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Messages - C24mccain

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26
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango flowers and frost
« on: February 07, 2021, 07:04:39 AM »
Last year we had a night where we hit 31* in January and my mangoes were in full open bloom. I pondered pruning flowers off but I saw no visual issues with the pannicles. The frost was not as bad in last year's freeze. My trees set a lot of fruit last year and did well except coconut cream. This year the pannicles are only pushed out a few inches so I assume they are more protected not being open yet. If the situation looked worse I would prune them off as I believe the odds of another bloom would be high, at least for my area in Lakeland.

27
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Effectiveness of artificial Breeze for frost protection
« on: February 06, 2021, 10:20:25 PM »
Quote from: Galatians522 on February 06, 2021, 10:10:52 PM
Sounds like you had a much better plan than I did. Of course, my excuse is that I was only 16 at the time.

Ice is very safe and effective for some tropicals (obviously not going to work for Soursop and other ultra tropicalss). When we have all our pumps running, the temperature of the property can rise 3 degrees in 30 minutes even away from where the water is being applied. It does have some limitations and reqires an initial investment, but irrigation in the dry season and a good nights sleep in the winter are well worth it in my opinion.

I have pondered an overhead irrigation system for protection but haven't really looked into it other than the one shower I created over a jackfruit tree. I wonder if I could create something with a water pump I put in my pond and  use to irrigate my trees? It puts out 3000 gallons an hour which I assume is way more than I would need. I'm going to do some investigating on this as it may be something I could setup for next year.

28
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Effectiveness of artificial Breeze for frost protection
« on: February 06, 2021, 09:59:37 PM »
Quote from: Galatians522 on February 06, 2021, 09:52:17 PM
Many years ago they used giant fans to protect the commercial orange groves around here. They looked like the wind mills that generate electric power out west and you can still see them in a few old groves. As mentioned, they only worked under certain conditions and fell out of favor about the time microjet irrigation became common. After many years of trying different methods of frost protection, I have concluded that water is the easiest. Many years ago (when I was young and foolish) I used open fire and a fan to direct the heat into the tree canopy. It worked ok, except that I had to sleep out there so I could stoke the fire every couple hours. I should say that it worked ok until I caught some leaf litter under the tree on fire and awoke to a blazing inferno. I got the fire put out before it spread very far or did too much damage to my tree, but that was the end of that method of frost protection.  :o

If you can afford a shallow well and some microjet sprinklers, that is the easiest means of frost protection that I have found. Often, people do not think that it will work,but it does. In an experiment that a friend did with pineapples, plants that were iced experienced less cold damage than plants that were covered. You turn the water on at 35 or 36 and go to bed. In the morning you turn it off when it has melted the ice off the tree. It is also cheaper than running a lot of incandescent bulbs and fans.

The University of Florida has some very helpful info out there about how much water it takes to protect certain crops from freezing based on the temperature and wind conditions. Since peach blossoms freeze at about the same temperature as Mango and Lychee it is highly applicable.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hos.ifas.ufl.edu/stonefruit/production/frost-protection/%23:~:text%3DPeach%2520flower%2520buds%2520that%2520have,protection%2520can%2520prevent%2520such%2520damage.&ved=2ahUKEwjJ4vu94dbuAhWwwVkKHQQQBVEQFjABegQIAhAE&usg=AOvVaw3yjUITjkx8txRJIbfpgYWT

In my use of burn barrels a few years ago I was afraid of fire so I kept a hose with me and watered the ground every couple of hours. I would sometimes snooze for about 45 minutes but I used my alarm to wake me up as I had to add wood to burn barrels. Obviously using fire is risky and anyone doing so should take precautions.

29
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Effectiveness of artificial Breeze for frost protection
« on: February 06, 2021, 09:54:09 PM »
I've pondered the use of a fan as well. In my case my mangoes have gotten to big to cover. The big freezes we had a few years ago I used burn barrels to save them but now they are even bigger. I have pondered using a fan to direct hot air from a burn barrel into the tree because most of the heat is lost going straight up. I assume a properly placed fan could blow the heat into the tree and protect the higher areas. I haven't quite figured out how I would do it but I may experiment with it someday. I would probably only do it if temps were going to be under 29 for 3-4 hours or more. Using burn barrels is a good amount of work and you could be up most of not all night but I think it's worth it on the rare once or twice severe cold event we get every few years. I also have some smudge pots but I haven't had to use them yet other than tests. Need to figure out how to suspend a fan 5-7 feet off ground that will blow air over the burn barrel pushing the heat into the tree. The fan would be a few feet away from the barrel so you would have: fan, space, barrel, space, tree. Maybe the fan could go between the barrel and tree sucking the warm air into the tree? Not sure. I don't think the fan alone would be enough, a heat source is probably needed. I'll attach some videos I have from the freeze we had a few years ago as well as a test I did with a smudge pot a while back and a shower setup over my jackfruit tree. Maybe it will generate some ideas.

https://youtu.be/EJ6-mF9z73Y 2018 freeze, burn barrels

https://youtu.be/tSk72hiqufo smudge pot

https://youtu.be/cRIk16Z7970 shower

30
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 9b Kissimmee River Valley effect
« on: February 06, 2021, 08:46:47 AM »
Quote from: Galatians522 on February 06, 2021, 08:10:27 AM
I have witnessed 4 things that affect micro climate in this area of the state. 1). Proximity to water, 2). Elevation in relation to your surroundings (only durring still freezes), 3). Tree cover (holds heat longer), 4). Extent of urbanization.

The final one is the least discussed, but it does have a major effect. Asphalt paving and concrete buildings hold heat that they release all night long and thousands of people running their heat create a "bubble" of warmth.

During this last freeze there was as much as a 9 degree difference between rural Avon Park in a "frost pocket" away from any significant development and in town in Lake Placid on top of a hill, near a lake, and in a developed area.

I have noticed these things as well. Your points are spot on. I have a half acre pond on my property. It helps the bananas that I grow on the bank. My fruit trees on the south side of the pond only receive a benefit if there is a breeze from the north. If its very calm which is most common they don't get a benefit. Trees on the north side of my property benefit from some tall oaks just to the north of them. This area is warmer than the south side unless there is a breeze pushing warm air from my pond. With that said the differences are typically 1-2 degrees. I'm not in town so I dont have that benefit. I also believe the  south west side of Lakeland is lower than town and seems to create a colder pocket on still nights.

31
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 04, 2021, 05:35:25 PM »
Just got home from work. 31* was my low and upon doing a walk around I only see some burned leaves on bananas and a few minor burned leaves on my 4 year old coconut cream mango. Probably because the tree grows so ugly and wants to lay on the ground more than grow up so leaves close to the ground got some burn. See how things look over the next week or so.

32
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 04, 2021, 06:59:09 AM »
At 7am (31*) I can feel ice on some banana leaves and on my coconut cream mango leaves. Don't feel any ice on any other trees. Can't see the frost on the leaves but can feel it by touch. Lots of frost on ground. See how things look when no get home but don't expect anything to bad.

33
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 04, 2021, 06:29:07 AM »
Quote from: Jagmanjoe on February 04, 2021, 03:26:10 AM
At 2:15 this morning we were down to 31.3.  My South Lakeland FL location is just NE of the corner of County Line Road and Ewell Road.  Since then the temp has been bouncing around as high as 32 around 3 and now, at 3:22 back down to 31.6.  I wish it would bounce back up, otherwise we are going to be at or below freezing for about 6 to 8 hours.  Now wishing I had done more outside earlier in the day.  Shoulda, coulda, woulda scenario for me as I just was not expecting such a long freeze tonight.

Your a few miles from me as I'm by that blueberry farm on the corner of warring and old medulla. My station is not as precise as yours not reading decimals. It was 32* at 2am here and fluctuated from 32-33 up until about 5:30 then it hit 31* and here at 6:30 we're back at 32*. I'll go and check trees for frost soon. Last night wasn't an issue of severe cold but the duration was long. I'm sure the frost outside is going to be bad.

34
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 03, 2021, 08:05:15 PM »
I like studying weather but I'm not an expert. I think if you were east of Lakeland the really cold air pocket didn't hit your area until after sunrise when temps were warming up therefore your low temps last night were probably somewhat in line with forecast. Those of us in Lakeland and west of Lakeland probably experienced colder than expected temps because the cold air mass moved in faster than forecasters predicted but it only got as far as Lakeland before sunrise. Now that the air mass has well moved in I predict we will be pretty close to our expected low temp forecast tonight. I don't think tonight will be a repeat of last night for me or anyone in central florida. We are expecting 33-34* for a low tonight. At 43* right now at 8pm. If anyone reads this and are in Lakeland or west of Lakeland did you experience far colder than expected temps last night?

35
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 03, 2021, 07:32:27 PM »
I just got home from work and checked my history on my weather station and it shows a low of 30* not 32*.. So that's a 10* miss. I'm over by the airport, less than a mile. I saw many areas on WU in my area around 32* but that was at 5:45 when I left for work. It obviously dropped more after I left. Interesting I don't even see any burn on banana leaves. The drop below 32 must have been very rapid with a rapid rebound. I hope we don't see a miss tonight like last night.

36
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Polar vortex heading to FL next week?
« on: February 03, 2021, 03:43:20 PM »
Here in at my place in Lakeland I was shocked this morning seeing 32* when the forecast was 40*. That is the biggest miss I have witnessed in monitoring temps the past 5 years. I was angry but I don't believe anything was harmed. I typically use accuweather but I monitor other sources as well. Typically my property is right on par with the accuweather forecast for Lakeland but I've seen it off by 5-6 degrees before. The 8* it was off last night is just frustrating. Glad it wasn't a 8* miss with a forecast of 34 or so.

37
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: La Niña in winter 2020/2021
« on: January 16, 2021, 06:07:38 AM »
Here in Lakeland Florida our winter since December has been colder than normal and plenty of rain with the frequent cold fronts hitting. I don't think I've seen more than one 80* degree day all winter. No freezes but continual cool nights. Looks like my lychees and peaches will do great because of it. Nearly a perfect winter so far though I'm ready for things to warm up. Mangoes are slowly pushing flowers as avocado.

38
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 28, 2020, 10:03:55 PM »
Quote from: Mike T on November 28, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
Looks good and in developing well. The grass looks like guinea grass. I think there is scope for putting extra Eugenia's. jabs, various sapotes, maprang, abiu, guavas, longan, citrus, Annonas and a few others in a way to ensure year round production and diversity of the best fruits. Did I say Garcinias? I guess spreading suphur strategically would be  bit expensive but as a water additive it could work. You can select the N fertilisers that are most acidifying also.

I forgot to mention that sulphur doesn't seem to expensive for me. I find it to be very effective when ground to a powder and distributed evenly. I don't use any nitrogen fertilizers or any commercial fertilizers except some micronutrient, especially manganese.

39
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 28, 2020, 09:54:19 PM »
Quote from: CowboyFig on November 28, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
Yeah, chickens scratching can be counterproductive depending on your situation. Goats love woody growth so they would stress the trees for sure and would likely leave a lot of the grass untouched. Hair sheep or geese (believe it or not) could manage some pasture, but that would likely be extra work you wouldn’t want. At any rate, your property is looking fantastic. Man building up your own place is soooo addicting. I’m rooting for that green sapote too. I wanna see that thing fruit!

Yeah the green sapote had one fruit on it most of the year and I applied a fungicide (foliar/bark) to it in to large a quantity and burnt many leaves. The leaves fell and the fruit dropped.  The ph around the tree was very high so I recently put down some sulphur. I've noticed that the trees I have which have suffered from root issues due to the extremely wet summer we had a few years ago are trees in spots where the ph is 7.5 or higher. I've pruned some of the tree, put down some sulphur and planted some cover crop seeds around the tree to see if it will turn things around. I really don't want to use the fungicide anymore.

40
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:27:25 PM »
Quote from: CowboyFig on November 28, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Great tour and the growth is phenomenal. You’ve got a beautiful property. Ever thought of adding animals into the system, such as chickens?

I actually got rid of the chickens in year one. I didn't like them scratching under the trees. A dog is good for us but I have considered having a goat or something as a lawn mower. Let grass grow wild and move goat around to trim it down. That's a possibility if the animal doesn't destroy trees and fruit.

41
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:23:54 PM »
Quote from: Mike T on November 28, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
Looks good and in developing well. The grass looks like guinea grass. I think there is scope for putting extra Eugenia's. jabs, various sapotes, maprang, abiu, guavas, longan, citrus, Annonas and a few others in a way to ensure year round production and diversity of the best fruits. Did I say Garcinias? I guess spreading suphur strategically would be  bit expensive but as a water additive it could work. You can select the N fertilisers that are most acidifying also.

Thanks for the ideas Mike. I'm always pondering things to plant. My wife gets a bit worried that I will never stop and we will have no space left on our 2.5 acres. I also have to contend with freezes. A few years ago we hit 25* F. As things get bigger I don't have to worry as much but wife sees me planting new things that will take more effort to freeze protect. I'm sure in time I will get more diversity. We both work full time jobs so we don't get a lot of time to maintain things. Maybe that will change eventually and we will have more time. Thanks.

42
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 27, 2020, 07:08:54 PM »
Quote from: EddieF on November 27, 2020, 06:52:29 PM
Very nice.  pH is easy to test yourself with test strips for pool.

I have a good digital ph tester that works great. Was a good $120 investment for me.

43
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Update video to our 4-5 year old food forest in lakeland Florida
« on: November 27, 2020, 05:34:03 PM »
 I did this update video today, November 27 2020. This is a full tour of our 5 year project.

https://youtu.be/s79XvnwL3cY

44
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Shower Freeze Protection for a Jackfruit Tree
« on: November 26, 2020, 05:25:45 AM »
Thanks for the ideas. I wasn't planning on protecting the tree this year as the tree has struggled for two years ever since I put down way to thick layer of mulch. I thinned the mulch out back then when I saw the symptoms but probably not enough. This year the tree never grew in height although it did get a little wider. Back in August I pruned about 6-8' of the height off to see if it would get a good flush response. It didn't grow but it did put out female flowers. There are four of them currently but I doubt they will hold through winter. It doesn't help that the area was where the previous home owner kept his horse and he put down a ton of sea shells in that spot. The ph of the native soil there is just over 8 from what I remember. The mulch helps but the tree has suffered ever since I put down too much mulch. I have since planted a jackfruit seed in a different area of the property. It's a few inches tall. Thus I was already getting a replacement started and planning on leaving this big Jack up to fate this winter. Last year it handled 31* with no issues. I didn't use the shower that night.

As for too much water, perhaps your right. I was trying to go that route to avoid ice build up. Wasn't sure if the Jack would like a bunch of ice on it from a mist. Maybe it would do fine now that I have seen it handle 31* well.

As for the wind, on the cold fronts we always have wind out of the north or northwest from what I have seen. I have an excellent wind break just to the north of the tree in a line of oak trees and a long industrial building that butts up to my property.

I'm not giving up on the tree completely but the above is why I don't plan on protecting it this year. Thanks for the ideas as they will be handy in the future.

45
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango tree and lychee flush growth concerns
« on: November 04, 2020, 07:24:52 PM »
Quote from: bovine421 on November 04, 2020, 02:59:30 PM
Thank you for your reassurance and information on timing of pruning. That is a beautiful tree you have what variety is it? I think mine must be an emperor by the size of the tree and the fruit.  It's been productive so it must have been air Layerd. I have my fingers crossed that everyone will have a good season for lychee

It's a Mauritius.

46
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango tree and lychee flush growth concerns
« on: November 02, 2020, 05:04:29 PM »
I think you will be ok. Mine started flushing towards the end of September and I knew the timing was going to be bad from past experience. I knew it would flush again end of November early December which is to early so I tip pruned the whole tree to set it back a few weeks. It started flushing mid October so it's a little ahead of yours but I'm afraid mine might still be to early on the next flush. I need it to wait until January but I'm not sure if it will wait that long. If it doesn't work out I'll know I need to adjust the timing next year. Mine has been in ground for 5 years and is getting big.




47
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Too Early/Late To Plant Mangoes?
« on: October 26, 2020, 07:30:19 PM »
I just planted a sugarloaf mango a couple of weeks ago here in Lakeland. I've never worried about time of year. I try and get it in ground asap to get established. When they are this small they are easy to protect.

48
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Planting sapodilla and rollinia in September (orlando) stupid move or not?
« on: September 19, 2020, 08:15:18 AM »

Epicatt2
In the first video below you can just barely see the Hasya tree by a green ladder at the 4:45-4:50 mark. I didn't film the tree specifically that morning but just caught it from a distance as I was filming. In the second video I do an update where you get a close up of the Hasya at the 17:00 mark. You can see how small and skinny the trunk is. The first video there are a couple of shots of a digital thermometer showing the temperature.

https://youtu.be/EJ6-mF9z73Y

https://youtu.be/qJgvzYGTNkg

49
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Planting sapodilla and rollinia in September (orlando) stupid move or not?
« on: September 19, 2020, 08:04:37 AM »
Quote from: Iceman716238 on September 18, 2020, 10:44:16 PM
Quote from: C24mccain on September 18, 2020, 09:12:46 PM
I can't speak for Rollinia but I believe you are more than safe with the Sapodilla. I am the forum member mentioned above that had a young small Hasya Sapodilla make it through a 25* night here in Lakeland a few years ago. The tree was unprotected, in fact I left it to die that night and was shocked to see not even a single leaf was burnt on it. This can be verified by checking a video I have on YouTube that morning as well as checking historical records for my area to see the temperature that night and morning. I assume your tree is small so to be safe you can easily cover it on the possible few nights a year we might hit freezing. Add a heat lamp if you want and it won't be hurt. The risk of a couple cold nights is so low in my experience that I wouldn't waist any time getting the sap in the ground.

You are only 45 minutes west of me. I do want to plant the cherilata and rollinia at the same time and get it out of the way. I'm sure that you are right,  but I'll wait until march to do it.
Btw, I've read that hasya has an issue producing. Have you had those issues? Thanks

My Hasya has been slow growing compared to my alamo and makok. The Hasya has a couple of fruits on it now but nothing like the others which are loaded. The other two saps were protected during the freezes that year. I can't really say much about the fruit set because in my case it's been more of a growth issue although it's starting to grow better this year.

50
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Planting sapodilla and rollinia in September (orlando) stupid move or not?
« on: September 18, 2020, 09:12:46 PM »
I can't speak for Rollinia but I believe you are more than safe with the Sapodilla. I am the forum member mentioned above that had a young small Hasya Sapodilla make it through a 25* night here in Lakeland a few years ago. The tree was unprotected, in fact I left it to die that night and was shocked to see not even a single leaf was burnt on it. This can be verified by checking a video I have on YouTube that morning as well as checking historical records for my area to see the temperature that night and morning. I assume your tree is small so to be safe you can easily cover it on the possible few nights a year we might hit freezing. Add a heat lamp if you want and it won't be hurt. The risk of a couple cold nights is so low in my experience that I wouldn't waist any time getting the sap in the ground.

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