Author Topic: Location, location.......  (Read 12169 times)

Tropicalnut

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Location, location.......
« on: May 29, 2015, 09:46:50 AM »
Hello Floridians! :D
If I was to move to FL when I retire, what area of FL will be the better one to start growing tropical fruit. I am thinking a small house with an acre lot to keep me busy.
I currently live in AZ, but have been to FL about 5 times and can't begin to think where to look. I have only been in Miami, Fort Myers, Sanibel Island, FL keys, FL City and Homestead FL. Mostly to visit botanical gardens and enjoy the beach.
I will love for the locals to give me their input so on my next trip I can start exploring my options. Thanks in advance!

bsbullie

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 09:53:02 AM »
Hello Floridians! :D
If I was to move to FL when I retire, what area of FL will be the better one to start growing tropical fruit. I am thinking a small house with an acre lot to keep me busy.
I currently live in AZ, but have been to FL about 5 times and can't begin to think where to look. I have only been in Miami, Fort Myers, Sanibel Island, FL keys, FL City and Homestead FL. Mostly to visit botanical gardens and enjoy the beach.
I will love for the locals to give me their input so on my next trip I can start exploring my options. Thanks in advance!

Finding a house on an acre in a "prime" tropical fruit growing area will be tough, and costly.  You will most likely have to make some sacrifices.  SE Florida. Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade Counties as well as selected West Coast areas.  Bokeelia would be the prime location on the West Coast of Florida.  Ultimately, a lot will come down to what you are looking for and what the prioities are with respect to home, location, land for growing (composition of soil and yearly climate).
- Rob

From the sea

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 10:11:30 AM »
And $$$$$$$

Tropicaliste

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 10:30:12 AM »
This is a good question. I was wondering the same thing. I'm considering a move, and this topic is a good place for advice :)

Tropheus76

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 10:36:56 AM »
Welcome to the land of tract housing and little lots. Obviously your best bet is not to live in or near a city. Look for smaller communities inland. I cant really point any areas in specific out since I live in Central FL and the cities and their stooges are rapidly swallowing those up ignoring long standing covenants about developing. I feel I am close to work at 30 miles and in a rapidly dwindling country environment. Shoot for more than one acre, even if you only use one acre, think of it as an investment. The city will get to you and try to swallow you up.

Obviously avoid Nazi HOAs which pretty much any "neighborhood" community has these days that might infringe on your right to use your land as you see fit.

On a positive note, by state law, you can shoot on your land provided you build in proper safety requirements like a berm or bullet stop.

Also, find a concrete block home. Do not waste your time with wood frame. A: You will have a hard time getting home insurance and what you get will be expensive. B: We have termites, a lot of termites. C: Hurricanes.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 10:38:32 AM by Tropheus76 »

LivingParadise

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 12:04:35 PM »
Based purely on the best place to grow tropical fruit, your options depend upon what specifically you want to grow. For sub-tropical climate with high rainfall, your best bet in is Homestead, FL. For tropical climate with lower rainfall, the Keys. For the highest temps possible to keep ultratropical fruit alive, Key West. For an easy tropical climate with plenty of rainfall and no freezes, plus soil you can actually grow healthy tropical fruit in, move instead to Hawaii, the Virgin Islands, or Puerto Rico. Florida has truly terrible, high-PH soil and a lot of noxious pests.

Any area Homestead or North, will be subject to freeze. Any area above SFL is going to freeze so often it is not worth a move specifically to grow tropicals. The Upper Keys have had record lows as low as 35 degrees F, but never freezing. Key West has had a record low of 42 degrees F, so slightly better.

Can you afford these places? Would you be happy with their cultures, people, and way of life? Can you get an acre of land there, and easy enough access to tropical plants to plant as many as you seem to be thinking? The answer for most people, in most of these locations, is no.

I see no reason to get into a discussion of housing and neighborhoods, and local city qualities, here on a fruit forum. There are other forums around the internet that discuss those aspects of living in various locations in SFL. The considerations are extensive, including hurricanes wiping out your house, as well as your fruit, in addition to crime, wildly different culture from the rest of the US, and exorbitant costs. But from a fruit growing answer alone, there is no place in Florida that is as good for growing tropicals as you can find in Hawaii, Puerto Rico, or the US Virgin Islands, as well as perhaps Guam (but I am assuming their soil sucks compared to the others). Climate-wise, the best location in Florida is going to be Key West, but you will never get that large a piece of property there.

Homestead/Florida City is known as the tropical fruit farming capital of the mainland US, so if you think you would be happy living there, it is the most likely to fit your plans.

Can you grow tropical fruit in locations further North? Yes. But if you're moving specifically to grow fruit, and want the best location, it doesn't make sense to point you to other places. For that matter, you might as well live in any state with a hot or moderate climate, because you're going to need to supplement at times of the year with heat, and/or with water, anyway.

The majority of Florida does not have a tropical climate, so moving there with the aim of growing tropical fruit doesn't really make much sense. I live in the Upper Keys, and I am very happy here. But even here, successfully growing tropical fruit is a lot of work. If it's not the soil, it's the diseases. If it's not the diseases, it's the insects. If it's not the insects, it's the mammals. If it's none of these things, it's the drought, or the flooding, or the severe wind.

Move for reasons other than tropical fruit. Or if you truly want to center your life around the fruit, don't move to FL, move to a truly tropical location with great soil.

gunnar429

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 02:37:24 PM »
is OP looking to grow "ultra-tropicals?"  If not, much of South FL will be fine.   I would say that most of what we grow here in S FL (mangoes, annonas, jackfruit, bananas) is considered tropical fruit.  You don't need to move to the Keys to grow tropicals unless you want to grow mangosteen/breadfruit/etc. 

~Jeff

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Tropicalnut

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 03:54:23 PM »
Whoa! All good information. Thanks!
I have never been to Hawaii, the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico. Maybe I should visit there as well.
I have lived all my life in the big cities and I like the commodity of getting what I need 24/7 and having the many amenities that makes our life easier on a daily basis, but coming from the tropics I also love fruit trees and enjoy talking to my plants.  Maybe I am spoiled and greedy and want it all :(

echinopora

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 04:15:19 PM »
Not a Florida resident, or even an American, but what would the cost differental be like for building a greenhouse in a cheaper, cooler area vs an expensive lot? Put frost senstive stuff in the greenhouse and many subtropicals can handle a little cold. When I was living on Vancouver Island in Canada there were some hobbyists growing citrus in hoop houses with minimal supplemental heat, mostly rocket mass heaters (yes I just went there).

CGameProgrammer

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 07:46:17 PM »
The Virgin Islands are out of the question if you like cities and being connected, but Hawaii and Puerto Rico are still options. I haven't been to the former but I have been to PR once for a weeklong vacation and it was really beautiful; I'd love to go back. The main island is about the same size as Hawaii island which is huge, but PR has a population of 4 million whereas Hawaii island has only 100k (Oahu has far more of course but is much smaller physically). PR is primarily Spanish-speaking though.

Tropicaliste

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 11:53:08 PM »
Guam is out of the question for most people, I doubt you could get an acre there, the island is small, and the military occupy most of it, from my understanding.  It's far away too. If you think hi islands is far from the mainland, guam would be too far.

Doglips

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2015, 11:34:29 AM »
Guam is out of the question for most people, I doubt you could get an acre there, the island is small, and the military occupy most of it, from my understanding.  It's far away too. If you think hi islands is far from the mainland, guam would be too far.
Military occupies far less than most of it.  An acre is not out the question.  But yes, it is expensive and remote, Hawaii is far better choice if fruit is the major selector.  The soil is not bad there actually.
Many many people grow Mangos in the Orlando area, so South America is not your only choice.

LivingParadise

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2015, 10:22:34 AM »
Good point that there is a different from subtropical vs. ultra-tropical fruits. But again, it comes back to what OP wants to grow.

I agree that a greenhouse in most cases would be FAR more affordable than land on an island or in SFL near a city. If you build a greenhouse, you can use the large deposit you would need for down payment, and thus live anywhere you want that allows for affordable land. You might have to be 45 min from a city to do so, but in some cases it would be dirt cheap, so to speak! (At least compared to large lots in SFL, or Hawaii.)

Most of SFL is marked as subtropical, meaning it is subject to freeze. There are plants that are hardy to such freezes. But for tropicals, you are going to be a lot more limited in what you can grow in those conditions, without a lot of extra care. The Keys are the only part of FL that never freeze. But as I say, you could do all that work and find them wiped out by a hurricane anyway.

I don't know what big cities you are referring to, but you should know that not a single part of Florida matches NYC, LA, or Chicago. There is no such thing as 24/7 conveniences, even in Miami. It is a slower pace of life, with a lower level of technology than truly major cities elsewhere, and a severe lack of public transportation, or other modern conveniences or trendy options. Florida is way behind on things like organic food, solar power, compared to CA for instance.

I completely get wanting to have it all. But if you don't really want a slower pace of life, why bother with the house way out on an acre of land? Many members here grow tropical fruits indoors in northern climates surrounded by snow. You could use their example to create a greenhouse in a small city yard, or to design something indoors that is contained enough not to destroy your apartment with mold.

Or, if you were willing to leave the US, you could consider a place like Singapore, or maybe Taiwan, or perhaps Ho Chi Minh City or Kuala Lumpur. Or somewhere on the outskirts of a major Indian city, which to me is the ultimate haven of rare tropical plants near city life. Or maybe Acapulco, or better yet Rio de Janeiro which has a lot of modern conveniences, or Costa Rica which is pretty together as a nation if not at the top of technological innovations. Or hang out with the wealthy in the Cayman Islands. Or give up the dream of city life but grow whatever you want in Jamaica. Or exile yourself totally but grow the most amazing thing on an island like Dominica. If it were me and I could, I would go back and forth between exiled tropical plant life, and major city life, because I haven't found a good location for me that houses both in one - but getting some of both each year would keep me sane.

edzone9

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 10:33:56 AM »
Naples Florida Golden Gates Estates Houses From 1.14 Acres - 5 Acres Better Value Than SE Florida , You Can Grow Mango's & Avocados And Other Tropical , There Some Forum Member's That Live & Grow There ..

Thanks Where I'm Aiming For , Just Make Sure You Get A Lot With Raised Land  ;)
Ed 
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fruitlovers

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 09:09:17 PM »
Unless you plan to devote your whole life to growing tropical fruits, then it's best to travel around and find a place that you actually like and can live in comfortably. I know people that have scouted for places solely based on temperatures, demographics, statistics, and charts. Then when they move there they can't stand it for one day.
Oscar

gnappi

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2015, 04:48:39 AM »
I've been in Florida since 1977 and other than congestion in certain cities I could live anywhere in the whole state. Luckily I'm in an area conducive to tropical fruit growing and my needs are not very large as far as quantity of fruit goes. That said I think southwest Dade is a good start for both location and size of lot, but you may not like the idea of not being near large cities if you like activities away from home.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 05:43:38 AM by gnappi »
Regards,

   Gary

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2015, 05:16:12 AM »
I would suggest living in a 9b zone so you can grow both tropical and temperates side by side.  :)

I like Foley, AL; Orlando, FL; and east Tampa, FL.

Tropicalnut

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2015, 07:56:31 PM »
Thanks for all the great information. You guys pointed out things that I had not thought of. I guess I need to visit some of the areas you mention and then make my decision according to my budget. :)
For now I will stay put in Phoenix AZ where at least I can grow some things even though it’s not as much as I want. Thanks again!

naturelover

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2015, 10:09:49 PM »
Not sure what expensive is for you, but you can get a small house on an acre of property , in a non hoa area, in western palm beach county for under 200k . An acre here can accommodate a whole lot of tropical fruit trees.

Tropicalnut

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2015, 12:30:11 PM »
 Thanks Naturelover, that is something I could definitely afford! :)
 I hate HOA because they stick their noses in what I am supposed to plant in my own home. I get it, it may be good for keeping "property value" but I think for the most part most people take care of their homes.
Now I have a place to start my search! Thanks gain you made my day!

DurianLover

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2015, 12:56:03 PM »
I hope you won't listen on zone 9b advise. It's not the best, it is the worst. I don't know what this guy was thinking.  You cannot properly grow temperates due to too much heat and humidity in the summer, and you can't really grow tropicals really because any upcoming winter could be your last. Exceptional arctic blast on any particular year will croak your plants. Constant struggle on both ends. You either go fully tropical like Hawaii and Puerto Rico, or at least South Florida where you can go grow lots of good stuff worry free.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2015, 01:26:02 PM »
I'd say the best soil and climate would be in palm beach county. The soil tends to be deep sand, and if you pay attention to the flora, you'll note that broward and south tend to have vegetation with a more yellow aspect to it -- due to the poorer soil. I've invested years and thousands of dollars improving the soil where I'm at in Tamarac. Palm beach county also tends to get a little more cold, which is nice as it induces bloom in a lot of subtroticals.

Unless you're flush with cash, you may have to settle for something closer to 1/3 acre, which still permits a pretty sizable collection.
Jeff  :-)

Viking Guy

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2015, 01:51:04 PM »
I hope you won't listen on zone 9b advise. It's not the best, it is the worst. I don't know what this guy was thinking.  You cannot properly grow temperates due to too much heat and humidity in the summer, and you can't really grow tropicals really because any upcoming winter could be your last. Exceptional arctic blast on any particular year will croak your plants. Constant struggle on both ends. You either go fully tropical like Hawaii and Puerto Rico, or at least South Florida where you can go grow lots of good stuff worry free.

As I have lived in all extremes, from ice to tropics and now between, I will gracefully disagree with you.  Totally depends on what you're trying to grow as well.  If you want variety, then 9b is perfect.  If you want to specialize, then go extreme.  There are advantages and disadvantages to either, but no hardiness climates are more successful in variation success than 9b-10b--especially if you have a greenhouse.

naturelover

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2015, 01:58:32 PM »
I'd say the best soil and climate would be in palm beach county. The soil tends to be deep sand, and if you pay attention to the flora, you'll note that broward and south tend to have vegetation with a more yellow aspect to it -- due to the poorer soil. I've invested years and thousands of dollars improving the soil where I'm at in Tamarac. Palm beach county also tends to get a little more cold, which is nice as it induces bloom in a lot of subtroticals.

Unless you're flush with cash, you may have to settle for something closer to 1/3 acre, which still permits a pretty sizable collection.

Acreage. Loxahatchee.... definitely land w/small homes to be had for under $200. During the housing downfall, there were some real bargains. I almost bought a 5 acre piece of property with a nice home, pool and huge separate outbuilding for 215$ , pre-foreclosure- we had a contract but the guy sold it to his friend.

 The only issue out west is you have to be careful about and flood prone lots. Also, anthracnose prone varieties do not do well. ( MrClean and Squam can elaborate on this).
 
I live on an acre which is not as west, so I paid a bit more. 2 really nice houses in my neighborhood went in the 300's last year, and we are all on one acre.
There are still bargains out there.

If you want perfect conditions, eastern/central Palm Beach county, in a safe neighborhood , then you will pay more.

DurianLover

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Re: Location, location.......
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »

As I have lived in all extremes, from ice to tropics and now between, I will gracefully disagree with you.  Totally depends on what you're trying to grow as well.  If you want variety, then 9b is perfect.  If you want to specialize, then go extreme.  There are advantages and disadvantages to either, but no hardiness climates are more successful in variation success than 9b-10b--especially if you have a greenhouse.

His primary goal is to grow fruits as stated, so it is not the best. Now for vegetables and other edibles 9b is excellent. I can agree on that.