Crazy Stupid SF Bay Area Tropical Experiment

[Pancrazio]

The closest I can think of to Florence here on the West coast of the US are Roseburg, OR and Ukiah, CA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseburg,_Oregon#Climate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukiah,_California#Climate

You might find this site interesting -- it gives several central CA locations if you select Florence (it's basing things on mean monthly temperature alone -- I suggested the two cities above because they are Mediterranean climates with a bit of rain in the summer like you have):

http://www.codeminders.com/weather_similarity/#

The site you posted is really cool. I'm going to share it with some other italian fruit lovers, because it can result really useful to peeople who are willing to "zone push" stuff.

Regarding the cities you posted, they are remarkably similar to Florence! The main difference is that both of them look somewhat warmer than my city. I have noticed that an average of just 1°C can be an huge difference. I'm talkin especially of winter minimum/averages.
I have found that Vancouver has exactly the same average minimum temperature on January nights, but days are way colder. But at this point one should assume that average minimum on night is more important that average maximum of days and i'm not sure about that.
Thank you, though. Probably you are right, i'm somewhere between cali and oregon.

Italy has the Mediterranean sea. It warms in summer..but is a pond compared to the Pacific that borders California. The Alaskan current makes only bits of Chile and a tiny bit of Australia and a bite South Africa to have a Med climate and cold currents offshore. A rare Med climate in a bigger Med climate.
Heck I grew up never spending a day in warm ocean waters.  Still haven't-lol.  The bay does get warm as you go to its southern edges in summertime. 70's - 80+. Not many people know that.

Yep, Mediterranean sea is smaller. This probably also helps: water that heat up there remains there so is being pushed offshore (because offshore there are some other countries, lol). If you ever gonna spend some time in Italy i promise i'll bring you to take a swim in a warm sea water, with small waves and practically no tides.  I'ts just a salty swimming pool with fishes, really. 

[knlim000]

if you guys want heat in the bay area,,Antioch/walnut creek definetly has the heat like central valley- during the non-winter months that is. looking at their 10days forecast will be in the mid 80-90.  summer month will get to 100.
I find it hot and drier than Los Angeles during the month of june - Oct.

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/94531:4:US

[Stan]

We are starting a streak of 75-85f in Hayward for the next ten days,so that's fine. UV levels from the long days are high...and 90's are too hot for me. I pass on that.

[barath]

Does anyone know of a fruiting Grumichama in the bay area?  I know there are a number of folks who have fruited Surinam Cherry, Cherry of the Rio Grande, and Pitomba, but I wasn't sure about Grumichama.  It seems it might need a fair amount of heat, but I'm not totally sure about that.

[Stan]

Its a Eugenia. Not hard to grow in the bay area I would guess. Eugenia thrips might ruin them. That's a big worry.

[Stan]

btw,One tropical I tried for a short time? The Caribbean Avocado. The kind that has those huge fruit. One thing that stood out? The tree itself as a potted seedling LOOKED tropical..much greener lusher and nicely symmetrical than the off green hardy Avocado.  It grew fine all summer and winter...then I forgot to water it when repairs were being done on my home...I lost some nice plants over that time. Stepped on,or power cords made me put off summer watering...more dead plants.

Anyways..for bay areans who want something different..and a an attractive tree...the "Florida" Avocado.

[barath]

Its a Eugenia. Not hard to grow in the bay area I would guess. Eugenia thrips might ruin them. That's a big worry.

I have had no trouble growing it -- the thing I'm wondering about is getting it to fruit well.  I got the impression it needs a fair amount of heat to fruit regularly, but I'm not sure...

[ScottR]

Good luck Joe, in your growing attempts is good to see folks push the limits or edges of your growing zone!

[Bush2Beach]

I think your right Barath, Grumichama need more heat to grow and fruit than CORG, Surinam's, and others.
I gave up on mine and sent them 400 miles south to have a chance to thrive. CORG grow's faster than any Eugenia I've tried and was the 1 Eugenia holding fruit and growing good at Cloudforest .
I've not been doing as well with Rainforest Plum as I would like either but we'll see how it goes by the end of Summer.

Its a Eugenia. Not hard to grow in the bay area I would guess. Eugenia thrips might ruin them. That's a big worry.

I have had no trouble growing it -- the thing I'm wondering about is getting it to fruit well.  I got the impression it needs a fair amount of heat to fruit regularly, but I'm not sure...

[Bush2Beach]

I think Avocado's are
W.i. (West Indian) Huge & watery , Guatemala(pebbly), Mexican (black)or some hybrid of the 3.
In California the Guatemalan /Mexican strains grow and fruit best and There is great resources for people that want to grow Avocado here such as , :
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/avocadovarieties/VarietyFrame.html

btw,One tropical I tried for a short time? The Caribbean Avocado. The kind that has those huge fruit. One thing that stood out? The tree itself as a potted seedling LOOKED tropical..much greener lusher and nicely symmetrical than the off green hardy Avocado.  It grew fine all summer and winter...then I forgot to water it when repairs were being done on my home...I lost some nice plants over that time. Stepped on,or power cords made me put off summer watering...more dead plants.

Anyways..for bay areans who want something different..and a an attractive tree...the "Florida" Avocado.

[barath]

I think Avocado's are
W.i. (West Indian) Huge & watery , Guatemala(pebbly), Mexican (black)or some hybrid of the 3.
In California the Guatemalan /Mexican strains grow and fruit best and There is great resources for people that want to grow Avocado here such as , :
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/avocadovarieties/VarietyFrame.html

Have you had any luck with West Indian varieties as rootstock around here?  Frank has advocated using them as rootstock down in SoCal because they are apparently very vigorous, but I wonder how they do with our cold winters.  I never see any at stores around here, so I haven't had a chance to try.  (I've eaten them out East, and they tasted pretty bland, so I don't know that they'd be worth growing here for fruit.)

I am trying some Hawaiian varieties that are probably a complex hybrid of all three types, but it'll be a while before I know if they will do well here.  I've noticed that Nishikawa and Kahaluu both grow well here (Nishikawa is growing as fast as Sir Prize, which is the most vigorous cultivar I've seen), whereas Sharwil barely grows (though Sharwil is technically Australian).

I think your right Barath, Grumichama need more heat to grow and fruit than CORG, Surinam's, and others.
I gave up on mine and sent them 400 miles south to have a chance to thrive. CORG grow's faster than any Eugenia I've tried and was the 1 Eugenia holding fruit and growing good at Cloudforest .
I've not been doing as well with Rainforest Plum as I would like either but we'll see how it goes by the end of Summer.

Hmm, that's too bad.  I guess I'll give up on Grumichama for now...and I have a bunch of them.

I know Surinam Cherry can be drought tolerant around here (that is, no supplemental water in the summer) -- do you know of CORG can be as well?  I heard Grumichama needs year-round water.

[Stan]

Again,its what you are used to with the West Indian Avocado's.  Some dishes call for the blander types,Avocado smoothies?. Sort of like those who enjoy Green Mangoes for cooking. Any tree that bears fruit is good enough.
I wish somebody would try the West Indian. At the very least they make a great looking potted tree.

I bought mine at SeaFood City in Union City. They always have them. Jackfruit too if you want seeds of that. Sometimes Rambutan in plastic...seeds germinate. But it was mid winter. I should have tried harder. Sometimes Seafood City has a big exotic tree sale. ALL of them,Carrie Mangos- Starfruit,all the Atemoya's..Things never sold at local nursery's.

 Down the street is Pan Pacific..they are even more likely to have exotic fruit and herbs and vegetables for seeds. But,not live plants.

[Stan]

I think Avocado's are
W.i. (West Indian) Huge & watery , Guatemala(pebbly), Mexican (black)or some hybrid of the 3.
In California the Guatemalan /Mexican strains grow and fruit best and There is great resources for people that want to grow Avocado here such as , :
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/avocadovarieties/VarietyFrame.html

Have you had any luck with West Indian varieties as rootstock around here?  Frank has advocated using them as rootstock down in SoCal because they are apparently very vigorous, but I wonder how they do with our cold winters.  I never see any at stores around here, so I haven't had a chance to try.  (I've eaten them out East, and they tasted pretty bland, so I don't know that they'd be worth growing here for fruit.)

I am trying some Hawaiian varieties that are probably a complex hybrid of all three types, but it'll be a while before I know if they will do well here.  I've noticed that Nishikawa and Kahaluu both grow well here (Nishikawa is growing as fast as Sir Prize, which is the most vigorous cultivar I've seen), whereas Sharwil barely grows (though Sharwil is technically Australian).

I think your right Barath, Grumichama need more heat to grow and fruit than CORG, Surinam's, and others.
I gave up on mine and sent them 400 miles south to have a chance to thrive. CORG grow's faster than any Eugenia I've tried and was the 1 Eugenia holding fruit and growing good at Cloudforest .
I've not been doing as well with Rainforest Plum as I would like either but we'll see how it goes by the end of Summer.

Hmm, that's too bad.  I guess I'll give up on Grumichama for now...and I have a bunch of them.

I know Surinam Cherry can be drought tolerant around here (that is, no supplemental water in the summer) -- do you know of CORG can be as well?  I heard Grumichama needs year-round water.

Barath, The Quarry Lakes exotic tropical fruit orchard takes donations. Heck,I'm thinking of getting another West Indian Avocado tree going and giving it to them.

[JF]

I think Avocado's are
W.i. (West Indian) Huge & watery , Guatemala(pebbly), Mexican (black)or some hybrid of the 3.
In California the Guatemalan /Mexican strains grow and fruit best and There is great resources for people that want to grow Avocado here such as , :
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/avocadovarieties/VarietyFrame.html

Have you had any luck with West Indian varieties as rootstock around here?  Frank has advocated using them as rootstock down in SoCal because they are apparently very vigorous, but I wonder how they do with our cold winters.  I never see any at stores around here, so I haven't had a chance to try.  (I've eaten them out East, and they tasted pretty bland, so I don't know that they'd be worth growing here for fruit.)

I am trying some Hawaiian varieties that are probably a complex hybrid of all three types, but it'll be a while before I know if they will do well here.  I've noticed that Nishikawa and Kahaluu both grow well here (Nishikawa is growing as fast as Sir Prize, which is the most vigorous cultivar I've seen), whereas Sharwil barely grows (though Sharwil is technically Australian).

I think your right Barath, Grumichama need more heat to grow and fruit than CORG, Surinam's, and others.
I gave up on mine and sent them 400 miles south to have a chance to thrive. CORG grow's faster than any Eugenia I've tried and was the 1 Eugenia holding fruit and growing good at Cloudforest .
I've not been doing as well with Rainforest Plum as I would like either but we'll see how it goes by the end of Summer.

Hmm, that's too bad.  I guess I'll give up on Grumichama for now...and I have a bunch of them.

I know Surinam Cherry can be drought tolerant around here (that is, no supplemental water in the summer) -- do you know of CORG can be as well?  I heard Grumichama needs year-round water.

Barath, I got the idea from CIMIAMI(Carlos). He suggested that a West Indian rootstock might be able to control phytophthora better than clonal rootstock. The problems I've observe with west indian race in our area it has pollination issues but it's much more vigorous than most Guatemalan and Mexican race. 

[barath]

Barath, I got the idea from CIMIAMI(Carlos). He suggested that a West Indian rootstock might be able to control phytophthora better than clonal rootstock. The problems I've observe with west indian race in our area it has pollination issues but it's much more vigorous than most Guatemalan and Mexican race.

That's really interesting.  Do you know if anyone in slightly colder winter areas of SoCal have tried West Indian rootstock?  Like in Thousand Oaks or Santa Paula or similar places that have Bay Area-like winters?  I should try some out here and see how they do.

Am I remembering right that they also have more salt tolerance?

[Stan]

Well,I was looking at my Maridols- third summer in ground,drought or rainy year. They look pretty good with the run of warm weather. I don't know that I would ever tell anybody "A sure thing" in the bay area,but you might want to try Maridol Papaya for its slight edge in hardiness over Solo Hawaiian type Papaya's.
Again,if they never bare fruit? You at least have a nice looking little Tropical plant.

[JF]

Barath, I got the idea from CIMIAMI(Carlos). He suggested that a West Indian rootstock might be able to control phytophthora better than clonal rootstock. The problems I've observe with west indian race in our area it has pollination issues but it's much more vigorous than most Guatemalan and Mexican race.

That's really interesting.  Do you know if anyone in slightly colder winter areas of SoCal have tried West Indian rootstock?  Like in Thousand Oaks or Santa Paula or similar places that have Bay Area-like winters?  I should try some out here and see how they do.

Am I remembering right that they also have more salt tolerance?

The farthest north I've seen one was in west
LA, in an apartment complex. Someone planted a seed from Puerto Rico the tree was massive loaded in summer months. I'll have some Ismael fruits from my tree this year I'll save some seeds for you

[barath]

Barath, I got the idea from CIMIAMI(Carlos). He suggested that a West Indian rootstock might be able to control phytophthora better than clonal rootstock. The problems I've observe with west indian race in our area it has pollination issues but it's much more vigorous than most Guatemalan and Mexican race.

That's really interesting.  Do you know if anyone in slightly colder winter areas of SoCal have tried West Indian rootstock?  Like in Thousand Oaks or Santa Paula or similar places that have Bay Area-like winters?  I should try some out here and see how they do.

Am I remembering right that they also have more salt tolerance?

The farthest north I've seen one was in west
LA, in an apartment complex. Someone planted a seed from Puerto Rico the tree was massive loaded in summer months. I'll have some Ismael fruits from my tree this year I'll save some seeds for you

Sounds good, thanks!  I'll be in SoCal in 10 days and could try to find time to swing by if you around.

[JF]

Barath, I got the idea from CIMIAMI(Carlos). He suggested that a West Indian rootstock might be able to control phytophthora better than clonal rootstock. The problems I've observe with west indian race in our area it has pollination issues but it's much more vigorous than most Guatemalan and Mexican race.

That's really interesting.  Do you know if anyone in slightly colder winter areas of SoCal have tried West Indian rootstock?  Like in Thousand Oaks or Santa Paula or similar places that have Bay Area-like winters?  I should try some out here and see how they do.

Am I remembering right that they also have more salt tolerance?

The farthest north I've seen one was in west
LA, in an apartment complex. Someone planted a seed from Puerto Rico the tree was massive loaded in summer months. I'll have some Ismael fruits from my tree this year I'll save some seeds for you

Sounds good, thanks!  I'll be in SoCal in 10 days and could try to find time to swing by if you around.

Barath

I'll be on vacation. Call me I have your Hansen red budwood this summer

[Bush2Beach]

Joe, have you tried putting any Jaboticaba's on your vinegar drip set up? I'm curious how well that may work in summer, especially for in ground tree's. What's growing really well for you so far this summer?
What Annona's are you growing?

[achetadomestica]

Joe
I live in 9b also. The other day I was driving down the road and saw a Barbados cherry tree full of ripe fruit. There are also 3 mango trees growing on the property. I stopped and checked under the tree and the abundant fruit was falling on the ground going bad. I picked a few and the owner came out and she said take as many as you want. She showed me some other trees on the property and one was a soursop and another Annona and a starfruit. Basically these trees are in the open and not protected. The lady told me she didn't plant the trees and moved in 2 years ago. The trees are at least 7-10 years old and not being watered or fertlilzed. This place is only 10 minutes from my house and definitely zone 9b like mine. What an encouraging thing to see for a zone pusher like me!

Mike

[dwfl]

Joe
I live in 9b also. The other day I was driving down the road and saw a Barbados cherry tree full of ripe fruit. There are also 3 mango trees growing on the property. I stopped and checked under the tree and the abundant fruit was falling on the ground going bad. I picked a few and the owner came out and she said take as many as you want. She showed me some other trees on the property and one was a soursop and another Annona and a starfruit. Basically these trees are in the open and not protected. The lady told me she didn't plant the trees and moved in 2 years ago. The trees are at least 7-10 years old and not being watered or fertlilzed. This place is only 10 minutes from my house and definitely zone 9b like mine. What an encouraging thing to see for a zone pusher like me!

Mike

Awesome... what 9b was that in (city state)? And pics please

[knlim000]

getting the tree to survive and produce is half the challenge.  The other half of the challenge is to fight off critters taking a bit out of the fruit once they produce.

[barath]

A local CRFG member just visited me and showed me pictures of a mango tree growing in front of a motel near Santa Clara University.  The tree looked healthy, probably 10 feet tall and very bushy (maybe as wide as tall), and had many fruits hanging.  He said the Indian family that owns the motel planted the tree quite a number of years back, and gets fruit every year.  He said that there is another motel down the road that also is likely owned by the same family, also with a fruiting mango.  They also have a fruiting Jamun tree.

[BrianL]

Jamun is actually pretty hardy compared to it's relatives.  It survives for me out in Concord, although I doubt it will get huge like Fullerton.  It's even hardier then Rose Apple which survives closer to bay, but can get burned for me.

Any idea of variety of those Santa Clara Mangos?