Author Topic: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?  (Read 3908 times)

mikkel

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I know there several posts here and on other forums about average percentage of zygotic/nucellar offspring in different Poncirus hybrids. But I can`t find it now.
Anyone can help?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 08:23:43 AM by mikkel »

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 08:28:50 AM »
Nobody has seen these tables?
I intend to make a seed trial  and would like to know which variety has the greatest chance of giving zygotic seedlings.

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 11:51:04 AM »
Here a few citrange and citrumelo zygotic seedling percentages.


Citrus Genetics, Breeding and Biotechnology
edited by Iqrar A. Khan

 Page 144, Table 5.1 gives a list of rootstock zygotic percentages including citrumelos and citranges. A search for book preview gave a number of percentages.

Off the top of my head from other sources: C-35 citrange 15% zygotic, Benton citrange  0 % zygotic, Carrizo/Troyer citrange +/- 1% zygotic, C-32 citrange +/- 10% zygotic. Sanford,Yuma, and Phelps citranges have high percentages of zygotic seedlings. Sacaton citrumelo has fairly high percentages also.

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 12:14:26 PM »
Thank you!

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 01:46:58 PM »
I will go for Sacaton and Yuma if available.

Ilya11

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 01:55:11 PM »
I think these numbers are highly variable and depend  on the environment as well as of pollen parent compatibility.
link
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Ilya11

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2019, 02:06:15 PM »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lebmung

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2019, 02:50:13 PM »
Nobody has seen these tables?
I intend to make a seed trial  and would like to know which variety has the greatest chance of giving zygotic seedlings.

and more



« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 02:53:04 PM by lebmung »

Walt

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2019, 03:08:45 PM »
I've seen on this forum that US 852 citandarin has about 50% zygotic.  But a professional citrus rootstock breeder told me in a conversation it is more like 60%-70% zygotic.
Like Ilya said, it likely depends some on climate and pollen donor.

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2019, 04:54:38 PM »
for sure it depends on different factors and these numbers are not fixed. I see it it only as an advice what is most likely the best.
US852 would be a good option but it isn`t available in Europe in suitable amounts.
This is what I can choose from

Ilya11

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 05:08:54 AM »
When I pollinated SwampLemon by  IVIA ichangensis, more than 50% of seedlings were definitely hybrid.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 05:24:41 AM »
It was my impression too (but it is just my impression) that when I did cross pollination many seedlings were zygotic. Especially when I pollinate with Ichang Papeda. For sure the majority were monoembryonic.
Now I plan to do a large scale winter test similar to what Kumin did. So I need a large amount of seeds. I found only INRA as a supplier in Europe with a very restricted selection of varieties. Today I got an answer that even less varieties than in the catalogue are available.
Sacaton and Yuma are not available.
Are there other seed supplier in the EU? I thought spanish nurseries might have seeds. But couldn`t find any so far.

Ilya11

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 09:07:19 AM »
I have rather big harvest of 5star and N1tri  this year :D

« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:10:43 AM by Ilya11 »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 09:18:19 AM »
Great! Send you an email.

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 09:18:41 AM »
Mikkel, have you looked into ordering seeds internationally? Shipping costs would be higher and certification documents would be an additional cost. EU restrictions might make it impossible, though.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:57:46 AM by kumin »

mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 09:24:25 AM »
It`s a pity.  I know some sellers in the US with quite reasonable prices. But it isn`t allowed  to import seeds anymore. As long as you aren`t a scientific researcher it is not possible to obtain an import permit.
I wish I had done it before ...

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2019, 09:33:58 AM »
Here is a Spanish vendor of C-35 citrange and Swingle citrumelo in commercial quantities. Agrologica Servicios  Agricolas SL in Spain. Citrus rootstock seeds in Spanish is "semillas portainjertos citricos".
http://tienda.agrologica.es/117-semilla-portainjertos-citricos
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 02:43:27 AM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2019, 09:54:42 AM »
Swingle citrumelo has 5-10% zygotic seedlings vs 15% for C-35 citrange. Ilya's seeds may have higher percentages and better cold hardy genetics.

lebmung

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2019, 12:12:31 PM »
Kumin, I didn't plants 20000 like you did, but a small step 500 PT.
Mikkel, from these seeds 1/3 will be vigorous, a third moderate and the rest weak.
I discard about 60%, because the most vigorous can be double in size after one year, with all conditions equal.


mikkel

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2019, 12:28:09 PM »
From observation over the last years I won`t expect growth rate like you both. 1 year seedlings are no more then 20cm in height at the end of the year. No matter if irrigated, fertilized or not. I observe a strange growth pattern here  in my garden. First flush is often stopped by the cold again, in June is another flush. In late August plants start to grow again this is the strongest flush but most of this growth will freeze in winter as it isn`t really hardened when it gets cold.
I expect it is due to our climate here. Not much heat in summer.
I doubt such 1 year seedlings will survive a strong winter. 2 year old plants may be better suited. On the other hand winter has been very mild over the last years. They might survive but probably less cold selection wil take place...

Millet

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2019, 02:15:46 PM »
lebmung, you don't cover your seeds with a layer of the medium?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 11:33:30 AM by Millet »

lebmung

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2019, 08:38:26 AM »
lebmung, you don't cover your seeds with a laver of the medium?

yes 0.5 cm
germination rate over 90% at 80-90% humidity and 27C, never peel them off, two weeks prior sowing I make a shock treatment 20 degrees temperature variation, in 1 year they reach 25-30 cm high, if grown with lights during the winter they can reach 50 cm at the end of one year.

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2020, 07:27:41 AM »
Tables with rootstock seed germination, polyembryony, etc. characteristics. From University of Florida.


mikkel

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« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 10:35:04 AM by mikkel »

kumin

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Re: Which Poncirus hybrids has the highest percentage of zygotic offspring ?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2020, 08:45:14 AM »
Mikkel, when I initially saw the 95% zygotic embryos for US 1282 , I was a bit skeptical there might be an error. However, I've just received conformation that it's correct. So if it's possible to obtain a clone and produce one's own parent seed trees, there is the potential of producing large numbers of zygotic F2 seedlings. 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 06:54:41 AM by kumin »