The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Orkine on March 10, 2018, 03:51:29 PM
-
I was reading an IFAS paper on Atemoya in Florida http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332. (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332.) The authors point out noted
"Atemoya is not graft compatible with pond apple and therefore the use of an interstock is required"
I am trying Atemoya on pond apple and for now it looks like I have a couple of takes but I know they can still fail.
My question is, do any of you know what interstock works?
The authors used "49-11" which they described as " a 'Gefner' atemoya x A. reticulata hybrid"
Does anyone have scions of this hybrid? or any tested interstock?
I intend to continue trying different atemoya on pond apple but I am open to try using this two step approach to get there.
I know there is a chart on the forum of graft compatibility and will be searching for it all afternoon :)
By the way, all is not lost. After last years limited success, I started some cherimoya for root stock and some of my graft this year on 1 year old seedlings of cherimoya.
=====================
Found the table
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0)
-
I was reading an IFAS paper on Atemoya in Florida http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332. (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332.) The authors point out noted
"Atemoya is not graft compatible with pond apple and therefore the use of an interstock is required"
I am trying Atemoya on pond apple and for now it looks like I have a couple of takes but I know they can still fail.
My question is, do any of you know what interstock works?
The authors used "49-11" which they described as " a 'Gefner' atemoya x A. reticulata hybrid"
Does anyone have scions of this hybrid? or any tested interstock?
I intend to continue trying different atemoya on pond apple but I am open to try using this two step approach to get there.
I know there is a chart on the forum of graft compatibility and will be searching for it all afternoon :)
By the way, all is not lost. After last years limited success, I started some cherimoya for root stock and some of my graft this year on 1 year old seedlings of cherimoya.
=====================
Found the table
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0)
Thanks for the info. Very helpful. Now I understand why my atemoya scions never took on PApple. Right on. F.
-
Read http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/CustardApple/AnnonaGrafting111-2-99.htm (http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/CustardApple/AnnonaGrafting111-2-99.htm)
-
Why do you want to put atemoya on pond apple
-
Why do you want to put atemoya on pond apple
Pond apple is capable of growing in a lot of environments that other annonas can't; it's a very resistant (particularly concerning flooding and salt) rootstock, and a fast growing plant in general (to the point of being invasive in some places). But the fruit quality is bottom-rung by annona standards.
Try to picture an Atemoya growing here:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Annona_glabra_-_Brooklyn_Botanic_Garden_-_Brooklyn%2C_NY_-_DSC08033.JPG/1200px-Annona_glabra_-_Brooklyn_Botanic_Garden_-_Brooklyn%2C_NY_-_DSC08033.JPG)
Lots of people have been trying for years with little success to graft popular annonas like atemoya to A. glabra. I find it rather exciting (even though it's not really applicable to me) that some people are finding ways to work around the graft incompatibility. I wonder if interstocks might be a way to work around graft incompatibility between F. religiosa and F. carica...
-
You are not going to grow atemoya in water like that on any rootstock. I graft a lot of atemoya and have put them on. sugar apple ,atemoya, cherimoya and reticulata. If someone has a picture of one growing in water .I would like to see it
-
I have some wet areas that are not very useful for anything but pond apple does well on.
I have tried a couple of cycles of direct grafting and have arrived at the same conclusion, it wont work with my type of pond apple.
The current graft looks like a successful take but start t die back. This is why I am considering the interstock option to see if this can make the spots in my yard usable.
I like to try and half the fun is experimenting. I also want some atemoya and the experiments are not exactly cheap :) so this go around I did a couple of grafts on some cherimoya seedlings I started last year. Hope those stay.
Still interested in interstock if anyone has ideas and wood.
KarenRei, nice picture, tells my story though my wet areas are nothing close to whats in your picture.
-
Try planting a lychee . My back field floods and is wet the lychee do fine
-
I was reading an IFAS paper on Atemoya in Florida http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332. (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg332.) The authors point out noted
"Atemoya is not graft compatible with pond apple and therefore the use of an interstock is required"
I am trying Atemoya on pond apple and for now it looks like I have a couple of takes but I know they can still fail.
My question is, do any of you know what interstock works?
The authors used "49-11" which they described as " a 'Gefner' atemoya x A. reticulata hybrid"
Does anyone have scions of this hybrid? or any tested interstock?
I intend to continue trying different atemoya on pond apple but I am open to try using this two step approach to get there.
I know there is a chart on the forum of graft compatibility and will be searching for it all afternoon :)
By the way, all is not lost. After last years limited success, I started some cherimoya for root stock and some of my graft this year on 1 year old seedlings of cherimoya.
=====================
Found the table
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16673.0)
I have '47-18' grafted onto A. glabra and it has performed better on A. glabra than on A. reticulata in my experience. At 21 months it has flowered many times and currently has fruit set. You can see a photo of the small grafted plant on the compatibility thread. I also have 'Whitman' fiberless A. muricata grafted onto A. glabra. The graft is pushing now and is keeping in time with those grafted onto muricata.
-
Very good taper on that pond apple. My cherimoya rootstocks look anemic.
-
Update:
So I tried several atemoya and a few cherimoya varieties on my pond apple.
Just about all the atemoya have now failed. Some put out leafs but I guess it was the energy left in JFs superb scion. The leaves dried up.
I also tried some cherimoya and atemoya I got from another forum member and for now it looks like the Licia may be a take. I want to test this to see if this is the interstock I am looking for. Of course, that is assuming other things will take on Licia.
So wish me luck, I am looking for Licia scion to graft on.
-
Use custard Apple as inter stock .
-
I am beginning to thinks some cherimoya may be graft compatible with pond apple, at least better than atemoya.
I did a thorough inspection of the trees and in addition to the Licia it appears boothe and white also appear to be growing. Inca red did not take.
-
Use custard Apple as inter stock .
Thanks for the suggestion, it shows as compatible on the table. May try that next if my current experiment fails.
I will need to find budwood for custard apple. Perhaps that is easier to come by.
-
The 'Gefner' that we grafted on 49-11 inter-stock on Pond-Apple 'North' root-stock grew slowly for several years, just above the normal water level of a pond bank, then died, never having fruited.
-
If your down south in the near future you're more then welcome to a few clippings from my custard apple tree
-
Priestly, White and Licia continue to show progress on the pond apple.
White has very tiny leaves but they seem to be doing well other than the size
Priestly has been almost reluctant to grow but still has not dies and has sprouted a few leaves.
Licia seems most at home and is throwing out leaves like it belongs. See pictures below.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/kbDb1x/IMG_20180421_091914004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kbDb1x) (https://thumb.ibb.co/kbDb1x/IMG_20180421_091914004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kbDb1x)
White with several small leaves
(https://thumb.ibb.co/bXi9Mx/IMG_20180421_091922367_1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXi9Mx) (https://thumb.ibb.co/bXi9Mx/IMG_20180421_091922367_1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXi9Mx)
Priestly almost reluctant
(https://thumb.ibb.co/j2LBZH/IMG_20180421_091944456.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j2LBZH) (https://thumb.ibb.co/jS2fTc/IMG_20180421_091949570.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jS2fTc) (https://thumb.ibb.co/iwzigx/IMG_20180421_092004925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iwzigx)
Licia, waxing strong.
For first phase of this experiment, it looks like I have my interstock.
I have put several other Licia scions on a few branches and I am watching them all.
Come next spring, I should have some sites for new atemoya budwood from JF.
-
My Licia on pond apple continues to do well.
I took a look today and got a surprise.
Look closely at these photos, there is something that looks like a flower. I may be wrong but can someone familiar with Licia please confirm.
Also, I assume as with mango it is prudent to take the flower off and let the scion grow for at least a season.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/h9EwZS/IMG_20180501_193009051_BURST001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h9EwZS) (https://thumb.ibb.co/bDWM17/IMG_20180501_192853540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bDWM17)
-
Is the 'Licia' a cherimoya?
-
Har, "Licia" and "Rosa" came from Madeira Island via JackfruitWhisperer69. "Rosa" was supposedly a 60 year old seedling , his grandmother's. No further info on "Licia" and JFW69 has not been active to my knowledge for some time. They look like Cherimoya leaves.
The Scion I sent out came from a tree that fruited profusely with no hand pollination.
-
Thank you for jogging my memory. I do recall reading about those.
-
B2B, so are those flowers and should I knock them off. Or should I leave them and the plant will take care of that by itself.
The root stock has flowered, still has one or two, and set one fruit.
-
If you graft on 1 year old seedling, remove flowers.
Your tree is big. You can get fruit from new scion this year.
-
Its on a relatively big pond apple tree that had fruit the last couple of years. Not a huge tree, I have much larger ones but a good size.
I will leave it on for now.
So long as I have a branch to graft atemoya to next spring I am good.
-
I am beginning to thinks some cherimoya may be graft compatible with pond apple, at least better than atemoya.
I did a thorough inspection of the trees and in addition to the Licia it appears boothe and white also appear to be growing. Inca red did not take.
I couldn't get 'Inca Red' to take either.
-
I am beginning to thinks some cherimoya may be graft compatible with pond apple, at least better than atemoya.
I did a thorough inspection of the trees and in addition to the Licia it appears boothe and white also appear to be growing. Inca red did not take.
I couldn't get 'Inca Red' to take either.
Do you have access to Licia?
Perhaps you can try to replicate my experiment. You can put the Inca Red on after Licia if it takes.
Some patience needed but you may get your plant.
I have assumed your root stock is pond apple too.
-
Quick update.
For more than 12 days over the last month or so we had enough rain to have 6 inches of water on the ground where one of the pond apples I grafted on to stood. The water flowed sometimes but was stagnant other times.
Two of the grafts that had pushed died back. Looked like they dried up. This did not occur on the same day (separated by about 2 weeks) and did not happen to several other grafts on the same tree.
I am not sure if something happened to the graft themselves during the heavy downpours or if the submerged roots stresses the tree (and somehow killed off a grafted branch, or perhaps the take was not properly healed and the wind and rains caused it to move or disconnect. but am curious if anyone can shed some light on what I am seeing.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/bS0Dcd/IMG_20180603_133800348.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bS0Dcd) (https://thumb.ibb.co/dWJYcd/IMG_20180603_133752376.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dWJYcd)
You can see the wilted dead branches.
There are many more on this same plant that are just fine. Two branches actually have flowers. I intend to remove them if the plant does not do that first.
-
The grafts shifting or vibrating during wind storms can certainly kill them.
Species that are adaptable to flooding still under-go stress by sudden change. Then they adjust, adapt.
When TREC tested Soursop trees to find how long they could be flooded, they put containerized Soursops in 5-gallon pails of stagnant water. The Soursops looked seriously stress, wilted, for a couple of weeks, but then they got over it and grew completely normally from then on. The experiment was terminated at the end of one year.
It wouldn't be surprising for grafts to be killed by such a period of stress. They can definitely also be killed by drought.
-
Thanks, Har, I am leaning towards the vibration. I had removed the tape and when I took a close look after cutting it off yesterday, it was clear that while there was good connected in some parts much of the union had not fused. It could have done better still tied together for a while.
I hope we don't get serious winds for a wile, I removed the tape on several of the grafts, I am hoping not too early.
-
My findings:
Cherimoya may indeed be a good interstock for bridging pond apple to atemoya.
The success rate is relatively low with White, Priestly and Licia taking and growing.
Unfortunately during the supper wet month of may, the pond apple sat in about 8 inches of water for almost a month. No problem for the plant itself but a couple of the grafts did not do so well.
Now as we approach the fall, the cherimoya is starting to drop leaves. The pond apple however is pushing growth. I don't know what having a part of a tree going dormant while another is in full growth means. I will see what happens if and when the cherimoya decides to grow again.
I will try the atemoya either during the fall sale or next spring. I however started some cherimoya from seed on which I will place some of my grafts. That way, the pond apple experiment will be a bonus if it works out in the long run.
If it is your only option, by all means try pond apple to cherimoya to atemoya. Otherwise, just get seeds of cherimoya and make yourself a few seedlings.