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Messages - nicolasm

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: August 06, 2017, 03:14:29 PM »
Quote from: Ilya11 on August 06, 2017, 06:51:01 AM
It is important to note that we do not have the original Citsuma , but  only grafted plants.
The rooted stem cuttings could produce roots either directly from cambium cells (L3) or from callus  that potentially could involve cells from any layer.

What i've understood is that root tissue is L3, not that it comes from cambium (L3).

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: August 06, 2017, 02:54:51 AM »
For L1 = juice i'm not so sure.
It seems that L1 is juice sac. I think juice is mostly L1 but can be somewhat modified by other layers (like sugar and acidity level, quoted in the paper). Maybe L2 = satsuma is important to be as close as possible to satsuma flavor. But color of rind and juice is L1, so i guess it is sure that L1 is satsuma (i let you confirm, as i'm a complete beginner with citsuma, satsuma and poncirus).

I guess that when you say F2 and F3 it means L2 and L3. Unfortunatly tree roots are pure L3. Other layers are present when roots are not true root but modified organs (blackberry, potatoes, mint...)

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: August 05, 2017, 02:19:11 PM »
Source of L1 = juice :
Quote
In the citrus fruit, the first germ layer L1 produces
the juice sacs of the fruit and the epidermis of the
pericarp, while L2 produces seeds, segment walls, the
hypoderm and the mesocarp of the pericarp, and L3
the vascular bundles (Cameron et al., 1964; Fost &
Krug, 1942; Kuhara, 1988).

Interactions between different genotypic tissues in citrus graft chimeras
Jinmei Zhou et  al.

Quote
It means that among the roots adventices we might find many PMP and few MMP. Just the same as if the origin is PMP, because the L1 is dropped off.
In the first hypothesis (PMP) the majority should be identical to the origin and in the second  hypothesis (MMP) the majority should be different from the origin.

I dont understand your phrase. Root tissue is pure L3 in trees (unlike in some rhizomes and some other cases) so any root adventices should be pure poncirus.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: August 05, 2017, 01:26:51 AM »
Hi,
i'm an invidicual breeder interested by chimera, so i've came across the Cistuma Prague. Hope i can get a plant this fall and start playing with it. I'm new to citrus as i want only trees that could be planted on my property (-15°C min), so Prague seems to be able to make the deal :)

My hypothesis is that Prague is a SSP chimera (L1/L2 satsuma and L3 poncirus).

L3 : Rose/Blackberry thorns are from L1 but this is a different kind of thorns. "Studying" different chimeras between medlar and hawthorn, i came to the conclusion that spines are from L3. To test this hypothesis, one could root Prague, and make a root cutting to root. The plant should be all L3 and thus should be poncirus.

L2 : Seeds are from F2. As Prague seems to carry few seeds, it would lead to S2 = satsuma. Seedlings should be pure sastuma.
Also L2 + L3 gives leaf form, so if both L2 and L3 where poncirus, i guess leaves would be trifoliate.

L1 : Fruit juice is L1, so from taste it is Satsuma

To my knowledge there is no way to try to mix layers of the chimera to try to get new layer associations

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