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Messages - shaneatwell

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1051
I think I found it.

http://www.citrolima.com.br/bulletin/bulletin3b.htm

Quote
MULTIPLE ROOTSTOCKS    The practice of grafting additional rootstocks to a tree is called inarching and was developed hundreds of years ago to give plants longevity.  Its commercial utilization in large scale was pioneered by Brazilian citrus growers to prevent tree losses caused by the disease Citrus Sudden Death. Citrolima nursery trees now have 2 rootstocks as a standard. The objective is to maintain the excellent qualities of our most common rootstock, Rangpur lime ( broad soil adaptability, rapid initial development, drought resistance, early bearing and high productivity), combined with disease resistance (foot rot, nematodes, blight, sudden death) of another rootstock like Swingle citrumelo. Inarching of additional rootstocks is utilized in some areas of the world to attain more vigorous and long living fruit trees. Citrus trees with 2 rootstocks survive Citrus Sudden Death even on the susceptible rootstock Rangpur lime. There are orange trees over 100 years old that lived through foot rot and who knows what else by the use of the multiple rootstocks technique. The best timing for adding a second rootstock is during the nursery tree stage. Costs are lower and successful rates higher. Citrolima developed special techniques that allow for the addition of a second rootstock to its citrus nursery trees efficiently and economically.

1052
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First taste of custard apple
« on: February 06, 2014, 10:04:56 PM »
From pictures online, I'm guessing Honeyheart or Pierce.

1053
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First taste of custard apple
« on: February 05, 2014, 12:20:30 AM »
Would love to know the variety.

1054
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First taste of custard apple
« on: February 04, 2014, 11:27:52 PM »
the one i didn't eat yet:



reason i thought it wasn't cherimoya is that i haven't had that taste before and the store (Miramar Cash & Carry) had it labelled custard apple.

1055
Tropical Fruit Discussion / First taste of custard apple
« on: February 04, 2014, 09:09:08 PM »
couldn't place the taste but after my daughter said 'that's really familiar' i thought about it some more and realized it was fruit loops!

loved it.

nm. pretty sure it was cherimoya (cherimola?) not reticulata.

1056
March 7 better for me

1057
I like the low branching on that Jywl.

1058
I'd like to come. I think March 15th is the only Saturday I could make. More flexible on fridays.

1059
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Possible dwarf mango.
« on: January 29, 2014, 11:49:42 AM »
There's a difference between a runt and a potential dwarfing root stock.  Runts are quite common with some mango cultivars.  Maha Chanok is a prolific runt seedling producer.  Also poly embryonic seedlings are often runts. Runts have no vigor and are poor choices for root stocks as they just don't grow.  A dwarfing root stock is one that is vigorous and strong, yet doesn't get much height. There can be a fine line between the two and it is probably too early to draw a conclusion that what you have is or isn't a potential dwarfing root stock.

That would have been my guess. My in-ground manila seedlings for example are small and weak and even variable in their weakness. My 'runt' kent is small, but has just as thick a trunk and as dark leaves and as many leaves as the other 4 kents that grew much taller. Unlike the pictured seedlings, where the smaller one is just smaller in all regards including trunk thickness.

1060
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bacon avocado trees in South Florida
« on: January 28, 2014, 11:17:11 AM »
Nice site! Love the reviews.

1061
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Possible dwarf mango.
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:28:31 PM »
But isn't dwarfing good for commercial production? Or are runts the ones that are short, but also small leaved, sickly, leaf burned? Cause my runt has lots of big healthy leaves, just short internodes and overall height.

Dwarfing is even better for backyard growers.  Seedlings can vary in size, shape, height a lot when they are small.  Most polyembryonic seedlings have a dominant surrounded by "runts" that potentially can be true to type.  Its really hard to tell how large a tree will become at the early stages, if it were breeding would be a lot easier!  Your runt may in fact be a dwarf, or even a giant, no way to tell.  Either way, healthy is good! Keep it growing if you have space!

If seedling size or vigor isn't a predictor of adult growth, why cull the runts? Must be at least a partial predictor?

Based on your comments, I think I'll leave a couple seedlings that I had planned to cull for leaf burn.

1062
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Possible dwarf mango.
« on: January 27, 2014, 04:18:26 PM »
But isn't dwarfing good for commercial production? Or are runts the ones that are short, but also small leaved, sickly, leaf burned? Cause my runt has lots of big healthy leaves, just short internodes and overall height.

1063
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Possible dwarf mango.
« on: January 27, 2014, 01:00:21 PM »
A lot of planted mango seeds are slow developing.  I have about 150 in 1 gallon pots that I went through this weekend, I disposed of about 30 "runts".

Of my in-ground seedlings, the runt was the only one that made it through December/January without leaf burn.

1064
I got my Jaboticaba from Papaya Tree Nursery, which is much closer to you than me. Got a great looking, largish (6') tree for a decent price. Its not a named cultivar, but I'm pretty confident it'll be a good entry level jaboticaba :)

White Sapote is much easier to find, including named cultivars. I only had to call 3 nurseries before finding my Suebelle. Its about the healthiest looking tree I have. Guessing it loves clay, or at least doesn't care.

Tim Thompson has just released half a dozen new Mangoes for Southern California. He posts here as mangoprofessor. Timotoyo is also his but I've heard was kinda released by accident or misunderstanding. The new ones have been available on a limited basis as preorders. I don't know that any have been delivered. I don't have the one I ordered through CRFG yet. I'd send him a PM or submit a query on his website, socalplantbreeders. From what he's said, there will be many more coming. He still has newly fruiting trees every year from his decades old project. Should check out his grafting videos as well.

1065
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What so special About an avacado?
« on: January 26, 2014, 09:13:00 PM »
There was Holiday at the scion exchange, probably from Julie Fink.

1066
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mexican Avocado leaf smell
« on: January 26, 2014, 09:06:51 PM »
Got myself a Mexicola from HD for grafting. Crushed some leaves and I don't get anise or licorice, smells more like cilantro to me. That just my nose?

1067
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Looking for mulberry cuttings
« on: January 26, 2014, 09:00:52 PM »
I have a few sticks of Kaester.

1068
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Maluma : New avocado variety
« on: January 26, 2014, 08:14:19 PM »
Look forward to seeing it in California some day, if only in the commercial orchards and grocery store.

Sidenote: SA was a Dutch colony for a long time. Believe the Dutch have been there for >350 yrs.

1069
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Maluma : New avocado variety
« on: January 25, 2014, 08:31:01 PM »

1070
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What so special About an avacado?
« on: January 25, 2014, 03:29:27 PM »
I have not seen avocado scion at the Northern California scion exchanges. I think if there are 4-5 table of different avocado cultivars, it is probably the best opportunity in the world to have all that variety available in the same place. And what was said about the Avocado being an absolute staple of the vegetarian diet makes it invaluable in that regard.

You should check out the latest issue of the CRFG magazine. The main article is on avocados from Norcal.

1071
2. La Verne is experimenting with Turpentine rootstock.
Manila seedling is currently used for rootstock.  I was told that LaVerne uses the largest/healthiest sprout for rootstock of grafted varieties.  From literature, I recall that the largest sprout tends to be the zygote and not the clone.  I hope they don’t do this with the plants they sell as Manila.

Floridians have used Turpentine and Californians Manilla. You will find a rare California Mango grower that will recommend Turpentine, but not many.

I've been conducting my own mini experiment on seedlings in my heavy clay soil and I can tell you that Manila seedlings (or at least what's sold as manila in the asian markets) do not do well in my soil (0/6). After 6 months they're scraggly, tip burned or just puny. The Kent seedlings on the other hand have grown well, thickened up and half have survived the winter (so far) with only minor or no leaf burn (6 of 8). My lone Haden seedling pushed up thick and dark green like a Kent, but then hasn't grown anymore since the 1st 4 leaves. Based on this I'm wondering how Manila got to be so popular in California. Perhaps more customers have sandy soil then clay?

1072
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: San Diego CRFG members
« on: January 24, 2014, 11:41:21 PM »
Well that was fun. Got myself some pinkerton, stewart and edranol avocado wood as well as some plum rootstock and a grape called blueberry. Nice to see Rtreid there.

There were about 6 tables full of scions: avocado, figs, grapes, mulberries, stonefruits... don't remember what else. Most variety among peaches and avocados. Pretty good attendance too. At least twice normal.

Now to grafting.

1073
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya flower
« on: January 24, 2014, 11:45:52 AM »
Flowers are out of focus. Do look to be male, but keep in mind that a bisexual plant can throw male flowers depending on growing conditions and stresses. And aren't the panicles on a true male much longer? I have a bisexual papaya that's been pushing mostly male flowers since it got cold.

1074
Get your Jaboticaba going now. You'll regret it if you wait for 3yrs before starting :) Passionfruit? Other citrus like grapefruit or pomelo? You might want to hold off on the Timotoyo and get one of the newer Mangos the professor has just released.

If you're looking for other hedge type plants, the syzigium are nice. My favorite is the rose apple.

1075
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Heirloom Trees?
« on: January 24, 2014, 11:34:46 AM »
Most of citrus varieties (there are only very few exceptions, like for example citrus grandis - pomelo) can produce  nucellar seedlings, which are as you said in fact clones of the mother plant.

and by the way:  we recognize phenotype and genotype! . So, I do not believe that seedling from heirloom tree is necessary identical (clone)  to its grandparent, because  genes are influenced by growing conditions for each generation.

Yes, there are fruit trees that produce clones, most citrus and asian mangos being the two most obvious. Even more difficult to produce self-crosses (how would you even find them?) in these cases and less reason to do so.

I think what you're trying to say in that last sentence is that even clones will grow differently, which is true. I believe plant breeders propagate multiple lines in parallel to protect themselves from this.

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