Author Topic: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer  (Read 13775 times)

edzone9

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Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« on: October 12, 2014, 03:47:09 PM »
Hello Gang;

I'm looking for an organic method of fertilizing my trees, I read that kelp/seaweed is great stuff, but when I read the label of the container, it had a warning that this product contains lead, mercury, arsenic and a bunch of other carcinogens !

WTF ! Is it organic or freaking toxic ?..
I retuned it back to HD for a refund..

Thanks Ed.
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simon_grow

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2014, 04:00:28 PM »
Just because it's organic doesn't mean it's safe. arsenic for example can be considered organic as it can be found naturally in the environment. Just use your best judgement and try to avoid certain pesticides, fungicides. I like to use kelp and fish emulsion.

Simon

nullzero

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2014, 04:05:02 PM »
Hello Gang;

I'm looking for an organic method of fertilizing my trees, I read that kelp/seaweed is great stuff, but when I read the label of the container, it had a warning that this product contains lead, mercury, arsenic and a bunch of other carcinogens !

WTF ! Is it organic or freaking toxic ?..
I retuned it back to HD for a refund..

Thanks Ed.

Ed try the dried concentrate kelp from kelp4less (https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/kelp/), much cheaper been using for at least 2 years. Works very well, plants respond to it well. I also been testing the fish bone meal which is 4-20-0, the kelp is 1-0-8. I have been using a combo of both.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 04:39:51 PM by nullzero »
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

edzone9

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2014, 07:05:33 PM »
Thanks Fellas, I'm going To Try Those Products...

Ed.
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OrganicJim

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2014, 09:19:36 PM »

Living in Florida you need to look at companies that supply organic products that are from youir area of hte country.
This company is in the Orlando area and handles good organic products moslty from Florida and Georgia.
http://www.ecofriendlyonline.com/

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2014, 10:39:49 PM »
Organic and natural is a racket.  You don't know what's in your organic plant foods or end product.  It's all about marketing.

Tropicdude

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2014, 10:54:18 PM »
The problem with lead is, its in everything that comes from the ocean.    even Azomite, which is another soil amendment  for minerals, has all those nasty guys. 

what you need to consider is how much is there?  micro doses of lead and arsenic  may already be in your soil, or even in natural fertilizers.   whats important is how much is there already.

Quote
plants do not absorb or accumulate lead. However, in soils testing high in lead, it is possible for some lead to be taken up. Studies have shown that lead does not readily accumulate in the fruiting parts of vegetable and fruit crops (e.g., corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, strawberries, apples). Higher concentrations are more likely to be found in leafy vegetables (e.g., lettuce) and on the surface of root crops (e.g., carrots)
http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/soils/lead-in-home-garden/

There are many sources of natural fertilizers,   one you may consider is  worm compost, and teas made from them.  instead of Kelp. you can usually buy the stuff from those that make it, or make your own.

Not sure of your set up,  just a few trees, or an orchard.  but plain old mulching with leaves and chopped up branches and stuff.   after all that's how it works in forests. .


Personally I will use regular fertilizers if one is marked Organic, then I will get that one,    what I stay away from completely is herbicides, and pesticides.   I may use Neem or some other natural stuff.  and bugs have really not been a problem for me.

As for previous comment that "Organic and Natural is a Racket"  this is what some people choose to believe due to corporate misinformation on channels like Fox News.  If you think its easy to put out a product and label it Organic you will see how difficult it is, and how many inspections and requirements are needed.  this is the main reason organic stuff cost more.

As for stuff that is not Organic,  there is NO TESTING whatsoever,  this is where you can really say that you do not know whats in it.    remember DDT?  they said that was safe also.  Organic and Natural are cutting into corporate profits,  so you can expect them to say Organic is a racket.

We have the power to decide what we put in our bodies.  and if your growing your own food, you have the best way to insure eating stuff that is safe.

What I do not like about the "Organic" label is that its a business,  they make it too expensive for mom and pop operations to use it,  you cannot just stick the "Organic" label on you package,  no matter how safe or natural it is.

This is why a new movement to label "Natural Grown" is going forward.  this works on a different system, and is even more strict in what can and cannot be used. this is specifically for small farms and Mom and Pop operations.

https://www.naturallygrown.org/





« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 11:23:39 PM by Tropicdude »
William
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Cookie Monster

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2014, 11:16:26 PM »
Probably true about 90% of the organic stuff out there. Organic is more about sustainability than it is freedom from harmful chemicals. That said, there are some really high quality organic products. The only salad dressings, cereals, etc that I can find which don't have added sugar or sugar masquerading as something else (eg, cane juice, fruit juice concentrate, honey, etc) are organic.

You have to go above and beyond the simply "organic" label if you want a top notch animal-based product: eg, "pastured raised" when it comes to meat and dairy. But even then there are tricksters who deceive purchasers, like the former Rawesome Foods in socal and his cohort, Healthy Family Farms. They were supposedly selling pastured-raised products but were simply re-packaging factory farm foods.

Organic and natural is a racket.  You don't know what's in your organic plant foods or end product.  It's all about marketing.
Jeff  :-)

Tropicdude

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 11:36:24 PM »
I agree Jeff,    Organic does not automatically mean healthy.    Eggs and Sugar can be natural and organic, but eat too much, and you will have health problems.   big corporations have jumped on the Organic bandwagon, and as you said, a breakfast cereal may be labeled organic, but  be loaded with sugar.

And its sad that some corporations, have looked for ways to cheat, there will always be these cases.

But then again, the best we can do is try and limit the amount of toxic chemicals we ingest. to say, hey I wont be able to remove 100% of them so why try? is not very smart.

Our bodies can remove toxins over time,  but if we are constantly bombarding them, you can have serious problems.   by the way, since we are talking about lead.  Cilantro has been shown to help leach lead from cells in the body. 
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 11:06:15 AM »

As for previous comment that "Organic and Natural is a Racket"  this is what some people choose to believe due to corporate misinformation on channels like Fox News.  If you think its easy to put out a product and label it Organic you will see how difficult it is, and how many inspections and requirements are needed.  this is the main reason organic stuff cost more.

And the reason why I'm not willing to pay 3X for something that is no more healthier than conventional farming practices.  "Organic" is a religion played out to sucker bets who fall for the hype.

Quote
As for stuff that is not Organic,  there is NO TESTING whatsoever,

Not true.  Oregon, believe Washington state test and report thousands of products.  This one is a good example - http://www.mda.state.mn.us/chemicals/fertilizers/heavymetals.aspx

 
Quote
[Organic and Natural are cutting into corporate profits,  so you can expect them to say Organic is a racket.

I don't have a dog in the hunt so I could care less about corporate profits nor do the hundreds of other corporations like BASF, Monsanto, BASF, etc.. 

Quote
We have the power to decide what we put in our bodies.  and if your growing your own food, you have the best way to insure eating stuff that is safe.

I take great care as to what goes into my body and consider myself a good steward of the earth.  I also do my homework and get the facts, not from some quackery sponsored by organic proponents with their Donation links and sales pitches.  For example, everyone's on the GMO kick.  Well, here's 5 lies about the biotech crops, exposed!  http://reason.com/archives/2013/02/22/the-top-five-lies-about-biotech-crops

Quote
  no matter how safe or natural it is.

Safe and natural really don't belong in the same sentence.  Just because it's natural most folks consider it safe.  It's all about marketing psychology.

Quote
This is why a new movement to label "Natural Grown" is going forward.

Ahhhhhh, so we're already going forward with another gimmick?  Guess the gluten free hype has gotten old LOL.   ;D

Quote
https://www.naturallygrown.org/

There's one of those natural websites fer ya!  Like I said, and then there's the Donate link and all the products/services they hawk.  https://www.naturallygrown.org/crm/store

Look, if it works for you then go for it.  I'm just yanking your chain a bit, but am also saying "buyer beware".

Good luck,
Mark

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 11:12:04 AM »
But then again, the best we can do is try and limit the amount of toxic chemicals we ingest. to say, hey I wont be able to remove 100% of them so why try? is not very smart.

What toxic chemicals and how do you know they're toxic?  Do you own a lab or you parroting something you read on Natural News?  Have you ever talked to a scientist, an entomologist about stuff like organophosphates and how they are broken down into harmless phosphates thru the action of light, heat, and moisture.  Call up a non-partisan, independent professional and get the facts.

Quote
Our bodies can remove toxins over time,  but if we are constantly bombarding them, you can have serious problems.  by the way, since we are talking about lead.  Cilantro has been shown to help leach lead from cells in the body.

I eat what I want and I have a perfect bill of health as reflected by yearly physical exams and a complete blood chemistry profile including a PSA test.  My grandfather ate what he wanted in the days of DDT, drenched his breakfast toast in bacon fat and slurped coffee all day. He lived to the ripe old age of 88.

Now, please give me the source for the claims about cilantro removing lead.  Source wouldn't be from that quack Dr. Mercola by chance or some partisan firm like the American Chemical Society?

We are a nation driven by political correctness, feelings, and histeria....a nation of whiners and neurotics.

End of rant...... ;D

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 11:28:23 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 11:45:24 AM »
what I stay away from completely is herbicides, and pesticides.   I may use Neem or some other natural stuff.  and bugs have really not been a problem for me.

Interesting data on toxicity:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lincoln/sites/default/files/Least_Toxic_Pesticiddes_for_Gardeners.pdf
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 11:52:38 AM by Mark in Texas »

marklee

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 12:11:22 PM »
what I stay away from completely is herbicides, and pesticides.   I may use Neem or some other natural stuff.  and bugs have really not been a problem for me.

Interesting data on toxicity:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lincoln/sites/default/files/Least_Toxic_Pesticiddes_for_Gardeners.pdf
Mark in Texas,
Thanks for providing some truth to the discussion. Whenever someone quotes the "outstanding benefits" of organic food they attach links from sources that agree with the "racket" the url is usually a .com instead of a .edu Here is an interesting link

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/07/15/study-claiming-organic-food-more-nutritious-deeply-flawed-say-independent-scientists/

or check the information on the National institute of Health NIH website concerning organic foods.

On a side note, check the data on how many people died as a result of banning DDT. I lived in Africa and know first hand the incredible suffering of people with  malaria, dengue, yellow fever. Also how many lives have been saved from GMO foods.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2014, 12:18:45 PM »
This rant never seems to end for you Mark. It's on a yearly cycle where you pick up where you left off or repeat yourself. Thanks for the bi annual chain yanking.
You are correct about the word Natural being a marketing ploy that means nothing and everything and is used to trick the consumer.

Aside from that kelp fertilizer is good stuff.

Doglips

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2014, 12:24:26 PM »
Quote
[Organic and Natural are cutting into corporate profits,  so you can expect them to say Organic is a racket.

I don't have a dog in the hunt so I could care less about corporate profits nor do the hundreds of other corporations like BASF, Monsanto, BASF, etc.. 
Validity of any argument pro or con notwithstanding....
Since Monsanto doesn't have a dog in the organic hunt, therefore everything they say discounting organics is without bias?
If you are selling food (or products that directly affect the production) that has an organic counterpart, you are in competition with organics, and you do have a dog in the hunt, lets be real.

edzone9

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2014, 07:44:28 PM »
Thanks for all the great info gang !, I'm going to switch up to Coffee grounds for now as I do more re-search on the subject..

I will agree with Sugars & too Much Meat is no good for the human body, I really leaned a lot about nutrition from Dr Campbell( Not Richard ) With the China study, It just makes sense the way he breaks it down...

Thanks Ed..
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nullzero

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2014, 08:10:26 PM »
Thanks for all the great info gang !, I'm going to switch up to Coffee grounds for now as I do more re-search on the subject..

I will agree with Sugars & too Much Meat is no good for the human body, I really leaned a lot about nutrition from Dr Campbell( Not Richard ) With the China study, It just makes sense the way he breaks it down...

Thanks Ed..

Careful with coffee grounds in containers. The coffee ground salts can build up easily in container trees from what I noticed. I would look into worm composting, or consider getting a large rabbit as a pet (nice manure).
Grow mainly fruits, vegetables, and herbs.

edzone9

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »
Where Can I Buy Worm Compost ?
Thanks Ed.
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2014, 10:55:47 PM »
what I stay away from completely is herbicides, and pesticides.   I may use Neem or some other natural stuff.  and bugs have really not been a problem for me.

Interesting data on toxicity:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lincoln/sites/default/files/Least_Toxic_Pesticiddes_for_Gardeners.pdf
Mark in Texas,
Thanks for providing some truth to the discussion. Whenever someone quotes the "outstanding benefits" of organic food they attach links from sources that agree with the "racket" the url is usually a .com instead of a .edu Here is an interesting link

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/07/15/study-claiming-organic-food-more-nutritious-deeply-flawed-say-independent-scientists/

or check the information on the National institute of Health NIH website concerning organic foods.

On a side note, check the data on how many people died as a result of banning DDT. I lived in Africa and know first hand the incredible suffering of people with  malaria, dengue, yellow fever. Also how many lives have been saved from GMO foods.

You're welcome.  Seeking truth is a hunting experience - one in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 11:00:30 PM »
Thanks for all the great info gang !, I'm going to switch up to Coffee grounds for now as I do more re-search on the subject..

I will agree with Sugars & too Much Meat is no good for the human body, I really leaned a lot about nutrition from Dr Campbell( Not Richard ) With the China study, It just makes sense the way he breaks it down...

Thanks Ed..

Hope your faves enjoy the coffee.

Have a link on this Dr. Campbell guy and his China stuff?    Like to see if he makes any sense or is just another internet quack out to make a quick buck from the sucker bets he targets.

Mark

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2014, 01:08:13 AM »
The china study is fairly well known at this point, but there is considerable debate as to its conclusions and the validity of the research.

Organic products are grown with pesticides, just different ones: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

"Contrary to what most people believe, "organic" does not automatically mean "pesticide-free" or "chemical-free". In fact, under the laws of most states, organic farmers are allowed to use a wide variety of chemical sprays and powders on their crops."

I don't think it's possible to produce consumer quality produce in a factory farm setting without the use of pesticides. The American consumer is way to averse to produce that doesn't look picture perfect.

Those studies that analyze pesticide residues are only looking for residues of the pesticides used in conventional farming, not the organic ones, which are just as harmful.

(another quote from the link above)

"Until recently, nobody bothered to look at natural chemicals (such as organic pesticides), because it was assumed that they posed little risk. But when the studies were done, the results were somewhat shocking: you find that about half of the natural chemicals studied are carcinogenic as well."

If you want a quality product that's pesticide-free, you can't rely on that organic label; you need to seek out the small scale farmer who sells their goods at farmers markets (vs the big retail stores) where one can ask them exactly what they're using. Unfortunately, we have a dearth of genuine farmers markets here in my area. The vast majority are just reselling goods from produce wholesalers.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2014, 07:34:14 AM »
one in the hand is better than two in the bush.

not necessarily - what if we're talking about sex?  ;D

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2014, 08:25:04 AM »
"Others note that the study targets ten groups of chemicals, including conventional pesticide residues, antioxidants and metals, but does not examine other pertinent chemicals such as pesticides commonly used in organic agriculture that are approved by the National Organic Program. While synthetic pesticides are not used in organic agriculture, organic pesticides such as rotenone and pyrethrin are used as these chemicals are produced by plant sources and considered ‘natural,’ even though they might be more toxic to people than some synthetic alternatives."

It's a fact that conventional gardening produces more nutritional "goodies" such as proteins than organically grown.  Organically grown produce just isn't getting enough N that plants need for optimum growth which equates to nutrition.

The real issue and concern should be, are any of the pesticides used, organic or synthetic, harmful based on the original residues or have some just turned into neurotic ninnys needing drama in their daily lives?  FDA doesn't think so and has limits on what can and can not be sold to consumers regarding residue samples/tests.  All of the "the sky is falling" types are just shooting from the hip anyway, and that includes me, believing in what they read on the internet and such.  NO ONE has the facilities to actually test anything in that ear of corn or steak they're about to sink their teeth into. 

I do know that back in the early 70's I would take a bath in grapevine sprays containing organophosphates and chlorinated pesticides - DDT, Lindane, Methoxlychlor and Malathion....and I'm still standing at the ripe old Medicare age.   ;)

Aint gonna sweat the small stuff.......and ah aint gonna make the small into big stuff. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 08:30:47 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2014, 08:43:38 AM »
This rant never seems to end for you Mark. It's on a yearly cycle where you pick up where you left off or repeat yourself.

I never stop seeking the truth.

Quote
Aside from that kelp fertilizer is good stuff.
 

And just how good is it?  ;D  Usually kelp is not a complete NPK with micros food.  Cold water derived kelp or seaweed extract is a supplement, a tonic, and folks who sell supplements can get by with murder when it comes to marketing and claims and of course the high cost associated with the stuff.  By law they are not required to report the guaranteed analysis.  So, as a corporation if you have snake oil to sell, make sure you're doing so as a "supplement".   ;)  Know what's in that Spray-n-Gro stuff?  Mainly sodium.  Call them up, see if they'll release to you a bonafide non-partisan analysis.

I have used several brands of kelp, one from a local and huge market - Medina Ag, and have not seen ANY benefit in their use and yes, I used control groups.  Only obvious benefit is Medina's corporate pocketbook is getting fatter....complete with the claims and testimonials.   
http://www.medinaag.com/product_details.php?pid=NDQ=

Dyna-Gro plant food is an excellent example of a complete, value priced fertilizer which contains all 13 essential elements plants need to perform.

Looks like Home Depot sells Pennington Alaskan Pure Kelp Liquid Fertilizer which doesn't even contain phosphorous!  How can they legally get by labeling this stuff as a fertilizer when one of the three NPK elements is missing?  How can you grow anything without P?   Sheesh....  :-\

I report, you decide,
Mark
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 02:33:28 PM by Mark in Texas »

Bush2Beach

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Re: Alaskan Kelp Fertilizer
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2014, 11:12:46 AM »
Where Can I Buy Worm Compost ?
Thanks Ed.
Worm Castings should be available at the garden store. If they are hard to find where your at or want to produce castings yourself there are tutorials online for Worm Bins and you can order red wigglers online. Worm castings are a fantastic addition to soil or tea's for watering. You can never have to much or use too much in my opinion. I have mixed up to 50% castings in my potted soil blend and you can't burn plants with this stuff. It's the black gold that makes plants go gangbusters.