South Florida Caribbean Mango Project?

[Jani]

With a Jamaican and Trinidadian background, my love for mangoes started early.

I found this thread (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6619.msg86396#msg86396) and was going to bump it, but decided to start a new topic.

One thing a Caribbean person (and I suspect other cultures from all over the tropics) loves about South Florida is the ability to grow fruits and vegetables they grew up with back home. I've been living in S. Fl for about 18 years, and have come to appreciate and grow many of the local FL varieties, and Asian/Indian varieties available here (but uncommon in the Caribbean). But it would be nice to have more of our Caribbean varieties to grow here.

Luckily Julie (Jamaica/Trinidad), Graham (Trinidad), Ice Cream (Trinidad), Bombay and East Indian (Jamaica), Madam Francis & Blanc (Haiti) are readily available at S. FL nurseries. But as we Caribbean folks know there are tons of other local varieties that it would be nice to grow here in S. FL.

So what I want to know is, are any of the less popular/known (in FL) Caribbean varieties thriving here, propogated and available, or do some have trees that they would be willing to share scions? I think it would be good for interested growers of Caribbean origin, and who knows, other growers may become interested to in these varieties.

I visit Jamaica regularly (far more than I do Trinidad), and I don't know why I didn't do this before, but I plan to "import" some scions when i come back next time (probably during Decemeber, although that may not be a good time to graft them), or have some sent up with regularly visiting family and friends.  My first goal is to graft two of my favorite Jamican varieties outside of the "big 3" (Julie,Bombay, East Indian) - Number 11, and Blackie (about the size of an egg). I'd also love to get my hands on the local Trinidad varieites Calabash and DouxDoux (sp?). Any others done, do, or plan to do this with scions and/or seeds?

I know there are a few posters here from Jamaican, Trinidad and other island backgrounds, I'd like to hear your thoughts on increasing the availability of these varieties in S. FL.

For the forum as a whole, here are some of the common local often colorfully-named Caribbean varieties, other than those already well known in FL (Julie, Bombay, Ice Cream, Graham & East Indian).

Jamaica: Number 11, Number 7, Long, Sweetie, Blackie, Robin, Stringy, Hairy, Bastard, Beef, Sweetie Come Brush Me, Bellfyull, Kidney.

Trinidad: Calabash, DouxDoux, Cutlass, Long, Rose, Starch, Spice, Ten Pound, Robin.

These lists are definitely not complete, and I know there are many new varieties available. Also sorry that I don't know much about Haitian, the other French islands' (Martinique etc.), Spanish speaking islands', or Guyanese local mangoes.. Also most of the mangoes from the other English Speaking Islands are similar to those available in Trinidad and Jamaica, although  there are  probably some local varieties I'm not familiar with..would love for anyone to fill in the blanks.

Little quick history for those who may not know, Mango cultivation is the Caribbean was around for centuries, and especially grew in Trinidad and Jamaica and some other islands where large populations of indentured workers from India settled in the 1800s.

[gunnar429]

I miss the hairy mango.....NOT!

I only went to jamaica twice, but thank god for the bombay.  Most that I had were very fibrous.  Some, like east indian were just nasty.  I have a friend from JA and I always tease her saying the exact opposite--that we need to import FL varieties (without Fiber) to Jamaica so they will actually know what a good mango is (bombay, of course, notwithstanding)

Interested to hear about the doo-doo mango.

Of course, if I grew up in JA, I would feel very different, i know.  I would probably even think June Plum is palatable 

[gunnar429]

Good luck though--sounds like  a good idea, since we have so many caribbeans down here, yet so few available varieties. 

[TnTrobbie]

I'd throw away mango Rose. Gorgeous colors of varying hues of red and pink with canary yellow- flawless exterior but watery as hell (?) no matter how dry the weather was. It made that fiberous mango unpalatable. Had lots of them for many years at my uncle's farm in wallerfield during the mango season. Calabash and Starch are still my favs. I've never heard of graham and ice cream mango until I moved to FL and was shocked to hear where they were from LOL. Then, Lo and behold, on my last trip back to TnT in 2013, I found a 40+ foot Ice Cream mango tree in Santa Rosa on a friend's property. Very distinct dark green, thin leaves. He himself told me it was Ice Cream mango (he also had a fruiting yellow Rambutan tree, figs, cocorite, and some other exotic fruit trees from other caribbean countries non native to TnT).
I'm Pro fiber- as long as its sweet. Big fan of East Indian mango. Big, juicy, spicy with a resinious burn twang. Yummm. Too bad it produces very little and has disease problems (anthracnose). Yes it is difficult to eat as as you would a "fiber-few/less" mango, but just use the knife a little more and cube it up. Good for the colon.
I'm sure some trini in south florida has Starch and a guyanese with Bauxton Spice mango tree. It just to find em and convince em to part with some bud wood.

[gunnar429]

I think Excalibur may carry Buxton Spice.  Maybe Bsbullie can chime in.

[Jani]

Hey now Gunnar..June plums are great!
Actually I forgot I have an aunt in pembroke pines who has the Jamaican black (blackie) mango, they are cool little mangoes about the size of an egg, very sweet, a bit of fiber, and grow on a dense moderately vigorous tree...be happy to get some scions in the spring for anyone interested.

[davidgarcia899]

Americans hate mangos with fiber, but fiberless isn't something that is always selected for, I like my mangoes with a little fiber

[gunnar429]

Hey now Gunnar..June plums are great!
Actually I forgot I have an aunt in pembroke pines who has the Jamaican black (blackie) mango, they are cool little mangoes about the size of an egg, very sweet, a bit of fiber, and grow on a dense moderately vigorous tree...be happy to get some scions in the spring for anyone interested.

That mango was everywhere I visted in Jamaica.  It seems everyone had a blackie tree at their house. 

[murahilin]

After eating enough good Florida mangos, especially the new Zill cultivars, I can't get myself to eat most of the mangos from the Caribbean. I rather not eat them, because they just aren't that good. Nostalgia is not enough for me to eat a sub par fruit.

Excalibur has one grafted Buxton Spice. Not sure if they've started to graft more though.

[gunnar429]

After eating enough good Florida mangos, especially the new Zill cultivars, I can't get myself to eat most of the mangos from the Caribbean. I rather not eat them, because they just aren't that good. Nostalgia is not enough for me to eat a sub par fruit.

Excalibur has one grafted Buxton Spice. Not sure if they've started to graft more though.

Agreed

[bsbullie]

Excalibur has begun grafting Buxton Spice.  Timing for release/sale is probably late spring or early summer of 2015.

[Bush2Beach]

Great plan Jani, There is definately a need to collect and preserve these varieties from the W.I. And particularly from the incredibly diverse Is-land of wood and water. I think about the native sugar apples, custard apples, soursop too. I think it would be very beneficial to also share the varieties and species found in South Florida to more of the W.I. Puerto Rico is the only island I know of that has nurseries with availability to all the fruits. I wish that availability was found across the Caribbean. Considering all the food imports . Having cold storage Hass Avocado's from CA as the only "pear" you can find is nuts.

[Jani]

Hey bush2beach, yes sir, I'm going to try my best with this and see what progress I can make over the next year or so (and bump the thread from time to time with updates).

To some others, well I guess I'm a sucker for nostalgia , so I will definitely try to score some of the nostalgic varieties.

While I agree there are many superior varieties available here and not in the Caribbean, I still there is some pretty good quality stuff, and actually a lot of experimentation going on with new cultivars of very high quality. I wouldn't automatically dismiss what's being cultivated there as all inferior. I've tasted some pretty impressive (and yes fiberless)  cultivars that individual farmers have propagated in Jamaica, but getting the word out and reproducing on a bigger scale has been a challenge for them, especially when people in the island want often only their typical Julie, Bombay and East Indian mangoes.  There have also been lots of new varieties propagated in Trinidad too. So I'm sure there are some if not many local gems available.

Take a look at the vast amount of unfamiliar varieties from the Trinidad mango festival a couple years ago. It's amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gqri6waEXQ

I wouldn't underestimate mango cultivation in the Caribbean, afterall it's been practiced there arguably longer than in FL (?) and has indirectly given birth to many of the "superior" FL varieties. There's a lot of exciting stuff going on in Jamaica and Trinidad and likely elsewhere.

@ bsbullie, very exciting about the Buxton Spice coming out, I'm not hugely familiar with it, could you let me know a little more about the tree's habits please?

Thanks all.

[JF]

Jani

Great project. I'm growing mango Villa Clara, Mamey, Corazon and I located a source  tree of the legendary Bizcochuelo all from Cuba. I also have mango Pais, Chemax from Caribbean Mexico

[Jexton]

Jani

Great project. I'm growing mango Villa Clara, Mamey, Corazon and I located a source  tree of the legendary Bizcochuelo all from Cuba. I also have mango Pais, Chemax from Caribbean Mexico

Bizcochuelo? Every year I have to hear this old Cuban lady at work about how bizcochuelo is the best mango ever. I always thought she was making it up! She does say that Kent is similar but not as good.

What does it compare too?

[JF]

Jani

Great project. I'm growing mango Villa Clara, Mamey, Corazon and I located a source  tree of the legendary Bizcochuelo all from Cuba. I also have mango Pais, Chemax from Caribbean Mexico

Bizcochuelo? Every year I have to hear this old Cuban lady at work about how bizcochuelo is the best mango ever. I always thought she was making it up! She does say that Kent is similar but not as good.

What does it compare too?

The old Cuban lady was right, maybe you should show more respect. It's as sweet as Chausa or LZ firm fiberless creamy unlike any other mango you ever tasted.

[gnappi]

It's a brad brush stroke to say "all" Americans like fiber-less mango.

The previous owners of my house were from  the Caribbean and planted two mango trees.

I have a most excellent what's thought to be east Indian mango that is super sweet with a spicy overtone gets fiber in my teeth but I relish them, just not the scale it attracts!

I also have what I'm told is a Madame Francis (I have my doubts) which is a bit fibrous but every bite is worth the flossing I need later on :-)