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Topics - caladri

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Citrus General Discussion / On extremely compact seedlings.
« on: June 21, 2023, 12:24:20 AM »
I thought the group might find this interesting. Those of us who grow lots of seedlings witness a wide range of mutations and unexpected growth habits, many of which seem to rapidly decline. Now and then I see seedlings with a very small growth habit, which don't tend to survive long. I wanted to share one which so far has survived, I think, a little bit more than a year, while still retaining an extremely compact form.


These three yuzu seedlings were grown from the same batch of seed collected from commercial yuzu fruit, almost certainly from a planting of VI 619. They were germinated at around the same time, and then potted up at the same time. They're a bit more than a year old, although I don't tend to keep records of when I've sown what, and can't be more specific. They spent the winter in an unheated garage and spent last summer sheltered on a cool outdoor rack, and so didn't put on much growth until this year. They've been in an unheated greenhouse since late winter, around February, and have had sun protection since around April. (It's a new greenhouse, and I've had some really difficult days managing sun and heat!)


This is the middle-sized seedling of the lot, being about three inches tall. You can see five or six leaf nodes.


Here is the largest of the three, about six inches tall. I treat my plants pretty lazily and in non-ideal conditions, so the variation between these two is typical. Maybe six or seven nodes.


This is the extremely compact seedling. You can see that the leaves are significantly smaller and darker, and that difference in colour is even more obvious in person. It's around a quarter of an inch tall. I think others have mentioned having tetraploid seedlings whose leaves are similarly small and dark?


Seen from the side, it is apparent that the node count is roughly similar, and that the inter-node spacing is extremely compressed compared to normal. (A friend of mine joked that the USSR would've loved this for their attempts to breed short, sprawling citrus that could be grown in trenches without much management. "Flat trees," I think was the goal.)

I have no idea if it will continue to survive, and perhaps it will die as a fleeting curiosity, as so many strange seedlings do — I hope not. It's oddly charismatic, especially in person, and I'd love some day to be able to see if grafting it onto a more vigorous rootstock results in pushing more growth with the same small inter-node distance, or if it would change growth habit completely. I haven't made any inspection of its roots, and given my expectation that it would be rather fragile, I'm not yet inclined to try.

Anyone else have any curiously-compact citrus seedlings? :)

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Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / WTB: Allspice tangelo fruit.
« on: February 19, 2023, 03:01:44 PM »
Wondering if anyone in the US has any allspice tangelo fruit and would be willing to deal with the hassle of shipping. I've tried reaching out to folks in Arizona who sell them, without any success. Not sure if the season might have already passed for the year, but I'd be interested in talking to anyone who might be able to provide some next year, if it comes to that. Thanks :)

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This winter I have taken the opportunity to try a wider range of citrus imported from Japan thanks to the help of a number of friends and suppliers. The nice thing about being in Canada is being able to import a much wider range of citrus since we don't (really) have a citrus industry. In years past I've mostly brought in shekwasha, but this year I wanted to record some subjective observations of as many different varieties as I could. I'd be very interested if others have had similar impressions or experiences, or especially if there's other Japanese citrus that you'd recommend based on the emerging tastes herein!
  • shekwasha: my go-to sour mandarin. While I enjoy the pungent rind in the right applications, it's all about the small, juicy segments. The juice is rich and complex, and when it's fully ripe, it's got a surprisingly deep taste, with a broad complexity faintly reminiscent of a minneola tangelo. Of course, most of the commercial harvest is picked less ripe, but even when sour and green, it's surprisingly edible out of hand, and people I've given them to who aren't citrus nerds agree with that.
  • sudachi: so sharply acidic and funky that I really only found it enjoyable added to other things (it rounds out insipid juices pretty nicely), and I can see how it works best in cooking. The peels are so full of notes I expect from other Rutaceae (especially Zanthoxylum) that I just had to make a batch of marmalade from the peels. It is strange.
  • kito yuzu: this regional yuzu selection is widely sought-after, and I can see why, although I imagine part of the high price is down to selecting the best specimens for market. So pungent that a paper bag of them completely filled my car with aroma almost immediately. The flesh is quite nice out-of-hand, with a bit more subtlety and complexity than the yuzu selections grown in California, as well as being larger, heavier, and all around more charismatic to eye and hand both. The dried rind is noticeably more aromatic and floral.
  • mikkabi mikan: an extremely juicy regional mikan selection which I found pretty indifferent. The flavour is very, very consistent, for lack of a better word. Not entirely one-note, but also not very complex. My partner compared it to the taste of a canned mandarin, and I think that's fair. Hits the major sweet notes of mandarin in a very clear way, but I like a bit more complexity. The texture is velvety and soft.
  • hassaku orange: I wish I had not gotten 4kg of them. Due to weather and Christmas, the shipment was delayed an entire week, and conventional wisdom is that they get bitter after a few days, and the bitterness increases. Frankly, I would have liked a bit of bitterness, but that was not my experience. Most citrus juices contain some amount of various sulfur compounds, but after a few days of eating these past their prime, all I could taste was the rotten egg sulfur undertone in the juice. So much so that I could notice it in other citrus I was eating, and it became slightly challenging to eat anything else. There were some nice flavour notes, too, but they are lost to me, now. I would like to try one when it's properly fresh some day.
  • shishiyuzu / oniyuzu: primarily existing for the gift market, I had low expectations for the quality of the fruit, but I was pleasantly surprised. Like a more aromatic lemon crossed with a acidic pomelo, but not really like anything else I can compare it to, except perhaps a citron. In fact, when the rind and pith were lazily candied, the result had a lovelier texture and a nicer aroma than most citrons I've candied! The juice was sour but had some more complex notes, and I think it was actually worth eating, although mostly once candied.
  • oto: wow. When ripe, they were like a larger, richer, and more rewarding shekwasha. A complex flavour definitely rivaling a fine tangelo, and probably the best exemplar of the sour mandarins I've yet encountered. Deep, dark mandarin flavours with a clear brightness and some spice notes. An instant favourite.
  • jabara: the rind hits hard with some of those Zanthoxylum-like notes, along with an aroma my partner consistently refers to as "plastic", and I think somewhat fairly. There is a cucumber note to the juice, which is sharply but enjoyably acidic, and combined with the funky spice notes, the juice reminds me of pickle juice more than anything else. After juicing, the flesh retains some sweetness and is enjoyable with some warm spice notes like cinnamon, and a total absence of the cucumber flavour. Like with sudachi, I see where this is prized in cooking, but I think the juice would be a lovely flavour in something like a kombucha or a homemade sports drink, being rather clear and vibrant. Hints of tea tree oil aroma in the rind, which combined with the cucumber note of the juice make me feel like I'm smelling soaps at a Lush when cutting into one.
  • kawabata: mild and dry in a way that was reminiscent of a low-quality moro blood orange, complete with some vague melon notes, but very vague, light a dry pomelo. The seeds are amusingly long and needly. Hard to say much about it; reminded me of an extremely dry dekopon, with less flavour, or a mediocre pomelo. In fact, reminds me a lot of a small Korean pomelo I've only had once, but with less flavour. We noted mealy or shrimpy (let the mushroom forager understand) aftertastes which were not desirable, and otherwise had a vigorous row about whether this is the blandest citrus we've ever had.
  • tachibana: I don't know why I thought they were bigger! Closely related (genetically) to shekwasha and oto, it is about the same size and shape as shekwasha, but with a stiffer rind. Very charismatic and deeply coloured in-hand, I can see why most Japanese people I've spoken to think of them as an ornamental rather than a food. The juice is less rewarding and abundant than shekwasha, but otherwise fairly similar. Commentators online say they're bitter, but that wasn't my experience, although some over-ripe specimens had a menthol note which was challenging. I do like a small sour mandarin.
  • yuuko of Nagasaki: weird regional citrus, very tough to peel or separate the segments. Rind smells of a volatile compound (maybe piperine?) that's present in both Zanthoxylum and black peppercorn. The taste is relatively clear and straightforward, reminiscent of a limeade. Somewhere between yuzu and key lime in flavour, but with none of the floral or fragrant notes of either.
  • kabosu: sharp and funky, I can see why it's at-home in savoury applications, but for eating out of hand, it is not that enjoyable. Has the most brittle rind of any, making it hard to juice without getting rindy notes, but that's probably good if you're making a ponzu with it. Definitely more juicy than many of its compatriots, however.
  • hyuganatsu: my beloved! Velvety, succulent texture. The pith is like dense cotton candy, only nicer to touch. Rind is edible, but especially the pith is edible. The fruit itself is juicier than juice, and softer than the mikkabi mikan. The cell walls of the juice vesicles seem to have negative structural integrity. The taste reminds me of a watered-down Vietnamese lemonade, which is such a taste of childhood that I can't resist it. These disappeared extremely quickly, and we were disappointed at how few seeds there were. Definitely something I want to grow, and seek out other fruit that are compared to it. A real winner despite having a kind of middling flavour. Like if sweet limes were simultaneously more enjoyable and also less flavourful. I think I got the pleasure from this that mikkabi mikan fans get from those juicy mandarins. I want a 10kg sack of them, a light beer, and a warm Spring afternoon to wallow in forever.

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Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Japanese citrus growers?
« on: November 23, 2022, 07:11:07 PM »
I'm interested in connecting with any citrus growers in Japan who are willing to ship to Canada, and who are growing Japanese varieties that are not common elsewhere. Personal use importation to Canada does not require a permit, and I have ordered a lot of Citrus depressa from Okinawa in the past with success, and with the cheap fixed-rate boxes available from Japan Post. I'm especially interested in Citrus tachibana, but am open to all varieties :)  Happy to pay by bank transfer or PayPal.

Thank you!

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Citrus General Discussion / Grafting on Severinia buxifolia?
« on: July 12, 2021, 07:22:36 PM »
I've been reading my way through various academic articles on graft and sexual compatibility in Rutaceae, and keep finding off-handed references to Citrus being grafted onto Severinia buxifolia, but no real details on the results of that, other than some of the potential benefits (cold hardiness, decreased boron sensitivity, changes to salinity response, etc.)  (Gosh, there's some great papers out there, like the dissertation on Aegle marmelos sexual compatibility with Aurantioideae, with lots of big, satisfying tables.)

I'm wondering if anyone in the forum has actually played with this at all, and if so what the results were like.  As I understand it, there's specimens that lasted for decades, so it's not just a case of almost-compatible vasculature allowing a bud or scion to limp along, but actually stable and healthy grafts that are long-lasting.

The thing I'm most interested in is vigorousness, but the potential for better graft compatibility than Poncirus with a few outliers is appealing, too.  Has anyone tinkered?  Any observations?

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Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / ISO Hardy citrus cuttings in Canada.
« on: June 10, 2019, 01:20:21 PM »
Hello,

Looking to connect with other folks in Canada who have established hardy citrus and who would be willing to sell some cuttings.  I'm happy with occasionally buying from CCPP and buying seeds from the US for rootstock, but the costs of phytosanitary certificates pile up (to say nothing of how much worse the exchange rate makes the CCPP's non-California budwood prices), and while I know some people bring cuttings in without needing a phytosanitary certificate, I've dealt with CFIA and CBSA enough to not want to deal with the uncertainty of trying.

I'm presently most interested in Prague citsuma, Thomasville citrangequat, and other Poncirus hybrids, but would love to be in connection with other folks tinkering with hardy citrus of all kinds who might be willing to sell cuttings now and then.  Quick payment via e-Transfer, slow mail via Canada Post :)

(Also interested in any sources of Thomasville seeds in Canada or on the US west coast.)

Thanks in advance for any responses!  Would love to be a part of a more robust citrus growing community in the mild parts of Canada :)

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