Author Topic: Time needed for grafts to take  (Read 10884 times)

Pancrazio

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Time needed for grafts to take
« on: July 11, 2012, 08:48:42 PM »
Hi
I have recently (3 days ago) grafted a mango, a glenn over turpentine.
While it's pretty straightforward to understand if it didn't take (i guess that the scion will simply wither and die) i also need to understand if the graft take because i grafted on a side shot of the plant (i wanted to keep the other side shoots for future grafts, in case this will fail) and i'm not sure the graft i just made will sprout as soon as healed because the plant has still lots of apical dominance. I'd like to cut the other twigs of the plant, if i'm sure it has took, to encourage sprouting. So basically, how long takes for a graft to heal?
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HMHausman

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2012, 09:23:46 PM »
My rule of thumb is not to touch anything for 30 days.  Theninspect and see where you are.  In rare instances (at least for me) the scion in mango grafting pushes out new growth before the 30 days passes.  I have never had one of these fail.  If no new growth has happened prior to the 30 days, I wait and watch for the terminal buds on the scion to push.  Once they throw out new growth, you are pretty much home free.  I have had the rare failure after that, but it is rare...as I said.  I have had some grafts that have remained dormant for months, but still alive.  Again, waiting for the new growth to push signals success.

Harry
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Pancrazio

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 07:23:23 AM »
Thank you Harry.
I will keep that graft protected for 30-40 days, then i'll see if it sprouts by itself or i need to trim the other twigs (assuming it will be alive in 30 days). I'll have to "force" pushing of new grow around the 15th of august (if such thing can be done), because otherwise it won't be hard enough for surviving the following winter. Too bad i had very poor grafting material (both as rootstock and scion), but learning to graft is very important too keep up with my experiments!
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Guanabanus

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 08:53:27 PM »
Yes, mango grafts in the summer take about a month.

Tomato grafts, less than a week, lychee grafts close to three months.  Those are the extremes that I know.
Har

fyliu

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 10:02:11 PM »
What type of graft works best for lychee? Veneer?

Pancrazio

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 01:27:03 PM »
There isn't any risk about me grating a lychee, as for now. :D

I was also wondering, should i keep the plant under some kind of shadow or can i keep it at the same spot (full sun, keep in mind we are experiencing temperatures during the day in the mid 90F) it used to be?
The scion is tiny and i'm scared to dehydratate it; but keeping it in the shadow i'm also scared about pathogens.
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Cookie Monster

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 03:58:25 PM »
Shield budding worked for me...

What type of graft works best for lychee? Veneer?
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 03:59:13 PM »
70% shade is good.

There isn't any risk about me grating a lychee, as for now. :D

I was also wondering, should i keep the plant under some kind of shadow or can i keep it at the same spot (full sun, keep in mind we are experiencing temperatures during the day in the mid 90F) it used to be?
The scion is tiny and i'm scared to dehydratate it; but keeping it in the shadow i'm also scared about pathogens.
Jeff  :-)

Pancrazio

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »
Thank you Jeff. I moved the plant in a bit sunnier spot.
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Jsvand5

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 08:49:03 PM »
Mango about 1 week using Forkert method. These mango scions were grafted on July 4th all are pushing out on the terminal bud.



Not bad if you are happy with 100% takes I guess. I like at least half of my grafts to fail. Adds to the suspense...

Mangomaniac

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 08:42:48 PM »
Enduser, can you say, tongue in cheek? Of course 100% is fantastic ! Jsvand 5 & the rest of us wish we could
have that kind of grafting success. Its time to meet the Forkerts !!!

Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 09:34:10 PM »
So what happens if those terminal buds push growth and break the tapes within the first week or 1.5?  Do you let them be or re-wrap/bag to keep moisture in?

I'm with Jsvand5, I'd much prefer 50% fail to add to the suspense rather than 100% fail, not withstanding this year  ;D

Mango about 1 week using Forkert method. These mango scions were grafted on July 4th all are pushing out on the terminal bud.


Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 08:55:53 AM »
By the standard of some of you grafting experts, I must be a real thrill seeker.  I let my grafting success rate hover around 10%.

Harry
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Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »
Cool, thanks for the response Enduser.
Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2012, 01:26:33 PM »
Today I grafted another glenn on a seedling.
The previous graft doesn't show any sign of change except the fact that part of the leave petiole i left on the scion has shrivelled e deatched from the scion (but it is still inside the grafting tape). Usually this is a good sign on temperate fruit trees, means that the scion isn't dead yet, but time will tell.
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lkailburn

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2012, 06:01:27 PM »
Mango about 1 week using Forkert method. These mango scions were grafted on July 4th all are pushing out on the terminal bud.



Holy moly the size of the trunks on some of those rootstocks were huge. How old were they before chopping them for the graft?

-Luke

Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 08:45:42 PM »
Enduser - can you please talk a bit about the Forkert method?  Would love to give this a try...
Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 10:51:54 PM »
Mango about 1 week using Forkert method. These mango scions were grafted on July 4th all are pushing out on the terminal bud.



WOW enduser! Take notes Cuban007,Greg and MangoDog

I rather be batting 1.000 than 0.100.... that's my average!

Tim

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 11:06:35 PM »
You know, I was trying to look that one up but couldn't reference it. ;D
Tim

fyliu

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2012, 12:10:26 PM »
Thanks. It doesn't seem too different from other grafting methods like shield budding and topworking a tree. Someone else with mango trees should try to replicate this.

Pancrazio

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2012, 10:39:26 AM »
Yayyy! My very first graft took! So far then, actually, i'm also in the realm of those who have a 100% rate of success. Only 1 over 1 graft, but this is still a solid 100%.  ;D

The actual graft (glenn over gomera 3):



The swelling bud:


If some italian will ever read this, be aware that here the only good month for mango gafts is july.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 07:30:27 PM by Pancrazio »
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samuelforest

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 01:25:21 PM »
Congrats!

fruit4me

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2012, 01:57:19 AM »
Yayyy! My very first graft took! So far then, actually, i'm also in the realm of those who have a 100% rate of success. Only 1 over 1 graft, but this is still a solid 100%.  ;D
Looking Good!
Congratulations! Mr. 100%

Tropicdude

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2012, 02:04:06 AM »
Congratulations Pancrazio ! :)
William
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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2012, 08:24:51 AM »
that's awesome, congrats!

Pancrazio

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2012, 09:24:15 AM »
Thank you guys and girls!
Now starts the hardest part; swallowing some tommy atkins from grocery store to get more seeds fot next year's grafts!   :D
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samuelforest

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2012, 10:07:36 AM »
Good luck! :-\

emegar

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2012, 10:23:48 AM »
I attempted a veneer graft on a couple of my mangoes in May using Pim Saen Mun scions.  I did a couple in the hopes that at least one would take.  One took off in a matter of a few weeks, and I had given up on the other, when, after 6-8 weeks (very recently), it got around to leafing out.  Seems to me a big part of the time-to-flush question has to do with the point in the tree's growth cycle in which grafting takes place.  When I grafted the first of the two trees, it must have been ready to push.
James

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2012, 08:25:51 PM »
Well, i have limited experience, but there are a couple of things i can say, based on what i have seen (and i hope they may be useful for those starting, like me).
Firstly, 2 graft (of the 3 i have done) seem to have taken (today i controlled even the others i made, i spoke about them earlier).

The 2 which did take were about to push when i collected the scions (you know, when you realize that the terminal bud is about to start developing, but isn't really developing so fast YET). Both of them, and even the rootstock were in this phase. I guess that if you manage to keep the scion alive for very long (like in your case) you can graft even on a rootstock wich isn't pushing right then, but seems a bit risky to me (honestly, is hard to me understand when a mango will push new grow, even if i noticed that, when well hydrated and healty, they put out basically a flush every 3-5 weeks, so i wouldn't graft on something i don't see growing).
The one wich i grafted and didn't take (it whitered very soon apparently) was a scion coming from a flush wich was just hardened, and even if it was pushing when i have taken it, it dehydrated quickly once i put it in place. So i guess that best material comes from scions wich are about 2-3 flushes old, well hardened, woody but with green skin.
Well, that said, another thing i found useful is having done everything with scions and rootstock of the same size. Maybe the experts are able to match even scions and rootstock of different sizes; i'm not.
That said, having the rootstock fo the perfect size, at the perfect stage of development when you want to graft is a bit tricky, expecially if you haven't much space. I guess that it is the rootstock wich actually decides when it wants to be grafted. :D
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Guanabanus

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Re: Time needed for grafts to take
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2012, 08:45:12 PM »
Congratulations on good job and good advice.
Har

 

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