Author Topic: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?  (Read 14143 times)

Andersp90

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What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« on: June 24, 2014, 03:46:03 PM »
Hello everyone.

Which tropicals can/are being grown in the zone 10 part of Europe?

I know that we can sometimes buy Keith mangos from Spain.

And it seems that this nursery in Malaga, spain, is selling guanabana, jaboticaba, sapodilla, Rollinia and lots of other tropicals: http://frutalestropicales.com/product.php?id_product=28

But do they have to be covered in winter? Or even grown in greenhouses?

I am very curious to know. :)

   

« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 03:55:19 PM by Andersp90 »
Kind regards Anders.

frukt

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2014, 05:33:05 PM »
Its important to know if it gets frost in the area. Many plants dont have good protection against frost. Many plants can still take frost and the if you say that you have a place in zon 10 it normally means without frost. Then you are lucky and can grow a lot of things. Many things can still die during the cold winter due to strong winds and stuff like that. Protecting can help. Many plants will not only grow in the south of spain but the will grow VERY good (like avocado) so buy whatever they are selling and try your place out. If you want to test first then take some papaya seeds in the ground now and if they die during the winter then your area is frosty or close. I think papaya will never grow well outside in europe but it can stay alive. Thx for that link!! Im plannig maybe to take a trip :)

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2014, 09:13:31 PM »
Pretty much anything you see grown here in USDA zone 9, if you want to stay on the safe side. You can't assume Europe zone 10 is the same as USA zone 10 because of different rainfall pattern, less sun, and longer cold spell (the most classical example are coconuts, which grows fine in south Florida but are unheard of in the Mediterranean basin).
Of course anything has its own exception, and mangoes, for example, do grow very well in bot zone 10, even if they do grow better in USA because the increased sunshine duration.
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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 01:25:03 AM »
Wow, Zone 10 in Spain, the first word that comes to mind is everything. If you have the space, I'd be willing to try everything that we grow in my Zone 10 area in Miami, Florida, USA. I wasn't aware that there's a Zone 10 in Spain, that''s very cool to know. Best wishes for success in growing lots of great tropical fruit.
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frukt

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 02:39:43 AM »
I think the climate in southern europe is more similar to california then to florida. You have a lot more humidy in the peninsula of florida I think. Some books from australia is nice and the climate over there is also pretty similar I guess. There is also the thing about being more north and get less sun in the winter.

bangkok

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 06:32:19 AM »
We had a member here from Malaga if i recall correctly and he showed us loads of pic's from his huge garden. I can't find that thread anymore but you can grow a lot there.

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2014, 06:40:23 AM »
Zones are misleading and even Koppen climate classification is too general. It is better to check what the absolute and even mean winter minimums are in the place you are talking about and cross check against the cold tolerances of the species you are interested in.


phantomcrab

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 08:55:28 AM »
Quote
You can't assume Europe zone 10 is the same as USA zone 10 because of different rainfall pattern, less sun, and longer cold spell (the most classical example are coconuts, which grow fine in south Florida but are unheard of in the Mediterranean basin).
Quote
I think the climate in southern Europe is more similar to California than to Florida.
Quote
Zones are misleading and even Koppen climate classification is too general. It is better to check what the absolute and even mean winter minimums are in the place you are talking about and cross check against the cold tolerances of the species you are interested in.
True.
Southern California's climate is referred to as 'Mediterranean' - meaning southern Europe. When it gets cold in Florida, it is a transient event. Even fruiting a guanabana is marginal in Miami. I can't imagine one growing outdoors in mainland Spain. Cherimoyas do well there though.
Look at what is being grown in your area and base your plantings on that.
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siafu

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 09:33:19 AM »
Hello everyone.

Which tropicals can/are being grown in the zone 10 part of Europe?

I know that we can sometimes buy Keith mangos from Spain.

And it seems that this nursery in Malaga, spain, is selling guanabana, jaboticaba, sapodilla, Rollinia and lots of other tropicals: http://frutalestropicales.com/product.php?id_product=28

But do they have to be covered in winter? Or even grown in greenhouses?

I am very curious to know. :)

At my place, located in southern Portugal, also zone 10, I have fruiting outside,
without any protection, the following:

 Black sapote, Marula, Acerola, Canistel, Lychee, Longan, Guavas, Coffee, Avocado, Mango, White Sapote.

 I also have a unheated greenhouse (covered with fine netting) where more stuff can grow:

 Rollinia mucosa (fruiting),  Carambola (fruiting); mamey, green sapote, achachairu, mexican garcinia (blooming), genipap, mamoncillo (blooming), caimito (blooming) and a few others.


 Zone 10 should be only an indication. The duration of the cold (freezing or not) also determines what
 does well, barely survives or just plain dies.

 Zone 10 climate in Europe are dry subtropical climates that combine the cold season with the rainy season.
 Many tropical plants dislike this combination, contrary to the natural cycle they expect (warm + wet). They  may be able to take some cold, even a little freezing, but enduring 3 months of cold wet soil if often too much, even without experiencing any frost. One such example is Baobab. They just rot rather than freeze.

 A covered greenhouse (unheated) often helps a lot because the soil can stay warm and dry over winter,
 more closely mimicking the tropics.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 09:43:51 AM by siafu »
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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 09:40:08 AM »
Hello everyone.

Which tropicals can/are being grown in the zone 10 part of Europe?

I know that we can sometimes buy Keith mangos from Spain.

And it seems that this nursery in Malaga, spain, is selling guanabana, jaboticaba, sapodilla, Rollinia and lots of other tropicals: http://frutalestropicales.com/product.php?id_product=28

But do they have to be covered in winter? Or even grown in greenhouses?

I am very curious to know. :)

At my place, locate in southern Portugal, also zone 10. I have fruiting outside,
without any protection:

 Black sapote, Marula, Acerola, Canistel, Lychee, Longan, Guavas, Coffee, Avocado, Mango, White Sapote.



 I also have Rollinia mucosa,  Carambola
Hi! What mango trees do you grow? In my location i couldn't grow them... now i will try var. Gomera1.  ;D

siafu

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 09:50:21 AM »
Hello everyone.

Which tropicals can/are being grown in the zone 10 part of Europe?

I know that we can sometimes buy Keith mangos from Spain.

And it seems that this nursery in Malaga, spain, is selling guanabana, jaboticaba, sapodilla, Rollinia and lots of other tropicals: http://frutalestropicales.com/product.php?id_product=28

But do they have to be covered in winter? Or even grown in greenhouses?

I am very curious to know. :)

At my place, locate in southern Portugal, also zone 10. I have fruiting outside,
without any protection:

 Black sapote, Marula, Acerola, Canistel, Lychee, Longan, Guavas, Coffee, Avocado, Mango, White Sapote.



 I also have Rollinia mucosa,  Carambola
Hi! What mango trees do you grow? In my location i couldn't grow them... now i will try var. Gomera1.  ;D

I have ataulfo and sensation growing outside.

Still, mangos are tricky and require some attention.
They like to bloom and fruit themselves to death, when they should be trying to get some size and endurance in the first few years. I am also very limited by the nasty soil I have.

Other people in the area are able to grow mangos without too much effort, although
frost prone areas can kill a young mango.

The largest mangos around are just seedlings. Maybe you should try with several seedlings...


Sérgio Duarte
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Luisport

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 10:01:41 AM »
Last year i try Osteen and Kent. Both die in a relative protected places... my black sapote die too. Now i want to try pecan nut, Canistel, chico sapote, carambola, lucuma and acerola. Do you think there are anyone that it's not worth to try and spare some money? Thank's!  ;)

siafu

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 01:15:06 PM »
Last year i try Osteen and Kent. Both die in a relative protected places... my black sapote die too. Now i want to try pecan nut, Canistel, chico sapote, carambola, lucuma and acerola. Do you think there are anyone that it's not worth to try and spare some money? Thank's!  ;)

Pecans are very hardy.
Lucuma will probably work.

I believe the others are too tender.
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Luisport

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »
Last year i try Osteen and Kent. Both die in a relative protected places... my black sapote die too. Now i want to try pecan nut, Canistel, chico sapote, carambola, lucuma and acerola. Do you think there are anyone that it's not worth to try and spare some money? Thank's!  ;)

Pecans are very hardy.
Lucuma will probably work.

I believe the others are too tender.
Even chico sapote and acerola? My avocados jaboticadas and guabirobas are doing fine even without frost protection...  :)

Andersp90

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2014, 01:55:49 PM »
Thx for all the information so far! :)

Siafu, is Malaga a warmer area compared to where you live?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3703.0

If that guy can grow jackfruit and guanabana, shouldn't you be able to do so too?

Or is Malaga a sweet spot for tropical fruit growing??
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 01:58:05 PM by Andersp90 »
Kind regards Anders.

siafu

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2014, 02:37:06 PM »
Thx for all the information so far! :)

Siafu, is Malaga a warmer area compared to where you live?

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3703.0

If that guy can grow jackfruit and guanabana, shouldn't you be able to do so too?

Or is Malaga a sweet spot for tropical fruit growing??

On average, I would say Malaga and the southern Spanish coast from Almeria to Cadiz is
indeed a bit warmer than my location and S. Portugal, in general. It is also drier in winter
which I believe matters even more.

Still, that does not mean that growing tropical fruits there is a sure thing. Some plants manage to survive
but its not clear yet if they will ever fruit. As far as I know, guanabana is borderline in Malaga, with a
real danger it will drop developing fruits during the winter months. For many other species there's still
too little experience to know how they will behave.

Sicily and S. Italy should also have fine spots. How good I don't know, because we have less contact with them. I do know that they are establishing lychee and mango plantings there so their conditions are comparable to S. Spain, or maybe even better...
Crete and Cyprus should also have fine spots.

If you consider the Canary Islands as part of Europe then that's the prime spot. Only the most tender
stuff that demands high humidity fails. Bread fruit, for instance grows and fruits in the Canary Islands.
Unfortunately, water is scarce and expensive it seems.

Sérgio Duarte
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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2014, 08:03:55 PM »
I think the climate in southern europe is more similar to california then to florida.

For sure you can't find anything similar to Florida in Europe, but i don't think climate are really comparable. Even if I admit that i don't know California climate that well, i don't think it must be so similar to southern europe.
First thing that should be taken in account is the different sunshine duration:



This is important because as people have already told, during winter the biggest damages are made by the prolonged cold damp climate, and people living in places with more sunshine can get healthier plants. Moreover the summer temperature can be completly different: USDA zones fails in giving that kind of information.
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA1193]
[url]http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA1193
[/url]
http://www.worldweatheronline.com/Malaga-weather-averages/Andalucia/ES.aspx
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frukt

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2014, 01:41:16 AM »
Im growing many mangoes: Manzanillo, keitt, kent, irwin, ataulfo, sensation and osteen. I had also Tommy atkins but he died this spring when it was raining a lot. I hear that loosing tommy was not that big of loss. I will look up places with better drainage when I plant in the future. The keitt is accually in his third summer here now. Surviving the first summer whitout any attention. But he doesnt look that good accually  :-[

By the way, should I remove fruits from my trees, they are still young?

Nice with your list siafu, your growing inspire me! I was alomst ordering from canarius.com some days ago and I was looking both on red mamey and mamey apple. Finally I didnt order since my local nursery got some new stuff like lucuma. But its nice to se you try and I hope it will give you fruit!

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2014, 02:19:59 PM »
Hi!

I live in Portugal, zone 10a but I think it is not like California, here the temperatures go bellow 0ºC, and the wind from the Atlantic is to fear. I lost my papaya with 6 years, in a sheltered location. Other plants get the foliage burnt by the wind and don't flower. It is unthinkable to leave garcinia, myrciaria ot young eugenia in the open during Autumn and Winter. They are slow growers and damage can take years to recover.

João

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 10:30:11 PM »
Hi!

I live in Portugal, zone 10a but I think it is not like California, here the temperatures go bellow 0ºC, and the wind from the Atlantic is to fear. I lost my papaya with 6 years, in a sheltered location. Other plants get the foliage burnt by the wind and don't flower. It is unthinkable to leave garcinia, myrciaria ot young eugenia in the open during Autumn and Winter. They are slow growers and damage can take years to recover.

João

I would say the same here. I live around Los Angeles and the temperature does dip below 0C on rare occassions. But it does happen. Maybe for a few hours, but not prolonged.  Areas around the coast are generally safer when it comes to freezes. During the winter San Diego is 3 or 4 degrees warmer than los angeles. That 3 or 4 degrees is a big difference because temperatures sometimes hover just above freezing during winter in SoCal. There are a few 10b areas. I think plantmaps lists 11a. But I believe that its  a bit outdated as compared to the USDA hardiness zones.
http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-california-usda-plant-zone-hardiness-map.php

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2014, 09:06:12 AM »
The impression I get about Southern California is that the only really 11a zones are a tiny area of Santa Monica, Palos Verdes, and Catalina Islands, and various microclimates in well-situated hillsides all over the region.  I've definitely heard of people who have never seen frost in their yard in decades.  But those are pretty rare.

We have a bit of the same in Northern California, but shifted down a few degrees.  San Francisco and parts of Oakland are listed as 10b and some parts of these cities almost never see frost, but San Francisco gets almost no heat either so it's not great for growing.  Otherwise the rest of the 10a zones here do usually see one night of 30 F every winter.

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2014, 10:14:14 AM »
Im growing many mangoes: Manzanillo, keitt, kent, irwin, ataulfo, sensation and osteen. I had also Tommy atkins but he died this spring when it was raining a lot. I hear that loosing tommy was not that big of loss. I will look up places with better drainage when I plant in the future. The keitt is accually in his third summer here now. Surviving the first summer whitout any attention. But he doesnt look that good accually  :-[

By the way, should I remove fruits from my trees, they are still young?

Nice with your list siafu, your growing inspire me! I was alomst ordering from canarius.com some days ago and I was looking both on red mamey and mamey apple. Finally I didnt order since my local nursery got some new stuff like lucuma. But its nice to se you try and I hope it will give you fruit!

The lord works in mysterious ways! ;)
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frukt

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 12:04:14 AM »
he sure does! What do you think he meant by taking  my manzanillo these autum? ;)

No no, the lord is good to me, I had my first super mango some weeks ago, really nice and big - kent. And many mangos are givng new sprouts now. I live just in the foot of a big mountain. And here it didnt get frosty but just some km up it does. But... the areas thats good to grow exotic stuff is the areas south of this mountain. We get protected from the cold northern winds and in the sunny days its gets warmer here, in its stays longer in the nghts.

its important to look for a protected place.

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Re: What can be grown in Europe, zone 10?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2014, 03:45:28 AM »
Zones are misleading and even Koppen climate classification is too general. It is better to check what the absolute and even mean winter minimums are in the place you are talking about and cross check against the cold tolerances of the species you are interested in.
Forgot the source, but one of the major flaws on zone calculation is that it is based on calendar years, not winter season.  That is, a temp on Dec 31 and then one minute later it is Jan 1, counts as two years.  Not so much of an issue for the southern hemisphere.  Another flaw is that it is a mean of years,  instead of a low of years. Who cares if the average or mean temp won't kill your tree, you really want to know what is the temp every 10 years or X years that will kill your tree.
Sunset zones are a piece of puzzle, nothing is perfect, but a guideline.