers]

Oscar if they are not being used for propagation and sent to cooler places I would top work them with tai so/mauritius or KMP.You may get more satisfaction connecting then with the sharp side of an axe if they have abused your hospitality for too long.

No axe, or more realistically chainsaw, in their future. They function as air layer factories for locales that can fruit them.

[BMc]

KMP is also loved as you cant miss with growing them yourself. They are a very good staple lychee, but not in the next level class with Salathiel and friends. I thought the sweet without complexity issue was mostly something encountered in apples and grapes bred and picked for market.

The thing with KMP, alias B-3, is that it is the most reliably bearing lychee for me. Have a Salathiel, No Mai Tze, and others considered top class lychees, but what good are they for me as they will never bear here?

Yep, thats the problem with most first class cultivars of many fruits - they are pains in the backsides. Salathiel does well here, but is slow and biennial. NMT is so slow its scary. The travesty is that this is their prefferred climate  KMP on the other hand, you can plant on its head and you'll get fruit. You can keep it in pots for several years and prune hard and still get fruit. If a Salathiel ever sees a pair of pruners it will be too scared to fruit for another 5 years!

Anyhow, grapes? I have two that I may post pics of for ID. They dont taste like shop grapes, more tropical - almost like Jaboticaba. Anyone have any idea what they might be from that half-arsed descripition?

[fruitlovers]

KMP is also loved as you cant miss with growing them yourself. They are a very good staple lychee, but not in the next level class with Salathiel and friends. I thought the sweet without complexity issue was mostly something encountered in apples and grapes bred and picked for market.

The thing with KMP, alias B-3, is that it is the most reliably bearing lychee for me. Have a Salathiel, No Mai Tze, and others considered top class lychees, but what good are they for me as they will never bear here?

Yep, thats the problem with most first class cultivars of many fruits - they are pains in the backsides. Salathiel does well here, but is slow and biennial. NMT is so slow its scary. The travesty is that this is their prefferred climate  KMP on the other hand, you can plant on its head and you'll get fruit. You can keep it in pots for several years and prune hard and still get fruit. If a Salathiel ever sees a pair of pruners it will be too scared to fruit for another 5 years!

Anyhow, grapes? I have two that I may post pics of for ID. They dont taste like shop grapes, more tropical - almost like Jaboticaba. Anyone have any idea what they might be from that half-arsed descripition?

Could they be muscadines?

[NewGen]

A local store has Cotton Candy, I was able to try them last year, delicious. In fact, ALL of the grape varieties listed here are awesome.
 http://grapery.biz/products I think I'm gonna remove my Home Depot name-less grapes and plant some of these.

[fruitlovers]

A local store has Cotton Candy, I was able to try them last year, delicious. In fact, ALL of the grape varieties listed here are awesome.
 http://grapery.biz/products I think I'm gonna remove my Home Depot name-less grapes and plant some of these.

About the only grapes that make it into the stores here are Thompson seedless. I find most of the grapes found in  USA supermakerts to be incredibly blah! I hope this cultivar is an improvement. But i've yet to eat any seedless grape that was any good.

[simon_grow]

Hey NewGen, thanks for the link.  They mention the new "Cotton Candy" variety, I wonder if they sell plants? 

As for Lychees, I wonder if innarching a B-3 onto your Salathiel will help with fruiting?  Perhaps something easier to try is girdling or the use of Fulvic acid with high concentrations of organic phosphorus fertilizers?
Simon

[fruitlovers]

Hey NewGen, thanks for the link.  They mention the new "Cotton Candy" variety, I wonder if they sell plants? 

As for Lychees, I wonder if innarching a B-3 onto your Salathiel will help with fruiting?  Perhaps something easier to try is girdling or the use of Fulvic acid with high concentrations of organic phosphorus fertilizers?
Simon

Why would inarching work? Seems to me that what would happen is that only the part that is B-3 would fruit. Or do you actually mean to top work the whole tree to B-3? I think girdling only works on trees that bear sometimes, not ones that never bear. But i haven't tried it on Salathiel.

[Mike T]

I don't know if anything can make a recalcitrant lychee fruitful like can be done with longans.I think it would be easiets to graft onto 4 or 5 dominant shoots after it is cut down to size.Several varieties could be topworked onto it and it would be a pain to trim the sub-dominant shoots for a year or so.
Maroo seedless is a small sweet black seedless grape that is grown on the tablelands here and it has heat tolerance but not rain tolerance.A red derivative of thompson seedless with more taste is a worthwhile grape here with more flavor.

[zands]

A local store has Cotton Candy, I was able to try them last year, delicious. In fact, ALL of the grape varieties listed here are awesome.
 http://grapery.biz/products I think I'm gonna remove my Home Depot name-less grapes and plant some of these.

About the only grapes that make it into the stores here are Thompson seedless. I find most of the grapes found in  USA supermakerts to be incredibly blah! I hope this cultivar is an improvement. But i've yet to eat any seedless grape that was any good.

Those green Thompson grapes are crap. My observation is the darker the grape (at supermarkets) the better and with seeds is more better. So I go for black grapes first. The red grapes can look dark and I pick the darkest among them. Hawaii connects with Chile so.......look for mid-to-end harvest Chilean black grapes. Delicious! And they had seeds so maybe I won't see this again given the lazy seedless inclinations of too many Americans. It is also harder to find seeded watermelon here (south Florida)

Meanwhile I have four kinds Muscadine grapes growing so next year should be good. Have mostly branch and leaf this year. Muscadines most assuredly have seeds which is obviously OK by me

[simon_grow]

Hello Oscar, I was thinking that in arching a fruitful lychee variety onto an unfruitful variety might impart flowering hormones and growth factors onto the unfruitful variety. My thinking is that if the graft is successful, hormones/growth factors/genetic material will be shared between trees. This is just my daydream but it would be cool if one were to notice an effect with this type of graft. I remember reading somewhere that citrus trees were dying from some sort of disease and growers were able to save trees by in arching them with some disease resistant rootstock. If innarched trees can impart disease resistance, it shouldn't be too far of a stretch for innarched lychees to impart factors that increase yields.
Simon

[Tim]

Dammit Simon, I drove all the way down there in this heat to find absolutely nothing.  Likewise for Mitsuwa 

[fruitlovers]

Hello Oscar, I was thinking that in arching a fruitful lychee variety onto an unfruitful variety might impart flowering hormones and growth factors onto the unfruitful variety. My thinking is that if the graft is successful, hormones/growth factors/genetic material will be shared between trees. This is just my daydream but it would be cool if one were to notice an effect with this type of graft. I remember reading somewhere that citrus trees were dying from some sort of disease and growers were able to save trees by in arching them with some disease resistant rootstock. If innarched trees can impart disease resistance, it shouldn't be too far of a stretch for innarched lychees to impart factors that increase yields.
Simon

That's an interesting theory Simon. But i think it is stress hours, either from cold (below 55F) or from lack of water, that causes flowering, not hormones in the plant. But i wish you were right as that would be an easy way to crack the lychee inconsistent fruiting enigma.

[simon_grow]

Tim, I go to Nijiya Market every week and I will pick up a pack next week to share with you.  I'll pm you when I pick it up(if they restocked).

Yeah Oscar, maybe only in my daydreams but there is a small possibility it could work.  I just happened to notice that my Big Jim loquat that is grafted onto a seedling loquat is flowering.  The upper grafted Big Jim branches are flowering while the lower rootstock branches are only showing vegetative growth right now.  The Big Jim branches are more mature as I have been removing all the branches that were forming below the graft(up until about 3 weeks ago) but still, none of the seedling branches have flower buds on them.  I might have just disproved my own theory.  I definitely would not expect the seedling loquat to flower for even the next 1-2 years so if any of the branches below the graft do flower within this time period, then this will give a tiny bit of weight to my theory.    I should also mention that this is a very unusual time for Loquat to flower in San Diego.  There are many loquat trees in my neighborhood and I don't see any other tree with flower buds.  I actually can't ever recall seeing any of my parents loquat trees flower in Sept.  I did give my Loquat some organic 0-10-10 plus kelp emulsion and a bit of Fulvic acid a couple weeks ago. 
Simon

[fruitlovers]

Tim, I go to Nijiya Market every week and I will pick up a pack next week to share with you.  I'll pm you when I pick it up(if they restocked).

Yeah Oscar, maybe only in my daydreams but there is a small possibility it could work.  I just happened to notice that my Big Jim loquat that is grafted onto a seedling loquat is flowering.  The upper grafted Big Jim branches are flowering while the lower rootstock branches are only showing vegetative growth right now.  The Big Jim branches are more mature as I have been removing all the branches that were forming below the graft(up until about 3 weeks ago) but still, none of the seedling branches have flower buds on them.  I might have just disproved my own theory.  I definitely would not expect the seedling loquat to flower for even the next 1-2 years so if any of the branches below the graft do flower within this time period, then this will give a tiny bit of weight to my theory.    I should also mention that this is a very unusual time for Loquat to flower in San Diego.  There are many loquat trees in my neighborhood and I don't see any other tree with flower buds.  I actually can't ever recall seeing any of my parents loquat trees flower in Sept.  I did give my Loquat some organic 0-10-10 plus kelp emulsion and a bit of Fulvic acid a couple weeks ago. 
Simon

Hi Simon, it's possible that mature loquats could impact juvenille seedling loquat that is grafted onto it to flower and fruit. There is evidence that this works, at least on some trees. Not sure about loquats. But there is a big difference between triggering maturity hormones to the case with lychees. Lychees that don't fruit is not because they are not mature enough, but because they aren't going through correct climate cyclel of stress, either through cold temperatures, or lack of water. How grafting a more tropical type of lychee onto a sub tropical lychee would force it to fruit has not been explained. I suppose it's worth a try because lots of mysteries still remain about what activates lychees to fruit.

[Mike T]

Thge leaves are the tress sensory organs and producers of phytohormones to trigger flowering.If you could graft a branch of chocanon onto other mangoes to induce them to fruit out of season or multiple varieties onto one tree that cordinated flowering and fruiting of all types at the same time it would be great.If you could just graft a fruitful branch onto a recalcitrant tree to make it productive I think it would be common practice.

[fruitlovers]

What Simon is proposing is the same as having a cocktail tree. If you do this with an apple it's not going to change the chill factor needed by each cultivar. So i don't think it will work with lychee either.

[fyliu]

Dammit Simon, I drove all the way down there in this heat to find absolutely nothing.  Likewise for Mitsuwa 

Saves me the trip. I'll look locally in LA instead.

[simon_grow]

Good point Oscar.  Fyliu and Tim, I will got to Nijiya tomorrow and let you know if there is any new stock.  If they have new stock, I will purchase a pack and let you know and you can stop by to try it out.  Simon

[simon_grow]

I went to Nijiya yesterday and they did not have any more of the cotton candy grapes. I'll update this thread if and when they ate available again.