Author Topic: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!  (Read 53759 times)

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #175 on: May 29, 2018, 03:49:21 PM »
No smell I've ever noticed, no.  Also, while the sheen looks superficially similar to oil, when you touch it you'll notice that it's actually bacterial "film", rather than a liquid layer. It sticks together and you can move it around; it doesn't swirl or anything like a liquid.
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Finca La Isla

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #176 on: May 29, 2018, 04:31:55 PM »
It’s possible to find small iron chunks in such a bog.  That is how early iron was 'mined'.

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #177 on: May 29, 2018, 04:43:03 PM »
A long time ago, while on the big island, a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?
We work with soil challenges here in CR, but not like that.
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.  Lots of the best coffee growing areas and vegetable production is highly exposed to ash.
Suerte,
Peter
Softer lava = a'a lava. Yes what you describe is what i've been doing for the last quarter century. But it involves a lot of time and expense = Easier said than done. On the harder pahoeoe lava it is also possible, but even more expense and 10x more time, and plants never do as well on it.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #178 on: May 29, 2018, 04:48:13 PM »
I wish I had more rock at my place. I found maybe a few dozen 1 foot diameter rocks. They have tons of rock on the west side of Kauai.  I would love to make some retaining walls, walking paths, privacy fences, landscaping etc. I have gone so far to lava rock concrete stamps (almost cheaper to get cement than buy and truck rock).  Then I think about the extreme opposite (i.e. all rock and no dirt), and it is scary if you are trying to grow stuff. Not sure which problem is worse, paying for rock or paying for dirt. I think I would rather pay for rock, then every time I dig I hit rock.  I was visiting someone in Kona and had to bare root the trees, and they were so excited to have the soil from the pots. I had this look  :o being from Kauai, there is so much dirt.

This thread has been an eye opener, especially the last few posts about the different types of flows. Thanks!
Kauai has a lot of soil because it is the oldest of the Hawaiian islands (except for little Niihau). All that soil is what caused the flooding in Hanalei area, so it has a little bit of a downside also. We never have flooding here. But yes that soil, even though red soil, and very slippery clay soil, is nice.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #179 on: May 29, 2018, 04:53:36 PM »
Old lava flows more likely to be flowed over again. Elevation does not matter much if the lava is all layed down flat.
Typical pioneer species depend on type of lava. On a'a it is ohia, but they are very slow growing and are going through a lot of disease problems lately. Pahoehoe lava is extremely hard stuff, and takes very long time to  re establish plants on that.

My experience with lava flows here is that lava flows in bands; each flow creates a wall that directs subsequent flows to its side.  Only when it's directed a large enough  amount of lava through side paths (to the point where they're interfering with its ability to move downhill) does it then get the ability to flow over the original, more central paths.  But I suppose it depends on your lava properties and topography.  We tend to get really thick a'a flows here, dozens of meters near the edges and potentially hundreds near the craters (that said, pahoehoe happens - I've even got some old "fossilized" pahoehoe on my land - but is much rarer).

It's harder for me to make colonization comparisons because up here, the first thing to colonize - everywhere - is moss  ;)  Big thick blankets like pillows.  It doesn't care whether it's pahoehoe or aa.

Quote from: Finca La Isla
a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?

Ehhhh..... technically possible, but I'd think that would cost a fortune.  I mean, that's how they build roads through it here, but they're not cheap. A'a is nasty stuff - hard to flatten, but very irregular so it's hard to fill too. Sometimes it's worse than others - I once walked on one flow front that would best be described as walking on a mix of broken vases and razor blades.  It wears down with time, though - but it's always this chunky, hard, bouldery mess.

Quote
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.

Ironically we get that too here  ;)  Volcanoes that erupt through glaciers make ash even though they're basaltic, as the water makes it explosive. Our lava is also sometimes abnormally gassy (read about the Laki eruption for a really bad example. And while we're overwhelmingly basaltic, we have a small proportion of our volcanoes that are predominantly andesitic / rhyolitic (the most famous being Hekla and Askja), so they're explosive ashy things similar to what you're used to. It takes some interesting geology to get that in the middle of an ocean; it's secondary rhyolite, caused by basaltic magma separating out over time into an mafic fraction and a felsic fraction  :)  Hekla was thought in Europe in the Middle Ages to be a gate to Hell, and was often drawn in terrifying fashion on old maps; it had on several occasions created eruptions so ashy that they dusted the mainland.
If you look at maps you can see that the current lava fllow is in large part following the same path as 1955 flow. Magma from deep below comes up old cracks, and they really don't care much about a few extra feet of elevation to push through after coming up through miles of rock.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 04:56:14 PM by fruitlovers »
Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #180 on: May 30, 2018, 03:44:02 PM »
In terms of where it emerges, I fully agree.  Once it's on the surface, however, it flows like a river - until it hardens.  Then that hardened flow becomes a barrier to subsequent flows - until it's built such significant barriers everywhere that the easiest path is back over the original flow.

In terms of where it's going to emerge, though, that can be bloody anywhere.  The sort of dikes that feed these fissure eruptions are far more massive than most people realize.   Most most times when there's magma movement all it does is make a dike, it never even  breaks the surface.  It's like the magma chamber is erupting into the ground itself.  There's a great animated map of how the lava in the Bárðarbunga eruption moved from the magma chamber (lower left) dozens of kilometers underground, simply by plotting the earthquakes that occurred as the rock broke in its path:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PTEDxrIRoM

It ripped a channel up to a dozen meters wide, several kilometers tall, and dozens of kilometers long.  It could have broken through to the surface at any time, or never.  But obviously, once it does, that becomes an easier path to move rather than breaking more rock (so long as the rift is big enough for the flow rate), and it flows downhill from that point.

Oh great, now I'm going through all the old videos from the eruptions... I forgot about the fire tornadoes it made!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 03:56:47 PM by KarenRei »
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fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2018, 07:32:16 PM »
Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.



Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.
Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2018, 07:50:38 PM »
Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.



Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.

Ouch.  :(

Wish she would just calm down and stay focused on flowing into the sea...  :Þ



Are you getting any Pele's hair?  If you've got that much height and wind, that sounds like conditions for generating it.
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HIfarm

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2018, 07:56:43 PM »
Yikes!  Are you on a PV system?  I can't imagine that raining rocks would do the panels much good.

Glad to hear that alternate routes are in the works.  Pele is really making a mess of access roads down there.

Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.



Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2018, 07:57:27 PM »
Yes some Pele's hair (which is long golden colored needle like glass) fell in Pahoa, but not much. None here where i live, and i'm a lot closer to it.
The flows are indeed going toward the ocean. Now Vacationland, Kapoho,  areas are in dire danger. I think a large chunk of the coastline is going to be flowed over. There are very  large volumes coming out of fissure 8 right now. All those areas are being evacuated. The roads there are getting cut off and people that stay will be trapped in. Coaslines are particularly dangerous places to be because ofcourse all the lave flows down to them. And worse yet, due to flat topography at the coast the lava will form large lakes there and cover very large areas.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2018, 08:06:48 PM »
Yikes!  Are you on a PV system?  I can't imagine that raining rocks would do the panels much good.

Glad to hear that alternate routes are in the works.  Pele is really making a mess of access roads down there.

Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.



Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.
As you might imagin, in order to be carried coupe of miles in the wind the rocks are very light and fluffy. Yes i'm on solar. No they don't hurt the panels at all. Real problem affecting solar is that the plume from the fissures is blocking out most of the sunlight. It's dark here a lot of the time. So solar is pretty useless right now.
Chunks of rock also a problem for our water catchment. Imagine if sharp rock gets into our water pump?  No piped in water here. Just disconnected our catchment from the roof. Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.
The dozers are finally working on Chain of Craters road through Volcano Nationa park. That will give us an emergency route out if necessary. They only need to flatten .7 miles that were flowed over. Sanford's trucking also created a detour through their property that allows us to bypass all the steel plates on highway 130 if necessary. They did it in just one day...bless their souls!
Oscar

HIfarm

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2018, 08:13:10 PM »
Sounds like you are making the best of a bad situation, Oscar.  Good luck!

From the latest map from the county, it looks like the lava is screaming (by Hawaii standards) towards Kapoho.

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #187 on: May 31, 2018, 08:41:49 PM »
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
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fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #188 on: May 31, 2018, 08:52:17 PM »
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
i think closer to the lava flow water catchments are at 4 pH.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #189 on: May 31, 2018, 09:35:03 PM »
My new very high heat resistant plants. We test them all on site right before we sell them. Here is one of my demonstarions. See it on my FB timeline:
https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers
 


Oscar

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2018, 05:25:03 AM »
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
i think closer to the lava flow water catchments are at 4 pH.

Maybe it's time to take up growing rooibos?  ;)

Meanwhile...



Have they evacuated Kapoho?  Because it's almost cut off now, if not already.  :(

I don't know the local topography, but if the 1960 flow raised the local elevation under it then I'd expect the current flow to go south and/or north of it.  But I sure hope that it can just go over it...

Also not liking the expansion on the north side of the flow near Leilani.  If the flow keeps walling off the path to the north and this lasts long enough it could eventually push into Nanawale, unless the local topography is unsupportive.  And of course if the current flows get too restricted a new flow could break out in Leilani itself.  ... sigh...

ED: I see the USGS image has updated. They show the flow front tracking south of the 1960 flow, like I was afraid of  :(  I'm also looking at a topo map now and it indeed looks like the 1960 flow is a bit higher... and that Kapoho itself would be the easiest route to the sea  :(
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 09:00:06 AM by KarenRei »
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Bush2Beach

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2018, 10:53:28 AM »
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.

KarenRei

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2018, 11:27:23 AM »
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.

Saw an article yesterday about PGV that said that so far they'd only lost two wells, a warehouse with a drilling rig, and an electrical substation - but not the expensive stuff (the turbine houses, etc). Apparently they're not ready to write it off yet (they're refusing to lay off employees).  Of course, given how hemmed in it is, pretty much any lava moment would wipe out what remains of the site.  And there's a lot of skepticism that they'd ever be able to reopen even if the remaining buildings survive.



As of yesterday morning they were still able to get in from the east. Obviously nobody's getting in anymore without a helicopter.

ED: Wow, the live map where that image came from is great:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.491261657256736%2C-154.84304180370987&z=15
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:44:13 AM by KarenRei »
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HIfarm

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #193 on: June 02, 2018, 01:47:00 PM »
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #194 on: June 02, 2018, 02:08:30 PM »
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John

She's been erupting into two separate drainage basins, which is more than a little annoying. 

Too soon to say for Nanawale, but I certainly wouldn't be sleeping easy if I lived there  :(   More immediately, there's a fair number of homes and businesses on the north side of  the 1960 flow directly in the firing line.

Such a bloody mess  :(
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fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #195 on: June 03, 2018, 01:27:28 AM »
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John
Pele can shut off just as mysteriously as she comes on. Look for example at the 2014 flow. It went 14 miles and then shut off only 400 ft. from Pahoa town. Is that a miracle? Look also at 1955 flow, headed straight towards Vacationland and then shut off less than 1/2 mile from the coast. Is that a miracle? Whatever you want to call it i hope it happens again because Kapoho Beach lots is really a beautiful and special area. It is the very first area i lived in when i first got here. Right now it sure doesn't look good.
Oscar

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #196 on: June 03, 2018, 01:37:08 AM »
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John

She's been erupting into two separate drainage basins, which is more than a little annoying. 

Too soon to say for Nanawale, but I certainly wouldn't be sleeping easy if I lived there  :(   More immediately, there's a fair number of homes and businesses on the north side of  the 1960 flow directly in the firing line.

Such a bloody mess  :(
Nanawale is in zero danger right now, unless a new fissure system opens up, which is also highly unlikely. The existing fissure system cannot flow towards Nanawale. it will move just east of Nanawale and possibly enter the coast just east of Hawaiian Beaches. If it does that it would cut off another vital road, Beach Government road, which was just paved last week so it could be used as an evacuation route.
The biggest problem right now is not homes destroyed, but access roads destroyed. There will be more homes that are isolated than homes that are destroyed. The Kapoho and Vacationaland area have over 500 homes and all that area is evacuated and the homes are completely unreachable, except by helicopter or boat. Unfortunately there is no dock in that area and reaching anything by boat is extremely dangerous.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #197 on: June 03, 2018, 01:41:07 AM »
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.
Most of the plant is still there. Only 2 wells were flowed over, but the main access road into the plant is flowed over. Also all the other wells were killed in preparation for the lava flow. All the connecting power lines, posts,, and infrastructure are destroyed. The main road leading to the plant, highway 132, is destroyed. This plant is deader than dead.
Oscar

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #198 on: June 03, 2018, 01:43:55 AM »
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600

This is a story about it in the Australian news. I hope there isn't too many casualties Oscar even if it suddenly stops now I guess there will be a fair period of recuperation.

fruitlovers

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Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
« Reply #199 on: June 03, 2018, 03:21:12 AM »
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600

This is a story about it in the Australian news. I hope there isn't too many casualties Oscar even if it suddenly stops now I guess there will be a fair period of recuperation.
If by casualties you mean deaths, there have been zero deaths after a whole month of this going on. It's not a threat to lives, it's much more of a threat to livelihoods, houses, properties, possesions, infrastructure. The folks in charge have done a great job of keeping everyone out of harm's way. Only one person so far was hurt by a freak lava rock ejected from a lava fountain. Recently a person commited suicide. But that was due to separation from spouse as well as their losing their house at same time. So yes the psychological tolls add up. There is a lot of stress. But overall the community is handling it remarkably well. There will be a very long period of rebuilding and readjustment also when this eruption cycle ends.
Oscar

 

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