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Messages - Patanax

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1
Great news, it appears I am not the only one who had this idea. There is very recent research into producing loquat hybrids to shift the flowering period into spring and create more cold hardy specimen which "could even enlarge the cultivated area of loquats" :D

Identification of interspecific hybrids between loquat (E. japonica) and bengal loquat (E. bengalensis)
https://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/papers/1497347472.pdf

As this paper is only from last year, the trees haven't yet grown up and flowered or born fruit. So the results are still unkown. Perhaps we will see new hybrid cultivars from this breeding effort in the coming years. Pretty exciting to be so up-to-date with current research ;D

In combination with the many hybrids that were mentioned in the paper @mikkel linked, development seems pretty promising.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468014117300304/pdfft?md5=cb457e9a41a9d334bfffee3e7b03778e&pid=1-s2.0-S2468014117300304-main.pdf

I also found a paper about natural hybridization between E. japonica and E. prinoides. Unfortunately, E. prinoides also flowers in winter, which is why they could hybridize naturally in the first place, but which also makes it less suitable for cultivation in colder climates.

Molecular evidence for natural hybridization between wild loquat (E. japonica) and its relative E. prinoides
https://bmcplantbiol.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12870-014-0275-6

2
Good point @Mangifera08, I had not considered the possibility that it could just be a specimen from the warmer regions and not represent the full hardiness potential of E. Elliptica. After all, they talk about the same thing for E. japonica cultivars in the Breeding Loquats paper on page 10.

The link works fine for me. Maybe try another browser or disable some browser extensions? Here is a screenshot of the page: https://imgur.com/a/kQkp5Fo

3
Hello, sorry for the late answer, I didn't have time up until now.

@Mangifera08

Unfortunately, it seems that E. Elliptica is not very hardy. I found a paper about a specimen in the Kew Royal Botanical Gardens in London with lots of information. They mention that it is too frost-tender for a cultivation in Britain, which is an important information considering that the regular loquat, E. japonica, is hardy through most of the UK (according to the Royal Horticultural Society).

https://eurekamag.com/pdf/003/003435038.pdf
https://www.kew.org/kew-gardens/attractions/temperate-house
https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/6735/i-Eriobotrya-japonica-i-(F)/Details

E. fragrans flowers in AprMay and fruits in AugSep.
E. petiolata, which was mentioned earlier, flowers in March-May.

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200010832
https://biodiversity.bt/species/show/6267

@mikkel

In January I also found a several years old loquat at a community garden in Vienna. Unfortunately, when I came back to take a look at it again in summer, they had cut it down because it got too big for the limitations in the community garden and had never borne fruit...

https://imgur.com/a/jiAdZ2S

The winters in the city are definitely milder by a few degrees though.

I've heard of "Coppertone", but there are various sources giving different information. Many nurseries seem to either sell a regular E. japonica cultivar under the name Coppertone or have mixed up their description text and pictures with E. japonica. For Coppertone, you can find everything from "flowers in fall and bears edible fruit in spring" to "flowers in spring but doesn't form fruit at all".

I found this paper, but it is also very vague. It doesn't mention the flowering time but says that Coppertone doesn't form fruit at all. Anybody who can confirm/deny this?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/253330818_An_intergeneric_hybrid_between_Eriobotrya_and_Rhaphiolepis

E. deflexa itself isn't very hardy though, so even if Coppertone is a bit hardier because of its other parent (most likely R. indica?), I doubt it would do well in colder climates.

@NateTheGreat
Bronze loquat is the common name for E. deflexa. Coppertone is a hybrid, most likely between E. deflexa and Rhaphiolepis indica.

4
Well, I made the list using the two sites below, one being a book with some Eriobotrya species and their distribution in China (not neighboring countries) and the other being a USDA zone map of China. I couldn't find any ready-to-use zone information for most species (other than japonica and deflexa), probably because those species aren't being cultivated outside their native range.

If you look at the uppermost left spot for E. fragrans in the book and compare it to the zone map, that area is supposedly zone 5. The rest of its native distribution area is zone 8+ though, so I didn't write the zones inbetween.

Established E. japonica trees are hardy to about 12F (-11C), so zone 8a. According to the paper from my first post, E. fragrans is hardier than japonica. Probably not zone 5 though.

Regarding fruit in colder climates, at least E. japonica, the regular loquat, has an unusual flowering habit in that they flower in fall and bear fruit in spring. So in any area that has temperatures below about 27F (-3C) in winter, fruit is unlikely. But you can still grow the plants themselves, e.g. as evergreen ornamental. In the best case, there would be a hardier relative of japonica that flowers in spring and bears edible fruits in fall. But I would be happy with anything that is a bit hardier than japonica, so that I could attempt growing it in zone 7 with protection.

The paper mentions quince rootstock on page 11, stating that is is mostly used for its dwarfing effects in commercial fruit production but that it isn't compatible with all varieties and leads to zinc deficiency in the plant. Do you think it would make the trees hardier? Aren't they more resistant to the cold on their own roots?

Also, thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to look up E. hookeriana and E. petiolata :D

5
So I made a non-scientific list of some Eriobotrya species and their USDA hardiness zones, based on sources I found online. So far it looks like E. fragrans would be the most promising species in terms of hardiness.

Scientific nameUSDA Zones
Eriobotrya bengalensis9/10
Eriobotrya cavaleriei8/9/10
Eriobotrya deflexa9/10/11
Eriobotrya elliptica8/9/10
Eriobotrya fragrans5/8/9/10/11
Eriobotrya henryi9/10
Eriobotrya japonica8/9/10
Eriobotrya malipoensis10
Eriobotrya obovata9
Eriobotrya prinoides8/9/10
Eriobotrya salwinensis9
Eriobotrya seguinii9/10
Eriobotrya serrata9/10
Eriobotrya tengyuehensis9/10

Sources
Atlas of Woody Plants in China: Distribution and Climate, Volume 1https://books.google.at/books?id=rXTGyOlDjdoC&pg=PA515#v=onepage&q&f=false
China Plant Hardiness Zone Maphttps://www.backyardgardener.com/garden-forum-education/hardiness-zones/china-hardiness-zone-map/

6
Hello,

I am looking for seeds of temperate climate Eriobotrya species, so relatives of Eriobotrya japonica (Loquat).

I've come across this interesting paper on breeding loquats:
https://hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/pdfs/breeding-loquat-pbr37.pdf

On page 11 and 12 they talk about the possibility of using wild Loquat species as rootstock for commercial Loquat production and mention Eriobotrya fragrans as an even cold-hardier species than japonica, although the native distribution area in Guangdong makes this seem unlikely? Anybody who lives in a colder climate in East Asia and wants to send me some seeds of Loquat relatives? Buy or trade.

7
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Bare root tree purchase
« on: October 25, 2018, 05:58:12 AM »
Buying Pawpaws as bare root trees is not recommended. They don't transplant well, which is why they are normally sold in pots with soil, to protect the roots. It is also recommended to plant Pawpaws in the spring, not in the fall like other fruit trees.

8
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
« on: June 06, 2018, 05:40:26 PM »
Yeah, would like to get some seeds. Add me to the list :)

9
Very interesting indeed. Keep us updated on your plants @Triloba Tracker.

I have also ordered some Incarnata seeds from TradeWindsFruit, as it seems to be impossible to get seeds or plants through local retailers here in Austria or even Germany. I planted the seeds in pots and put them outside, but so far none of them have come up. I will try stratifying the remaining seeds and plant them in the next season I guess...

I also have a Passiflora Caerulea that I bought from a local supermarket for 8 (with flower buds on it), and to my surprise, it even set fruit. When I looked it up online, several websites said that Caerulea is self-infertile.

https://imgur.com/a/pA5jiL5

I have put the fruit in a repurposed garlic mesh as the local slugs love the tropical Passiflora flavor and constantly chew on the plant ;D

10
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: What citrus is this?
« on: May 17, 2018, 04:36:59 PM »
Coincidentally, I read about a certain citrus variety on Reddit today, which could be the citrus you're looking for OP. It's a Vietnamese orange variety with green skin and orange flesh, called Cam snh.

11
I have just looked up the Chinese Bayberry and all sites I've come across mention it only being cold-hardy down to zone 10?

12
Lol, interested in this as well now. Especially since the Nashi you can buy here are crunchy and look like pale apples.

13
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina parviflora
« on: April 17, 2018, 06:08:35 PM »
You might wanna check out this thread: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14323.0

14
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Moving to a warmer country?
« on: April 17, 2018, 06:06:32 PM »
I agree with Triloba Tracker, you should really check out Pawpaws, which supposedly taste like Cantaloupe when the fruit isn't fully ripe and start to taste like Mango when the fruit gets mushy. They're related to Cherimoya and Soursop, and the only member of this family that is hardy down to -25C. I only planted mine a few weeks ago here in Austria, so I can't yet comment on the taste :D

I'm sure a nursery in your area offers some grafted Pawpaw trees. I recommend the variety Prima, as it is self-fertile.

I've already been to Madeira, it was very nice there.

15
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: What citrus is this?
« on: April 17, 2018, 05:49:04 PM »
Shouldn't this be in the tropical section? There are probably more people who might know it too.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Are Loquats in Zone 7a possible?
« on: April 15, 2018, 04:14:28 PM »
Very interesting indeed, thanks for the link. I will keep it in mind when I plant mine outside.

I've actually spoken with someone today that claims they have a fruit-bearing Loquat tree that is planted outside here, but I'll have to get back to them and ask for the details.

But even if I can't get any fruit from my tree, it could still be a nice ornamental in our garden. As for why I am interested in the fruit, it's because it's unusual and I have five trees that I've taken care of for so long ;D

17
A pawpaw maybe?

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Are Loquats in Zone 7a possible?
« on: April 14, 2018, 05:53:32 PM »
Hello,

I am located in zone 7a and I have five five year old loquat seedling trees that I have kept in containers up until now. I was thinking of planting one of the trees outside in the garden as an experiment, next to a south-facing wall. While I am certain that the tree will survive in general (maybe with regular frost damage), I was curious if fruit production was possible.

From what I've gathered online, loquats normally flower in late fall or early winter and bear fruit in spring and early summer in mediterranean climate. In colder climate, they flower in late winter and bear fruit in the summer. I was thinking about grafting a very late blooming variety on my tree, the idea being that it starts blooming in early spring (so that the flower buds aren't killed in the winter) and bears fruit in late summer.

Any opinions? Could this work, or is it nonsense?

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