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Messages - Triloba Tracker

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Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 18, 2018, 04:44:18 PM »

I thought my pawpaw was just setting buds for the spring, but this one definitely looks like it's opening now. This tree flowered this spring as well, though only three flowers. Is this normal, and if not, does anyone know why? The spring flowers didn't set fruit.

In this older thread I see TriangleJohn reported a branch re-flowering in the fall. So, I guess this is not without precedent. Very interesting.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 18, 2018, 04:40:08 PM »
For informational purposes only:
Folks have tried crossing pawpaw with its tropical relatives before, if i'm not mistaken. Possibly as far back as Fairchild, Zimmerman...and possibly even Bill Whitman (I know he tried growing pawpaw but not sure about hybridizing).
Neal Peterson of eminent pawpaw fame has focused on Asimina inter-specific crosses and I believe had tried Annona crosses unsuccessfully prior to that (could be wrong on that).

To me the pawpaw is so unique and different from Annona species, i'm not sure what the goals of crossing would be. (legitimate question, not snark) :)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Really Good Flavicarpa Passionfruit
« on: September 17, 2018, 01:05:01 PM »
This is awesome...i wish I were in a region where I could feast on all these great passionfruits.

To ScottR's comment - I have been into Passiflora incarnata for a few years and I can't understand why more work hasn't been done to improve this species for fruit.
I have done some very rudimentary selection (no controlled crosses) and have vines that i think make great fruit, but haven't had any major breakthroughs.
I have heard that some are working on fruit improvement but it's not out in the open, that I can tell. As Scott said, mostly flower selection happening.

I do have one hybrid that has flavicarpa attributes (floral, etc) but fairly sour.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: September 14, 2018, 10:29:43 AM »
Mine tastes like pineapple and banana. More sweet than P. edulis.

I got to taste one fruit from my vine, I got seeds from gooner 2-3 years ago from his wild collected fruits. And it does taste like pineapple(less banana) or maybe a virgin pinacolada with little drop of acidity so very nice to eat out of hand! no need to add sugar or honey, but my vines are small so maybe later the sweetness will be higher.. Sorry forgot to take a photo..

That's awesome! so exciting to taste something for the first time, especially when you grow it yourself.
I can see the pineapple a little bit. The flavor for me is hard to describe. I just noticed a little banana myself, actually, in one of my vine's fruits this year. Particularly the aroma, more than the taste.
I feel like there's an orange juice (i.e. out of a bottle) taste aspect.

As for fruit quality changing or variation. This has been my experience so far in a few years growing these: the first one or two fruits a vine produces each year are usually not very tasty. After that, the flavor improves during the season. Toward the end of the season the fruit quality can decline a bit too. Drier fruits perhaps but maybe not as sweet.
I also feel like the fruit should drop on its own and if found very soon, is best enjoyed about a day later. Fresh off the ground is good too though. after a couple days, the flavor declines and begins to take on a savory aspect.
Also, there is variation in flavor and sweetness across genotypes, as with most/all fruiting plants. I have grown many of my own seedlings and they do have different characteristics. I had one this year whose fruits were completely sour. Every one. So, that vine was killed-off  ;D

Addendum - Fruit size and shape, not surprisingly, are also variable across genotypes. Fruit can be spherical, ovoid, or even pointed at the base. Some of my vines can produce nearly tennis-ball sized fruit and others are like ping-pong balls (though the latter are hybrid vines).

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Maypop
« on: September 14, 2018, 10:22:18 AM »
Send me a message and we'll see if we can figure it out  :)

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Maypop
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:30:00 PM »
Were the seeds you sowed stratified first?

I may have some seeds I could send you in the spring. they would be pre-stratified.
I don’t have a lot (I have thousands but they’re a pain to clean ;))

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 10, 2018, 09:13:16 PM »
The leaf rollers/branch webbers do cause major damage.  I observed this in northeastern Alabama.

I stand corrected. And by way of pure coincidence, a friend in Indiana just mentioned he has "Asimina Web Worm" infestation in a couple of his healthiest trees.
So yes there can be pest and disease issues for sure - don't believe some of the hype that these are miracle trees.
Actually there is a buzz happening this year around pawpaws coming down with Black Spot fungus (like on roses), which seems like a new phenomenon. In fact, some of my young trees got it.
But it's nothing like trying to grow Peaches in Tennessee, where you have to spray constantly for hope of any harvest.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 09, 2018, 06:34:39 PM »
That stinks!
Well, generally they are pretty free from major pests, but yes there are definitely things that eat the leaves.
I don’t know what they are but there are little “worms” that look like tiny twigs that eat the leaves. These can be very hard to find and kill but they like to sometimes dangle off leaves and stems.

Also there are leaf rollers that will roll up parts of leaves with webbing and emerge to eat leaves.

The most well known pawpaw leaf eater is the zebra swallowtail butterfly larva. However, in 3 years growing pawpaws, I’ve never seen one. In the woods I’ve only ever seen one of these caterpillars.

I had similar idea that pawpaws were basically immune, based on things I’d read. But they’re glossing over the truth a bit. I think what these publications are trying to convey is there are no MAJOR pest issues. Like, the things listed above generally are just annoyances, not doing significant damage.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: September 04, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »

I thought my pawpaw was just setting buds for the spring, but this one definitely looks like it's opening now. This tree flowered this spring as well, though only three flowers. Is this normal, and if not, does anyone know why? The spring flowers didn't set fruit.

I don’t know - that’s interesting.
I can only speculate that perhaps the tree is confused by a lack of chill hours this past winter....?

In Old San Juan there is a little fruit/produce market somewhere....forgot the name. I found guanabana there (none available out west).
Maybe Yelp or just Google it.

While the island is small, getting from SJ out west to the places mentioned above (and back) would take a large portion of your day. Not impossible though, I guess.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: My small fruit tree orchard
« on: August 17, 2018, 06:30:55 PM »

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: August 17, 2018, 06:05:53 PM »
Good deal! You may prove once and for all if it’s  true :)

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: August 17, 2018, 05:50:46 PM »
Ok, right....i thought you would mention the self-fertile quality of the Sunflower.

I think there is some doubt as to whether it truly is self-fertile. That could be part of the issue with the fruits failing.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: 2018 Wild Pawpaw Watch Thread
« on: August 17, 2018, 01:44:09 PM »
We’ll only one of my wild grafts took after all.
Several seeds I planted in woods have come up and have a few leaves. So fun! Who knows how many will survive to maturity.

But the big news is I have my first fruits of the season!
I spotted a pawpaw tree in the side yard of a house in town. I knocked on the door and the homeowner had no idea it was a pawpaw tree or even any kind of fruit tree. She was very kind and let me pick a few fruits. They are smallish but better than nothing!

The main wild patch I tend is not ready. Fruits still hard. 

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: August 17, 2018, 01:40:28 PM »
My Sunflower Pawpaw trees. They are big but no fruits yet...

Oh wow those look great! Especially the big one, you’d think it’d have fruit based on its size. Do you have other cultivars that flower, for cross pollination?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Passionfruit juice?
« on: August 13, 2018, 04:45:41 PM »
I do what rob suggested with my Passiflora incarnata (maypop) pulp.

But usually I just eat the fruits fresh with the seeds. Been eating a few a day lately and possible all that roughage is a little irritating.
I have not found the seeds to have much taste so blending it all together may be viable.

Would love to know more about the wine...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Banner year for sugar apples
« on: August 10, 2018, 02:27:59 PM »
I hope to one day be in a similar boat, in "annonaceae" heaven with Asimina triloba fruits in a few years.

What cultivars do you have?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Children and Grafting
« on: August 10, 2018, 12:19:29 PM »
i'm far from an expert on grafting but i would say that as long as the union was not torqued or disturbed and it wasn't exposed long enough to cause dessication, you're probably no worse off.
But I could be totally wrong.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Terroir - The Next Frontier
« on: August 08, 2018, 01:34:25 PM »
I think your concept here is totally valid. Go for it!

Definitely those in France growing grapes and making wine are part of and can change the environment.
There could be argument about semantics but that’s a side point and maybe sport for some of us who love arguing about words and grammar, like me  ;D
The word “natural” could be understood as “biological” or more as “native.”  The former would include intentionally humanly controlled inputs, while the latter wouldn’t really.
Lastly, I think (not a wine or French language expert) that terroir is usually used in context of unknowable/unexplainable/uncontrollable biological factors (air quality for example) that result in different wine attributes among the same wines made in different regions.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Terroir - The Next Frontier
« on: August 08, 2018, 09:58:17 AM »
I would agree with Rob that the true notion of terroir is that of the naturally occurring environment, but certainly there’s merit in at least attempting to document factors that can influence flavor/texture/quality.
Maybe call it something else for the sake of us purists  LOL

Shameless one-time bump

Any opinions on the above?

This just occurred to me - if the soil is too wet (temporarily, hopefully) such that root function is impaired, could it be that the leaves are effectively cooking due to inhibited water movement/transpiration? the older leaves do look like they are “burning”. A couple of the trees are pushing new leaves while others are doing nothing.

If this hypothesis is correct, I could shade them - would this help?

Too much organic matter, when wet, can go into poisonous fermentation by anaerobic bacteria--- water rot, which is stinky.  Is your stuff stinky?

I sometimes see mangos planted in pure decomposed mulch--- very bad idea--- sick, defoliating tree, perpetually wobbly roots in muddy soil.

Thanks Har. Yes, I hear ya. No, no foul smells that I detected and I was looking out for that.

Really didn’t do much prep to the soil. I put thin layer of aged cow manure under the mulch and it lay fallow for about a year before planting. I did not amend the backfill when planting. Soil was reasonably friable it seemed to me - were not talking red clay or something.
I hope they will pull thru. 2 full hot days with full sun on the exposed soil now, but just below surface still wet. Mind you, I’m not talking soupy  ;)

What kinds of trees are in the wet area?  Some things dont even really mind it.  In central california a lot of the soil is geavy clay and they do floor irrigation and things grow just fine.

Right - the reason I suspected a problem is I was seeing leaf issues - black spots on undersides followed by just leaf death from the lowest leaves upward.
These are Asimina triloba, which are native to Tennessee. In the wild they often grow near creeks and rivers, so generally pretty water loving. I just think they couldn’t breathe in my conditions.


I think issue is 95% too much mulch, 2% unnecessary irrigation and 3% soil composition.

That doesnt really sound right.  It sounds like the soil is the main problem as its not draining well and its constantly wet because it rains a lot there or you are over watering.

You need the mulch to help fix the clay soil.  The worms will help move it down hopefully but clay is like a sponge.  Its not going to be easy to fix that especially if theres already plants there.

I see what you’re saying. The only other consideration is that 60% of the orchard  area seems fine, same soil. Though this wet section is the lower part of the slope but it’s not the bottom or a basin of any kind.
Yes, plants already there so not a lot of options.
I will top dress with some organic matter and will replace the mulch but not as deep.
We’ll see. Maybe this spot is doomed unless I divert some water.

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