Bananas flower after 44 leaves?

[TheWaterbug]

Here's an interesting tidbit from CRFG:

Approximately 44 leaves will appear before the inflorescence.

I am very curious to see where that datum comes from, and whether the folks here have verified it. I googled "banana '44 leaves'" and nearly all the search results seem to come from the same source, because they're all worded nearly identically.

Searches for "40 leaves" and "43 leaves" etc. show much more diversity in their citations. One writer said he/she marked the leaves with a black marker and kept count.

Has anyone here done that? I'm considering doing that with this little pup, since I know exactly how many leaves it's ever had (3, as of today):

[RodneyS]

Not true for my dwarf bananas

[fyliu]

That's about the number I heard. Let us know your results and variety in a year.

[TheWaterbug]

Rodney, did you have more or less leaves from your dwarf trees? What variety?

fyliu, mine is a Dwarf Cavendish, purchased from 9GreenBox/amazon.

[From the sea]

Most of mine bloom before that. I don't believe counting leaves is reliable, mine seem the bloom at about the same height after the second or third year.

[RodneyS]

I agree with going by height.  My Dwarf Namwah fruits with only around 9 leaves or so. 

[barath]

I think Jon (the fig / banana guy from San Diego) has said that bananas flower when they want to, and that seems to be the case for me right now.  I have two Goldfingers planted next to each other, and one of them has flowered with way less than 44 leaves and the other has put out at least 44 (if not more) and is only starting to flower now.

[TheWaterbug]

I should clarify that the CRFG article about "44 leaves" (and the others mentioning approximately the same) are talking about cumulative leaf production, not the number of leaves on the tree simultaneously.

So, assuming that the number is 44, the tree might only have 10 leaves showing at the time it flowers, having shed the previous 34.

My year-old Dwarf Cavendish is currently showing 7 leaves, but I have no idea how many it's grown in its lifetime.

[fyliu]

Right. So you're trying to figure out what determines maturity of a banana corm, age or size.

If you mistreat a banana, then either
- it still flowers even when small and sick at 44 leaves
- or it will not flower if too small after 44 leaves and will wait until it's large enough. This is not that likely though, since it's against nature to die before reproducing, even if it doesn't produce seeds.

Could be it's scripted in the genes to produce a set number of flowers and different varieties have different scripts in their genes. Bananas have weird genes anyway. Isn't it one of those things that can have 2 sets or more?

[buddyguygreen]

It all depends on the banana your growing, I can say my saba has had well over 44 leaves and has i would say 44 more to go as its half the size of its full size. Interesting tho im going to start keeping count.

[TheWaterbug]

Right. So you're trying to figure out what determines maturity of a banana corm, age or size.

If you mistreat a banana, then either
- it still flowers even when small and sick at 44 leaves
- or it will not flower if too small after 44 leaves and will wait until it's large enough. This is not that likely though, since it's against nature to die before reproducing, even if it doesn't produce seeds.

Could be it's scripted in the genes to produce a set number of flowers and different varieties have different scripts in their genes. Bananas have weird genes anyway. Isn't it one of those things that can have 2 sets or more?

Yes, I'm wondering whether the number of flowers is genetically hard-coded, like is it for the number of rows on an ear of corn.

If it is hard-coded then fewer visible leaves is still an option if some of the leaf "stem cells" (for lack of a better/correct term) just don't mature and emerge. But more than the coded number shouldn't be possible unless there's a malfunction.

If it isn't hard-coded then it could just be a question of "maturity," however a banana plant defines that.

And, by the way, I would never mistreat my banana tree.

[TheWaterbug]

One writer said he/she marked the leaves with a black marker and kept count.

Has anyone here done that? I'm considering doing that with this little pup, since I know exactly how many leaves it's ever had (3, as of today):

I wrote on a leaf of my adult plant on Friday, and it didn't seem to mind after 3 days:



That's really "10 + N" where N is unknown, but at least I'll have some benchmark for leaves/month, etc.

When my pup gets some slightly larger leaves I'll probably start doing the same. Here is it with 3 leaves. I'm counting that tiny one on the left as #1, since it has some green on it :

[venturabananas]

Here's an interesting tidbit from CRFG:

Approximately 44 leaves will appear before the inflorescence.

Has anyone here done that? I'm considering doing that with this little pup, since I know exactly how many leaves it's ever had (3, as of today):

I have done it a few times.  I've had numbers in the mid-30's.  My understanding is that there is no magical number for any given variety, though there might be some general differences among varieties.

[sapote]

For sure it starts flower when a nice man take care it, like most of us

[TheWaterbug]

That's really "10 + N" where N is unknown, but at least I'll have some benchmark for leaves/month, etc.

Hmmm. I measured some leaves last night:
Leaf #11 (just emerged) is about 37" from where the leaf flares out to where it ends (excluding the little curly pig tail thingy).
Leaf #10 is 34"
Leaf #9 is 31"
Leaf #8 is 28.5"

I'll take some more accurate measurements when I get home, but it looks like it's tacking on approximately 8.3% more leaf per leaf. If I do the math, I should have had a 5.0" leaf about 24 leaves ago and a 3.0" leaf about 30 leaves ago. My pup's Leaf #3 is longer than 3", but it's sword-shaped instead of banana-leaf shaped. Pup leaf #4 should emerge within the next week, and then I can map that length to the table and guesstimate what true number my 37" leaf is. Then I can guess when #44 will emerge and when I'll finally get my flower.

Yes, I'm a geek. And proud.

[TheWaterbug]

I wrote on a leaf of my adult plant on Friday, and it didn't seem to mind after 3 days:



That's really "10 + N" where N is unknown, but at least I'll have some benchmark for leaves/month, etc.

Leaf #13 unfurled just a few days ago, so it's currently growing a new leaf, on average, every 10 days. It's been in the 80s during our Indian Summer in Los Angeles, so I'm sure that will slow down soon: