Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?

[gunnar429]

I am a grafting newbie and have only just started to have some success.  I love using buddy tape to prevent from bagging the scions...and I love how you can see it pushing without unwrapping.  The problem is that I am a little clumsy and it is difficult to wrap the union tight enough, especially with buddy tape.  I got some green tape from Adam a while back and it seemed to work well, but I would prefer something that will hold the tightness initially while I try to neaten up the rest of the wrap. 

My thinking is that black electrical tape would work well for the union part and then I could use buddy tape to wrap the scion to prevent water getting in/scion from drying out.

Is this a bad idea?

Go!

[skhan]

Newbie at grafting here too so I feel your pain. I've been using flagging tape for this.

[gunnar429]

Newbie at grafting here too so I feel your pain. I've been using flagging tape for this.

I especially hate when trying to graft (usually veneer) onto green wood which promptly snaps off when I try to wrap the graft tightly.  I am new to flagging tape, but open to anything that pulls tight without breakage and sticks to itself since  I haven't mastered life as an Octopus yet.

[bsbullie]

Flagging tape as in the type of tape to mark the trees for purchase at a nursery?

[rliou]

I have actually bought a tree with the black electric tape used as grafting tape so i think its possible to use it for grafting

[pschill444@aol.com]

electrical tape comes in many colors , i always use the white  just in case the heat matters with the darker colars 1 and 1/2 wraps is all it takes you can pull it tighter than you need with no breaking,i bend over a small tab on end  to make removing easer, this works well for my stiff hands.          Patrick

[skhan]

Flagging tape as in the type of tape to mark the trees for purchase at a nursery?

Yup I think it's the same kind.
I Find it to be a good multipurpose tape are the yard, tying up trees, marking them, easy enough to write on. I use it in conjunction with parafilm. If you double it up or fold it in half it's can withstand a good bit of tension.
This is mainly for the older wood that's need more force to ensure good contact. I wrap the graft (only) directly with the flagging tape and wrap the scions and graft with parafilm to keep it water tight.

Ideally I want to get good enough where I don't need it. But I guess whatever works for now.

Also a tip I learned at the recent grafting class at rfvcb (taught by Sal) is to fold the parafilm M in half twice and you get pretty good tension that way too.

There are plenty of more experienced grafters on the forum, they'll have better insight than me. Just thought I'd share what works for me.

[cos]

I have had good luck using a twist tie [ the kind with wire in center] & wrapping around twice so that good pressure can be applied.
Once I see buds sprout I loosen the twist tie & leave the rest of tape alone.

[gunnar429]

electrical tape comes in many colors , i always use the white  just in case the heat matters with the darker colars 1 and 1/2 wraps is all it takes you can pull it tighter than you need with no breaking,i bend over a small tab on end  to make removing easer, this works well for my stiff hands.          Patrick

Wow, Patrick.  You opened my eyes--I thought it only came in black...Thanks for the tip regarding the pull-tab for easier removal.  Good to know I can utilize this method in the future.

[shaneatwell]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

[ricshaw]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

[Solko]

Hi, electrical tape works well to make the graft, in my experience, but it is the untying process that is the problem.

I used it for all my grafts the first year I started grafting specifically for that reason: it helps you tie the graft in a much firmer way. I realized the trouble with it came when it was time to remove the tape. I got good takes on my grafts and was all happy and proud. But on some trees he glue on the tape had glued so well to the bark, that I ripped of parts of the bark on my otherwise good grafts. That made me lose half of my grafts in the end at the untying stage.
After that I studied how to tie a graft a bit better in youtube movies and I now use parafilm, or cut strips of plastic bags if I need something stronger.

[DimplesLee]

I guess I'm more of a noob than you Jeff - I find it easier to use white poly budding tape then I just use the smallest and most flexible cable ties to "seal" the tape on both ends. I'm afraid to use clear grafting tape - might scorch the graft Union or bud as I just leave newly grafted plants in an area where they get some morning sun. If they don't survive that, too bad - I chalk it up to natural selection not my poor grafting skills

[EvilFruit]

This guy from Iraq is using electrical tape to keep the union in place. See at 2:30 min

http://youtu.be/hDt55RzNV-I

[Raulglezruiz]

Where do you usually get parafilm tape in America? I Mean supermarket? Drugstore? I haven't seen it here in Mexico, maybe I haven't look in the right place, what is the most common use for it, is designed specially for grafted? I Thought it was similar to the one is use here to wrapped the meat of the fruits in the supermarkets, I bought it and use it,  but it comes very wide so I cut it in long strips,  it worked at some point but it doesn't have the elasticity that I noticed in parafilm while unwrapping some mango scions I received from Florida, so any lead for the kind of stablishment I should look for to get them, thanks!

[barath]

For grafts that require tension I use electrical tape on top of parafilm.  It's worked our relatively well.  For grafts that don't need a lot of tension, I just fold parafilm over and that gives it enough strength to hold in place.

I am thinking of switching to buddy tape, though, because parafilm is a little too brittle.

[gunnar429]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?

[shaneatwell]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?

I've done that a couple times, but more often I'll wrap the scion/junction first with grafting tape as tight as I can without disturbing it first. Sometimes that's not very tight. Then I'll wrap the rubber band, really cranking it.

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.

[gunnar429]

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but I started using rubber bands this year and my success rate has improved dramatically.

Cut rubber band seems to work better for me.

So do you hold the scion in place, wrap the rubber band tightly, then just wrap buddy tape over the rubber band?

I've done that a couple times, but more often I'll wrap the scion/junction first with grafting tape as tight as I can without disturbing it first. Sometimes that's not very tight. Then I'll wrap the rubber band, really cranking it.

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.

Ok, will have to try that method eventually.  I have trouble with cleft grafts, when I am trying to tighten the union, they seem to pop up and out of the wedge. 

[shaneatwell]

Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.

[gunnar429]

Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.

is there a specific type of rubber band that you recommend?

[ricshaw]

Where do you usually get parafilm tape in America? I Mean supermarket? Drugstore? I haven't seen it here in Mexico, maybe I haven't look in the right place, what is the most common use for it, is designed specially for grafted?

I found it on Amazon.com. There is parafilm sold for grafting and I think there is parafilm used in "labs".

See:  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parafilm

[ricshaw]

Exactly. Rubber band has really helped me in that regard.

is there a specific type of rubber band that you recommend?

Jeff, I just find a larger rubber band, about 1/8" wide, with good stretch, and cut it. It needs to be long enough that you can "tie" the end after wrapping the graft.

[ricshaw]

One thing I really like about the rubber band is that it pretty much falls apart on its own after a few months.

And if it does not fall off after a couple of months, I just cut it with a sharp knife and it comes off easy.

[Andrew]

I would agree with most of the other post and I'll give me two cents. I originally grafted using electrical tape and I would rate it as Ok at best. I found that after awhile it would start cutting into the tree and I would than have to cut it off with a razor blade, sometimes doing more damage. I normally had about a 60 percent success rate using this method. Rubber bands seems to be working a lot better, they actively push the rootstock and scion together with a even force and seem to pop off by themselves when they are ready. Here is a recent batch that I wouldn't be surprised if I get a 100 percent success rate with.