The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Berto on December 01, 2012, 04:22:39 PM
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I experimented growing nishikawa avocado here in southwest Florida. I have shared my observations with my friend Carlos, "The Avocado Man". Carlos is a fellow forum member and his site is http://www.myavocadotrees.com/ (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/) . Go to under evaluation page and highlight Hawaiian, nishikawa. I got my grafted tree from Tree House Nursery, few years ago, and at that time Steve Cucura was the operating manager for Tree House. Now, Steve has his own nursery called Fruitscapes, in Pine Island, near Cape Coral, Florida. Steve's business number is (239) 462-2341. The current owner of Tree House is Lianne Murray and her phone number is (239) 283-3688. I share this information in case anyone wants the buy a nishikawa tree. I don't even know if both nurseries have nishikawa for sale.
Here are some photos of my experiment!
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the "Nishikawa" family in Hawaii for developing such a beautiful avocado! "Mahalo", "Domo Arigato" "Obrigado".
(http://s13.postimage.org/ie4xifwsj/P6233397.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ie4xifwsj/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/ozvfntm39/P6233398.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ozvfntm39/)
(http://s14.postimage.org/dzjolborh/PB150024.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dzjolborh/)
(http://s9.postimage.org/g5dc49swr/PB190026.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/g5dc49swr/)
(http://s13.postimage.org/a2its1v43/PB260028.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/a2its1v43/)
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Good Idea Berto to start a new thread. I'll post here my comments from the Oro Negro thread:
Tonight we just had our first Nishikawa!!!!!!. The creamiest avocado I have tasted in a long time including Hass. Very flavorful as well, I don't know the percentage of oil that it reaches in Florida but you can spread it like butter. This was grown in the west coast of Florida and I don't think it had reached its full potential it had a bird or squirrel mark on it that cause some damage inside. It was a bit hard to peel but was worth the effort. My tree will hopefully bear a few fruit next year to see its development up close. If you like guacamole this will work for you. Oro Negro look out!!!!!!!!
I have another ready for tomorrow. This is actually promising and should show commercial growers that quality avocados can be grown in Florida. We need to look at this variety closely over the next few years. I have one top worked tree that got really big and I'm planning to top work two more in January. The Oro Negro project is going on a holding pattern.
Berto keep us posted to see if this fruit stays in the tree until January.
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Aloha Berto, ;D
Nishikawa sure is an handsome looking tree, with huge fruits 8) Your experiment came out mighty fine...the flesh has a very nice colour, too 8) Congrats on the harvest :)
Thanks for sharing :)
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Does it have a thick, hard skin? It looks like you might have to scoop out the flesh, rather than try to peel it.
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nice pics!
the tree and fruits look amazing!
I wonder how cold sensitive it is??
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I'm watching this thread with alot of interest as iNishikawa seems like a variety that might fit very nicely into my garden.
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Does it have a thick, hard skin? It looks like you might have to scoop out the flesh, rather than try to peel it.
just curious, would that truly have any bearing on the quality of this or any other cultivar? seems to me, or should I say in my opinion, in the scope of determining if a cultivar is good/worthy or not, skin thickness would be near or at the bottom...
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beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
maybe someone wants to ship a new variety of avocado, with high oil content...the thicker skin could be beneficial for some scenarios.
I agree though, as a home grower, I just want a tasty fruit...even if I have to take 5 min to prepare the fruit by peeling thick skin.
but this is just my opinion.
Does it have a thick, hard skin? It looks like you might have to scoop out the flesh, rather than try to peel it.
just curious, would that truly have any bearing on the quality of this or any other cultivar? seems to me, or should I say in my opinion, in the scope of determining if a cultivar is good/worthy or not, skin thickness would be near or at the bottom...
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beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
maybe someone wants to ship a new variety of avocado, with high oil content...the thicker skin could be beneficial for some scenarios.
I agree though, as a home grower, I just want a tasty fruit...even if I have to take 5 min to prepare the fruit by peeling thick skin.
but this is just my opinion.
Does it have a thick, hard skin? It looks like you might have to scoop out the flesh, rather than try to peel it.
just curious, would that truly have any bearing on the quality of this or any other cultivar? seems to me, or should I say in my opinion, in the scope of determining if a cultivar is good/worthy or not, skin thickness would be near or at the bottom...
As far as commercial growing goes, at least in SFla based on store availability, the number of cultivars that are commercially sold are few and not very good.
As far as "home grown" and/or shipping of this cultivar or any other, if shipping ripe ("soft" and ready to eat), it truly doesn't matter if thin or thick, you are asking for trouble. If shipping fresh picked and hard, that should also not make a difference whether thin or thick skinned.
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true.
but you know what I mean.
Maybe someone wants to make avocado bowls with rice and crab....but they need a nice tasting avocado with thicker skin that doesn't separate easily from the pulp.
see what I mean?
different applications for different qualities of fruit.
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Carlos,
I have one fruit left hanging from the tree. I gave most fruits away to family and friends! The racoons and the opossums also had their fair share.
Adam, the tree is planted in a wide open area and no damage from the last winters, at all. So far, so good!
The skin is very thick and peels off extremely easy. The photo of the fruit cut, one can see that there is a small gap between the skin and the flesh. The flesh is already separating from the skin.
As a mentioned before, we need more time to determine if nishikawa is a viable alternative for commercial cultivation. However for the home planting, I say yes it is a fantastic choice.
I compared the nishikawa taste with the choquette taking into consideration that choquette will taste a little better towards the end of the season. Nishikawa is a 10 on a scale 1 to 10 and choquete is a good 3 or 4 maximum.
I have two (2) other Hawaiian avocado experiments going and one (1) from Puerto Rico. I will share my observations with this forum sometime in the future.
I friend of mine here is SW Florida told me that the myth that one could not grow Hawaiian avocados in Florida was spread all over Florida. Apparently, that fallacy became a "truth". I wonder why that myth was spreaded! Any thoughts or comments???
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Carlos wrote that he had some difficulties peeling his fruit.
I ate my fruits very ripe and the skin peeled off extremely easy. Maybe it is a matter of fruit ripeness!!
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Berto and the others:
I have right now most of the Hawaiian main cultivars that grow in low elevations. It would be a matter of 2-3 years before we know more about them. So far observing the trees, that are quite different even among them, the only one that I think will not do well here is the Yamagata, the trees I have clearly seem unhappy here. The others are doing very well. I have bud wood to top work a tree in my grove for each variety. After I'm finish and I have confirmed graft takes in all I will probably sell the potted trees to recover some of my investment in this project and clear the space at home.
What I like about the Nishikawa is that it took 10-12 day from picking to be soft, ready to eat. That is a very good commercial quality. I agree with Berto that Nishikawa has a place in a residential environment for its excellent quality and so far decent production and disease resistance. We would know a lot more in the next two years. So far if I had one space for a late fruit this would be it.
On the issue of the skin. I say it is harder than the WI varieties we are familiar with, but the little extra effort is nothing compared to the quality it offers. No you don't have to scoop it. You can peel it and eat it in chunks.
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Is Berto and I the only ones growing Nishikawa?? There has to be other out there.
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Carlos,
I have one fruit left hanging from the tree. I gave most fruits away to family and friends! The racoons and the opossums also had their fair share.
Adam, the tree is planted in a wide open area and no damage from the last winters, at all. So far, so good!
The skin is very thick and peels off extremely easy. The photo of the fruit cut, one can see that there is a small gap between the skin and the flesh. The flesh is already separating from the skin.
As a mentioned before, we need more time to determine if nishikawa is a viable alternative for commercial cultivation. However for the home planting, I say yes it is a fantastic choice.
I compared the nishikawa taste with the choquette taking into consideration that choquette will taste a little better towards the end of the season. Nishikawa is a 10 on a scale 1 to 10 and choquete is a good 3 or 4 maximum.
I have two (2) other Hawaiian avocado experiments going and one (1) from Puerto Rico. I will share my observations with this forum sometime in the future.
I friend of mine here is SW Florida told me that the myth that one could not grow Hawaiian avocados in Florida was spread all over Florida. Apparently, that fallacy became a "truth". I wonder why that myth was spreaded! Any thoughts or comments???
Berto,funny you compare Choquette with Nishikawa. Choquette is one of the worst avocados i have planted. Nishikawa is very good but not in the top 5 of Hawaiian avocados. You guys are in for a big surprise if you try the really top tier ones. As for your question of why the rumor that Hawaiian avos won't do well in Florida, my guess is that it was said by someone who never tried to grow them. Carlos i would think Yamagata would do well also in Florida. How many trees of Yamagata did you try? You may just have a dud tree. You should retry as Yamagata is also a very good avo. Really our climates are quite similar. Biggest difference is your ocassional cold arctic blasts. I don't know how cold tolerant any of our varieties really are, so it's possible some of them could succumb during some of your really harsh winters.
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Oscar I have tried 3 Yamagatas. All from Top Tropicals. The first died. The second was planted in the ground in the grove about 18-20 months ago. It has not changed much. Looks like crap.
The one that is doing best is one in a 7 gal pot at home. Seem to be doing better, not great. I suspect the PH is less in the pot than in the grove. On the other hand the roots on top tropicals avocados look weak to me. Not sure what they use. I think they don't make them, they buy them.
My debate is that if at this point I top work a tree with Yamagata and see what happens. What do you think, does Yamagata grows well in low elevations?
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Oscar I have tried 3 Yamagatas. All from Top Tropicals. The first died. The second was planted in the ground in the grove about 18-20 months ago. It has not changed much. Looks like crap.
The one that is doing best is one in a 7 gal pot at home. Seem to be doing better, not great. I suspect the PH is less in the pot than in the grove. On the other hand the roots on top tropicals avocados look weak to me. Not sure what they use. I think they don't make them, they buy them.
My debate is that if at this point I top work a tree with Yamagata and see what happens. What do you think, does Yamagata grows well in low elevations?
Yamagata grows well right at sea level in Hawaii. How's that for low elevation? You should definitely try again with some scion wood from another source. I think TT gets a lot of their plants from Plant it Hawaii, and often they don't make the trip over very well. Yamagata is a top tier avo so don't give up so fast.
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Oscar I have tried 3 Yamagatas. All from Top Tropicals. The first died. The second was planted in the ground in the grove about 18-20 months ago. It has not changed much. Looks like crap.
The one that is doing best is one in a 7 gal pot at home. Seem to be doing better, not great. I suspect the PH is less in the pot than in the grove. On the other hand the roots on top tropicals avocados look weak to me. Not sure what they use. I think they don't make them, they buy them.
My debate is that if at this point I top work a tree with Yamagata and see what happens. What do you think, does Yamagata grows well in low elevations?
That could be the problem right there...
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Oscar,
Choquette was the one I had at the time. In my opinion, the best fruits are the ones in your hands, ready to be savored!
Here in Florida, some people like Choquette very much. However, when you get a nice Nishikawa next to it, good bye Choquette and Aloha! Nishikawa!
I am looking forward to report about some of the best Hawaiian avocadoes there is. Kahaluu is growing very well and I hope it will fruit well. Fujikawa is growing extremely slow.
I decided to reobserve the nishikawa peeling characteristic and flesh firmness!
Few minutes ago, a had a nice nishikawa snack! Please take a look at the photos below! Pictures are much better than words!
(http://s9.postimage.org/58pfcd5gr/PC020041.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/58pfcd5gr/)
(http://s9.postimage.org/84gr7tujv/PC020042.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/84gr7tujv/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/64umzu59z/PC020043.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/64umzu59z/)
(http://s9.postimage.org/y7sq19wq3/PC020044.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y7sq19wq3/)
(http://s10.postimage.org/hg2axwg91/PC020036.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hg2axwg91/)
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Yeah, my guess is that Carlos ate his Nishikawa under ripe because they peel just fine. I personally never peel avos, i scoop them out with a spoon, or when eating in the orchard just nick a line with a fingernail, twist open, and then squeeze the inside out.
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Yeah, my guess is that Carlos ate his Nishikawa under ripe because they peel just fine. I personally never peel avos, i scoop them out with a spoon, or when eating in the orchard just nick a line with a fingernail, twist open, and then squeeze the inside out.
No I think is was ready is was creamy and soft, as a matter of fact I think I should have eaten it the day before. I have one ready for tonight will see how it goes.
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This Nishikawa looks like a must have! I guess this cultivar and the other top hawaiian ones are west-indian types, right?
Oscar, are you selling avo budwood? ::)
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Personally, no, I don't care if it's easy to peel or not. I only care about how it tastes. ;D
Oscar, I hope you will recommend to Carlos all the best Hawaiian avocados that you think he should try growing here.
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This Nishikawa looks like a must have! I guess this cultivar and the other top hawaiian ones are west-indian types, right?
Oscar, are you selling avo budwood? ::)
Definitely not west Indian types. These W. Indians are very rare in Hawaii and very popular in Florida and Caribbean. The W. Indians are the long necked so called watery types. Yes i sell budwood but don't have Nishikawa in my collection.
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Personally, no, I don't care if it's easy to peel or not. I only care about how it tastes. ;D
Oscar, I hope you will recommend to Carlos all the best Hawaiian avocados that you think he should try growing here.
I posted this several times before, but here goes again. In a blind taste test chefs in Hawaii picked;
#1 Kahaluu
#2 Malama
#3 Linda
I think consumers picked Yamagata as #1. I posted links to these taste tests before.
Some others ones i really like are Fujikawa, Green Gold. Sharwil (really an Australian avo, but most popularly sold commercial type in Hawaii), Ota, and Semil #34.
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You rate Linda highly?
Good to know as I have seen the plants very rarely offered here. I have seen the quite large fruits at one fruit stall here, but have baulked at the price, when I can get a bucket of Reeds for about the same as one Linda, so have not tried them as yet...
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You rate Linda highly?
Good to know as I have seen the plants very rarely offered here. I have seen the quite large fruits at one fruit stall here, but have baulked at the price, when I can get a bucket of Reeds for about the same as one Linda, so have not tried them as yet...
Those were the chef taste test ratings, not mine. Yes i also would rate the Linda highly, not #3 but maybe in top 20 available here. Keep in mind that Linda is not a Hawaiian selection. I think it's originally from California. Also keep in mind that the chef taste test was only from a small pool of cultivars, so there are many other good ones here they didn't taste or rate.
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Finally my second Nishikawa was ready. Fortunately it was my birthday yesterday and I had lots of family home. So I was able to do a tasting.
One of my daughters that likes avocados said it was the best avocado ever, so did her husband. My 15 year old grandson on that side of the family is an authority "eating" avocados. He can eat a two pounder all by himself, he said it was excellent.
The other daughter, they don't eat anything with fat in it. Said she prefers the regular less intense flavor fruit.
My own opinion is that is was creamy, tasty. One of my son-in-law said it reminded him of egg salad. To some extend I can see mashing the avocado, adding the ingredients of egg salad and eating it in a sandwich.
Like every thing is a matter of taste, some will like it, others will prefer what they are familiar with. I will be incline to say that if you like avocados you will like the Nishikawa.
On the issue of peeling: This was easy to peel is just that the skin is thicker than what we are familiar with. As result these are ready to eat I think just when they begin to get soft to the touch.
These are the Hawaiian avocados I'm experimenting with: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/hawaiian.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/hawaiian.html)
By The beginning of next year I will have a top worked tree with each of these varieties. The Nishikawa is ahead of the game because I top worked it about 10 months ago and the San Miguel was top worked in the summer and is growing nicely. The rest will be done as the bud wood from my potted trees will be ready
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Carlos,
Happy Birthday, Feliz Cumpleanos! Feliz Aniversario!
Excellent! I am glad to read your comments! Thank you.
Just I small note. Some of us are "experimenting" with Hawaiian avocados. The result of those experiments will vary from place to place. A variety may do better in Florida than in Hawaii or it may not adapt to ones location in Florida, at all.
Here in SW Florida, Nishikawa fruits were much bigger than in Hawaii. There are too many variables that will determine the outcome of the fruit characteristics, including size, fat content, and so on.
Here is an interesting link about some Hawaiian varieties.
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf (http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf)
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I'm starting to think that instead of Miguel and Oro Negro, I should have planted Day (or Dupuis) and Nishikawa. My third avo tree is Florida Hass. :-\ Oh well, I can always replace any of 'em! :)
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John,
You can always topwork an avocado tree and graft a variety of your choice.
I have tasted Florida Hass, and with all respect for Florida Hass, Nishikawa is a much better fruit, in my opinion.
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John,
You can always topwork an avocado tree and graft a variety of your choice.
I have tasted Florida Hass, and with all respect for Florida Hass, Nishikawa is a much better fruit, in my opinion.
Now you're really making me feel bad. :'(
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Don't feel bad. Fl Hass is a summer fruit, Nishikawa is late season. The Miquel.....................another story, but is a bit earlier than FL Hass but mine hang in the tree for a while, Late summer. If you are going to top work anything top work the Miguel with Dupuis or Simonds.
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Don't feel bad. Fl Hass is a summer fruit, Nishikawa is late season. The Miquel.....................another story, but is a bit earlier than FL Hass but mine hang in the tree for a while, Late summer. If you are going to top work anything top work the Miguel with Dupuis or Simonds.
Damn that Pine Island Nursery! Why did they give Miguel a 5? >:( I guess I should wait a few years and try the fruit. It might taste better grown here in my yard in Deerfield Beach than down in Carlos's grove in Homestead.
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Is Berto and I the only ones growing Nishikawa?? There has to be other out there.
I have a three gallon I bought from top trop a few months ago but it will not go in the ground until feb or so. I hope it handles he heat and trade winds ok. Dave
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Don't feel bad. Fl Hass is a summer fruit, Nishikawa is late season. The Miquel.....................another story, but is a bit earlier than FL Hass but mine hang in the tree for a while, Late summer. If you are going to top work anything top work the Miguel with Dupuis or Simonds.
Florida Hass is a summer fruit? The fruit on the trees around here are nowhere near ready in summer time. There is also a local farmer's market that is selling both Cali Hass AND Florida Hass (Florida grown) right now.
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I'm just hoping the Miguel is earlier than the Florida Hass and the Oro Negro is late. I think that's the case.
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Is Berto and I the only ones growing Nishikawa?? There has to be other out there.
I bought about a 4 gallon and put it in the ground 4 or 5 months ago. It has only put out new growth once, but looks happy and healthy. I would love to get fruit next summer but that may be too optimistic.
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I'm just hoping the Miguel is earlier than the Florida Hass and the Oro Negro is late. I think that's the case.
Not sure how FL Hass would work in your area. In Miami someone was picking in September http://www.myavocadotrees.com/tims-review-of-florida-hass.html]see this report.[url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/tims-review-of-florida-hass.html (http://see this report.[url) [/url]
Yes Miquel should be earlier is is a Mid summer fruit.
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I just bought a 3 gal size Nishikawa tree, think I'll keep it in the pot for a while then graft it onto my soon to be top-worked Russell tree.
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Good idea I have two Russell that I may do the same. Is you Nishikawa big enough to get 4-5 pcs pf bud wood?
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Good idea I have two Russell that I may do the same. Is you Nishikawa big enough to get 4-5 pcs pf bud wood?
I don't know yet. I threw the dice and ordered one from Top Tropicals...If it is large enough your welcome to graft wood.
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SW RancherI have a good supply my tree is large, Thanks.
I think you mentioned that you were going to top work your Russell. I like to do 4-5 grafts per tree. If you need some send me a PM.
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SW RancherI have a good supply my tree is large, Thanks.
I think you mentioned that you were going to top work your Russell. I like to do 4-5 grafts per tree. If you need some send me a PM.
Thanks Carlos, I appreciate the offer.
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Good idea I have two Russell that I may do the same. Is you Nishikawa big enough to get 4-5 pcs pf bud wood?
I don't know yet. I threw the dice and ordered one from Top Tropicals...If it is large enough your welcome to graft wood.
I am thinking about grabbing one from there too. Great price, just a little nervous about getting a true nishikawa.
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Ate my first Nishikawa today. Very rich and creamy. I only have room for one avocado and this will probably be it. The flavor is very rich and will make a great 'meaty' type of fruit. Just a little salt and lime was all I added...
(http://s1.postimage.org/56umjda0b/069.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/56umjda0b/)
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Mike do you have more fruit hanging on the tree? How old is your tree?
It is sure looking like a new great cultivar for So Florida
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Mike,
After eating nishikawas I ate a choquette! Nishikawa beats choquette ten (10) to one (1). Before it was 10 to 3 or 4, now is 10 to 1. I will bet that next year my tree will hold fruits until January. I may plant another nishikawa soon. I am thinking about topworking my choquette in the future. Maybe I will topwork it with a nishikawa, kahaluu, or another great hawaiian avocado. I hope kahaluu and fujikawa will perform as well as nishikawa here in south Florida. Hawaiian avocadoes are really exceptional fruits!!! Aloha and mahalo!
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Mike
nice looking avocado....I would love to grow this variety here.
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I brought a grafted Nishikawa back from Hawaii a few years ago, it has grown real slow. I don't know what root stock "Frankies" uses, but the tree has handled our cold here, just real slow grower. I think the Malama is one of the top tasting.
Mark in San Diego
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Mark,
Thank you for the comment! I have a fujikawa that came from Hawaii and the tree is growing at a "snail pace". I noticed that it has two grafts and I was wondering why it has an interstock. Is it to increase disease resistance, or is it to keep the tree small??? Does your tree also have an interstock? I am thinking about getting a fujikawa budwood and graft it onto a choquette rootstock. My guess is that it will grow much faster than the current tree I have.
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I gave Mike the fruit. It is from a tree that is about 8 feet or so, in a 100 gal pot. It had 8-10 fruit this year and some lost in the spring & summer wind storms.
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Mark and Berto I think some Hawaiians grow slow in colder areas. I have a Malama grafted 10 months ago and hardly grew to 15 inches very thin branches.
The Muragishe is doing much better as well as the San Miquel. The Yamagata is ok but I dont think it likes it here but i will top work a tree on Oscar suggestion. I m very encouraged with these avocados and seem to have a future in So Florida for those who like more oily avocados.
After I top work trees soon with the potted plants I plant to graft some 3 gal on Waldin seedlings with the bud wood I have left.
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Mike do you have more fruit hanging on the tree? How old is your tree?
It is sure looking like a new great cultivar for So Florida
I think a lot of the Hawaiian cultivars will do well in Florida, not just Nishikawa. Been trying to get folks in Florida to plant them for many years. Nishikawa is not even that great by Hawaiian standards. Malama is rated number 2, and Kahaluu is rated number 1 in chef taste tests. In public opinion taste tests Yamagata was rated number 1. Don't think Nishikawa was even included in those taste tests.
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I think friday is the full moon. I will be top working a tree with Yamagata.
Is Malama a slow grower or a small tree?
I grafted a malama on mexicola two slow growers in here to see if the tree keeps small in our area. Mexicola grows. 25% of west indies varieties here so I hope the combination keeps the tree small for yards with limited space.
I wonder if anyone has experience with mexicola in So Fl?
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I think friday is the full moon. I will be top working a tree with Yamagata.
Is Malama a slow grower or a small tree?
I grafted a malama on mexicola two slow growers in here to see if the tree keeps small in our area. Mexicola grows. 25% of west indies varieties here so I hope the combination keeps the tree small for yards with limited space.
I wonder if anyone has experience with mexicola in So Fl?
Malama is neither small nor a slow grower here.
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Interesting! Hawaiian experiments!
http://www.hawaiifruit.net/Avocado.pdf (http://www.hawaiifruit.net/Avocado.pdf)
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Nice report!
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf (http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf)
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I think friday is the full moon. I will be top working a tree with Yamagata.
Is Malama a slow grower or a small tree?
I grafted a malama on mexicola two slow growers in here to see if the tree keeps small in our area. Mexicola grows. 25% of west indies varieties here so I hope the combination keeps the tree small for yards with limited space.
I wonder if anyone has experience with mexicola in So Fl?
Malama is neither small nor a slow grower here.
I find that for some plants a few degrees could make a diference
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I think friday is the full moon. I will be top working a tree with Yamagata.
Is Malama a slow grower or a small tree?
I grafted a malama on mexicola two slow growers in here to see if the tree keeps small in our area. Mexicola grows. 25% of west indies varieties here so I hope the combination keeps the tree small for yards with limited space.
I wonder if anyone has experience with mexicola in So Fl?
Both in winter and in summer Miami has higher average temperatures than Hilo. That is true for both daytime and nightime temperatures. So your location believe it or not is more "tropical" in that sense. Only problem are sudden arctic blasts where you live in winter.
Malama is neither small nor a slow grower here.
I find that for some plants a few degrees could make a diference
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@Carlos
The full moon was last week. http://www.moonphases.info/full_moon_calendar_dates.html (http://www.moonphases.info/full_moon_calendar_dates.html) >>>>>> Dec 28 2012
If you want to graft with full moon indications then you do so while the moon is waxing (increasing). It starts waxing ~14 days after the full moon. So last full moon was Dec 28. Moon starts increasing on January 11th 2013 which means water and activity rising so better time to graft. I have tried this moon phase stuff but cannot give you accurate results
Waning= moon is decreasing
Many cultures have had moon based calendars so there is probably something to it, factoring moon phases into agriculture when you want new growth on something you just did. Meaning planting, sprouting and grafting. Being moon calculated the Chinese New Year shifts every year and same for Jewish holidays.... Because it does not synchronize with our European derived calendar that is a solar (sun) calendar
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You are right Zands. I looked at my moon app and saw friday was a new moon and wrote full.
To me this is not scientific, I have the general impression that grafts take better on new or full moon. Almost as important our broadcast calls for several days in the 80's so I think I will do it today.
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You are right Zands. I looked at my moon app and saw friday was a new moon and wrote full.
To me this is not scientific, I have the general impression that grafts take better on new or full moon. Almost as important our broadcast calls for several days in the 80's so I think I will do it today.
Better to think in terms of waxing and waning. New plant growth is a better bet during the ~14 days of an increasing (waxing) moon. This ~14 day period starts after the new moon. Maybe save a few grafts for this ~14 day period and compare.
You have ~14 days. Not one day. IIRC the middle of those 14 days is when the moon's influence is the strongest and best time to plant seed, sprout seed and graft. It is like baseball when the batter steps into a pitch
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Zands if I get you correctly, the next new moon is January 14, 2013. The next 14 days will put you to January 28, with the best day being January 21, 2013?
I did dome grafting on December 18 Waxing moon and they are already pushing out like crazy.
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Zands if I get you correctly, the next new moon is January 14, 2013. The next 14 days will put you to January 28, with the best day being January 21, 2013?
I did dome grafting on December 18 Waxing moon and they are already pushing out like crazy.
Estimado Carlos, you have more than one day. Let us say the four days surrounding January 21. The idea is increasing light and tidal pull on all water and all plant juices from the moon. This starts right after the new moon which is empty and non-visible.
http://www.plantea.com/planting-moon-phases.htm (http://www.plantea.com/planting-moon-phases.htm)
Increasing Light -- New moon to full moon
Examples of garden chores to do by the light of the moon:
(NOTE: These are general guidelines. I highly recommend referring to Ed Hume's Planting Guide for specific planting tasks):
Repot and groom houseplants
Sow seeds of plants that grow above ground (for helpful tips on starting your own seeds, click here.)
Fertilize
Graft fruit trees
Plant evergreen and deciduous trees
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Carlos thank you for the recommendation on the Nishikawa Avocado. I received it today via fedex from Top Tropicals. The Avocado looks good its about six foot tall, and the leaves are all green except for a couple at the top which have some edges which have a little brown on them. This is the first avocado i add to my land, I live in Davie on a acre. My idea is to pot this one in a large pot. any recommendations on what soil mixture i should make?
I am really interested in planting more varieties of Avocado. I was going to plant Florida Hass or Day but what do you recommend i plant next?
I love the taste of Hass avocado but from what i understand the Florida variety is not as good. maybe ill try to get my hands on more hawaiian varieties.
Thank you for all the information! i look forward to keep you guys updated with pics and details
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I have searched for sources of Kahaluu , Linda and Malama but have not found any...
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Day is probably the best tasting early season avocado in Florida. Forget the FL Hass, its not that good. Other quality avocado you should consider are Lula, Hall, Ore Negro, and if you want to try something like a Hass, maybe try the Fuerte as its not exactly like THE Hass but it is the parent of the Hass.
While there are supposedly some other great Hawaiian cultivars, I have not yet tasted them, do not know for sure how they will fare in Florida, and they are not readily availqble in Florida.
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I think im going to buy a 25 gallon Day avocado from www.BrookstropicalNursery.com (http://www.BrookstropicalNursery.com) Nice people i was talking to about avocados before christmas but couldnt order due to unexpected trip to Brazil. they also deliver to davie which is a plus!!! these are the ones they offer for sale. Bernecker, Brogdon, Catalina, Choquette, Day, Donnie, Florida Haas, Hall,
Lula, Marcus Pumpkin, Monroe, Pollack, Russell, Simmonds, Winter Mexican
Im still on the hunt for some Kahaluu, Malama Top tropicals just sent me a email that they have Yamagata instock so i ordered and its on its way!
thanks for the tips on the Day avocado Btooks tropical also recommended the same as the best in Florida.
Day is probably the best tasting early season avocado in Florida. Forget the FL Hass, its not that good. Other quality avocado you should consider are Lula, Hall, Ore Negro, and if you want to try something like a Hass, maybe try the Fuerte as its not exactly like THE Hass but it is the parent of the Hass.
While there are supposedly some other great Hawaiian cultivars, I have not yet tasted them, do not know for sure how they will fare in Florida, and they are not readily availqble in Florida.
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You probably spoke to my wife Zena, although I really do like the flavor of the Day, I eat them with a spoon plain.. I had some really good Simmonds this past year, Catalina too! I would not pick a "best cultivar" of anything even if waterboarded unless I ate the fruit with the person and we came to agreement! I have grafted several Kahaluu Avos from Oscar (Fruit Lovers), most of which have been sold unfortunately. I havent grown one to fruit though so I cant say they will be the same quality as they are reported to be in Hawaii. Now that you have found this forum I think you will find a lot more sources available to you locally to feed this crazy habit! You will find a lot of really good people here! I would recommend joining the Broward Rare Fruit Council as a start!!
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You probably spoke to my wife Zena, although I really do like the flavor of the Day, I eat them with a spoon plain.. I had some really good Simmonds this past year, Catalina too! I would not pick a "best cultivar" of anything even if waterboarded unless I ate the fruit with the person and we came to agreement! I have grafted several Kahaluu Avos from Oscar (Fruit Lovers), most of which have been sold unfortunately. I havent grown one to fruit though so I cant say they will be the same quality as they are reported to be in Hawaii. Now that you have found this forum I think you will find a lot more sources available to you locally to feed this crazy habit! You will find a lot of really good people here! I would recommend joining the Broward Rare Fruit Council as a start!!
how cool is that Small world isnt it!. Yea i spoke to your wife regarding the avocados. I am waiting for my friend to confirm if hes going to be ordering one with me so we can have them both brought down at the same time. ill let you know probably tomorrow. if your willing to part with a grafted kahaluu if you have any left ill take it off your hands also along with the 25 gal day im going to buy. your right she didnt say it was the best but did say you liked it alot! i want a atemoya also .. ill call you tomorrow to disscuss.
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Marcovgv,
I may be able to locate you a small kahaluu. Please send me a private email. bertonsilva@hotmail.com
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I would suggest making request of Hawaiian avos to Top Tropicals. I know they get large pallets shipments of plants from Plant it Hawaii here on Big Island.
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I would suggest making request of Hawaiian avos to Top Tropicals. I know they get large pallets shipments of plants from Plant it Hawaii here on Big Island.
That is good to know. Makes me feel better about the authenticity of the nishikawa that I recently bought from them.
So far for Hawaiian avo's I have a Kahaluu, nishikawa, and yamagata. My grafts failed with malama so I will give that another try soon.
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It is 2 years since the Nishikawa comments posted here and I'd like to add my 2 cents. I last picked one of my Nish's the end of November. My tree was in the ground for 3 years in November. (my Yamagata has never blossomed but is about 20 feet tall after being in the ground for 3 years. It is partially shaded and a spectacular specimen)
My Dec Nish weighed 23 ozs and was unmarked from animal or disease. It took 2 weeks to ripen. I had left for a cruise and took it with me and it ripened
lightly on the 3rd day. The one I picked the month before weighed 23 ozs too. The Oct one had a penny sized brown spot when it ripened that was a tiny bit on the flesh by that spot. This Dec one was perfect.
We opened it with another couple we were with. We all agreed it was a very special fruit. I personally am not interested in any avocado I have ever tasted but the Nish was different and I could eat one every day with ease. I am now pulling any tree citrus or mango that underperforms in growth ot taste or other quality and replacing them with Nishikawa. I can't wait to have enough to share with friends and family. Any avocado that is sub par will be topped and the Nishikawa will be grafted if it's not needed to eat at a specific time period.
It is Dec 29th 2014 and I still have 4 on the tree and they all look about 23 ozs. I am picking each one 6 weeks apart to see how long they stay on and how far out they may ripen???? If I still have a good one on in April it would be the holy grail!!!!!!!!! But unlikely.
Does anybody who is a year or 2 ahead of me in S Florida have a strong opinion from their own experience when they think the optimal time to pick the Nish is?
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You have a privilege location to still have Nish's around. My older tree dropped all fruit by early November. Nish flavor is similar to Catalina and Oro Negro. Try those to see how they compare to your Nish's.
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Zands if I get you correctly, the next new moon is January 14, 2013. The next 14 days will put you to January 28, with the best day being January 21, 2013?
I did dome grafting on December 18 Waxing moon and they are already pushing out like crazy.
Estimado Carlos, you have more than one day. Let us say the four days surrounding January 21. The idea is increasing light and tidal pull on all water and all plant juices from the moon. This starts right after the new moon which is empty and non-visible.
http://www.plantea.com/planting-moon-phases.htm (http://www.plantea.com/planting-moon-phases.htm)
Increasing Light -- New moon to full moon
Examples of garden chores to do by the light of the moon:
(NOTE: These are general guidelines. I highly recommend referring to Ed Hume's Planting Guide for specific planting tasks):
Repot and groom houseplants
Sow seeds of plants that grow above ground (for helpful tips on starting your own seeds, click here.)
Fertilize
Graft fruit trees
Plant evergreen and deciduous trees
Zands, those 'tidal' influences happen every single day, 365 days a year - as the Earth rotates once per 24 hours, under the moon above, so to speak. So the plant juices and such are going to feel daily tidal pulls similar to the oceans.
The phases have to do with where the moon is in its orbit around the Earth. If it's on the other side of Earth from the sun then we see it 'full'. If it's off to the side - ahead or behind us - we get to see 'half' of it. If it's on the sun side of us then the face of the moon to us is dark.
It is true though that the COMBINED effects of tidal pull with moon brightness is at a maximum once a month. And, as you say, there are several days (nights) bracketing full moon when the moonlight is close to'full'.
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I have a Kahaluu planted out that's doing very well. Its getting ready to bloom. Has anyone had any luck fruiting this one in Florida yet??
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Mine flowered last year but did not set any fruit. Does not seem to be building flower buds so far.
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Does any of our East-Coast Nursery's sell this type of Avocado tree ? would like a 3 Gal ;)..
Ed
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Ask Mike Bender he may have some
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Thank You Carlos !
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I had a friend of mine stop by Bender's Place yesterday & Picked Up A 1 Gal Nishikawa ;), He will deliver it to me on Monday, Cant wait to see this specimen ..
Ed
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I have a Kahaluu planted out that's doing very well. Its getting ready to bloom. Has anyone had any luck fruiting this one in Florida yet??
Patrick, how is your kahaluu doing atm?
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any updates from FL growers on Nishikawa?
I keep going back and forth about whether this tree has a spot in my yard or if I should just plant it at work.
Maybe I will plant the Wilson Popenoe at work instead.
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Mine is Doing great I'll post a pic tomorow, got it from Mike B , it's a great looking plant !
Ed.
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Is Berto and I the only ones growing Nishikawa?? There has to be other out there.
Carlos, I have 1 growing over on the Island at the mango grove. I got mine the same place as Berto got his. Matter a fact, Berto was the one who told me where to get one. :)
Slow growing in the grove.
Joe.
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we have them at echo in north fort myers
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we have them at echo in north fort myers
Do you work at Echo? How has production been for you on the West Coast?
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we have them in 3 gallon pots for sale. i don't think we have any nishikawa in the ground here but we do have a good variety of avocados planted out. we have been getting plenty of fruit for the market but I'm not sure how this years harvest compares to previous years.
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Is Berto and I the only ones growing Nishikawa?? There has to be other out there.
Carlos, I have 1 growing over on the Island at the mango grove. I got mine the same place as Berto got his. Matter a fact, Berto was the one who told me where to get one. :)
Slow growing in the grove.
Joe.
They are slow when small, as the grow they get very very wide and starts getting bigger quickly
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I know this is an old post but i wanted to add that i got 2 of these a few years ago and really love them . They do start slow but when they take hold they spread way out , look funny . But the avocados are great , not like anything else i have ever had . Now if i can get my Oro Negro to produce something after 5 years that would be great . Thanks to all of you guys for the good info
mike in Naples
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Nishikawa is a great and tasty avocado. Here in my place, it is an alternate bearer. This year, I have only a few fruits hanging.
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I am hoping it does well in CA, Ive got 3 grafted nishikawa trees. Going plant at least one of them soon. Anyone growing one in CA?
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I have one nishikawa that is still small(4ft) but is doing really well, the fruit look great. I cant wait.
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I made about 40 of them off of my aunt's tree. That tree holds fruit for months, finishing in April. Gonna start planting them in a friend's orchard soon. It does have a weird growth habit, kind of lanky and gangly.
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I have 1 graft in the ground on one of the rootstock I got from you. I grafted on a lower branch which luckily provided it some shade during the heat wave. It’s now reaching out beyond the shade. I also have kahaluu (large and inground) , Yamagata (small but in ground) and murashige graft that just started pushing.
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Berto ,
Saw that you are in SW FL . I'm In Naples . I got 3 Nish's on one tree only . none on the other . When do you pick yours ? i previously did end on Nov. mine were smaller than the 23oz others report . Some people say they pick in Jan. or later . Since we live in the same area wondering when you pick.
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You probably spoke to my wife Zena, although I really do like the flavor of the Day, I eat them with a spoon plain.. I had some really good Simmonds this past year, Catalina too! I would not pick a "best cultivar" of anything even if waterboarded unless I ate the fruit with the person and we came to agreement! I have grafted several Kahaluu Avos from Oscar (Fruit Lovers), most of which have been sold unfortunately. I havent grown one to fruit though so I cant say they will be the same quality as they are reported to be in Hawaii. Now that you have found this forum I think you will find a lot more sources available to you locally to feed this crazy habit! You will find a lot of really good people here! I would recommend joining the Broward Rare Fruit Council as a start!!
[/quote
Patrick, I have a Kahaluu growing on Merritt island at the mango grove. I believe she is going to bloom this year. Very small rounded tree about 6' tall and 6'round. Very full tree. I'll take some pictures when she blooms.
Joe.
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I don't have any nishikawa but Japanese are smart plant breeders so it must be worth planting. Can someone see how long nishikawa avocado has been around? My guess is 25-30 years so it has a track record that is not well known on the internet. Spaugh was correct in tripling down on his nishi plantings to see what pans out. Not all fruit trees of a given variety are equal. Some are strong and some are weak. I see this on my "estate"
I planted three lula and only one is really very much flourishing/ I bought it in Home Depot in Sunrise FL in 15 gallon...$84 but it was worth it. Avocado trees are more finicky than mango by a long shot/ Have a brogdan too. No nishikawa/
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I don't have any nishikawa but Japanese are smart plant breeders so it must be worth planting. Can someone see how long nishikawa avocado has been around? My guess is 25-30 years so it has a track record that is not well known on the internet. Spaugh was correct in tripling down on his nishi plantings to see what pans out. Not all fruit trees of a given variety are equal. Some are strong and some are weak. I see this on my "estate"
I planted three lula and only one is really very much flourishing/ I bought it in Home Depot in Sunrise FL in 15 gallon...$84 but it was worth it. Avocado trees are more finicky than mango by a long shot/ Have a brogdan too. No nishikawa/
I only planted 1 nishikawa. The other 2 went to friends' houses. Members GregA and Durbandude got the other 2 trees. Running out of space to be planting triplets of experimental types.
Will let you guys know how it goes. Ive got a lot of Hawaiian types planted. Kahaluu, Nishikawa, OTA all seem faily happy. Not sure what the lineage is on these but Guatemalan avo trees seem to do best here.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/1gZ21N3s/avo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gZ21N3s)
Decided to wait a little longer to pick them this time . Was thinking 1 of 3 pick 12/15 and then space the rest out about 2 weeks . Mother nature had a different plan , checked the tree today and 2 had fallen . The first was smaller 14oz and had a bad bruise on the outside , it was also soft . The next one was bigger 18oz and was still hard . So i cut the small ripe one open hoping it was ok and this is what i got ! You know when you have to wait a full year to have these and you only get 3 ... i'm excited . Added some salt and a little hot sauce , Yahoo. I love the taste of these things . What a lunch .Dont know when if fell so dont know how long it took to ripen .
Both on my Nish's started growing wild after the hurricane , they really have matured in the last 9 months, so i'm hoping to get a lot more fruits next time . Last year had a lot of pee's but most fell off (fertilized more this year ). Also either animals were getting some or gardeners were taking a few, so this year i tied mesh bags around them and all survived . Thanks everyone for your help .
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I don't have any nishikawa but Japanese are smart plant breeders so it must be worth planting. Can someone see how long nishikawa avocado has been around? My guess is 25-30 years so it has a track record that is not well known on the internet. Spaugh was correct in tripling down on his nishi plantings to see what pans out. Not all fruit trees of a given variety are equal. Some are strong and some are weak. I see this on my "estate"
I planted three lula and only one is really very much flourishing/ I bought it in Home Depot in Sunrise FL in 15 gallon...$84 but it was worth it. Avocado trees are more finicky than mango by a long shot/ Have a brogdan too. No nishikawa/
Wasn't really bred by professional plant breeders, but by Kona coffee farmers. During beginning of the century most of the farmers here were Japanese. They selected choice types from hundreds of seedlings planted. That is why most of the old Hawaii avocado cultivars have Japanese names.
BTW, in this pamphlet from Hawaii tropical agriculture college, the Nishikawa, from possible ratings of excellent, very good, and good, is only given a good rating:
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-1.pdf (https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-1.pdf)
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I don't have any nishikawa but Japanese are smart plant breeders so it must be worth planting. Can someone see how long nishikawa avocado has been around? My guess is 25-30 years so it has a track record that is not well known on the internet. Spaugh was correct in tripling down on his nishi plantings to see what pans out. Not all fruit trees of a given variety are equal. Some are strong and some are weak. I see this on my "estate"
I planted three lula and only one is really very much flourishing/ I bought it in Home Depot in Sunrise FL in 15 gallon...$84 but it was worth it. Avocado trees are more finicky than mango by a long shot/ Have a brogdan too. No nishikawa/
Wasn't really bred by professional plant breeders, but by Kona coffee farmers. During beginning of the century most of the farmers here were Japanese. They selected choice types from hundreds of seedlings planted. That is why most of the old Hawaii avocado cultivars have Japanese names.
BTW, in this pamphlet from Hawaii tropical agriculture college, the Nishikawa, from possible ratings of excellent, very good, and good, is only given a good rating:
https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-1.pdf (https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-1.pdf)
Many thanks for your accounting on the Nishikawa and its history in Hawaii.
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Wow if a Nish is only considered good i cant wait to taste one that is considered great . How does someone go about buying some of these exotic Avocados to taste ?
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Wow if a Nish is only considered good i cant wait to taste one that is considered great . How does someone go about buying some of these exotic Avocados to taste ?
You're probably not going to get to taste them unless you grow them yourself. Hawaii is only allowed to export Sharwil, and then to only selected states that don't grow their own avocados.