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Messages - SoCal2warm

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Marsh Grapefruit
« on: June 15, 2019, 10:29:38 PM »
Not even a quick mention to how your tree is surviving in the ground in Colorado?

That's kind of an important detail.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 15, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
Unfortunately the tiny little keraji seedling that got killed down nearly to the ground, but still held onto a very tiny green leaf, got accidentally hacked further down by a gardening crew a few months ago. However, the bottom stem did remain a green color, though not the healthiest looking green.

I think I now see a tiny little green bud growing out of it, or trying to grow out.
June 15

Might still be a little too early to tell but I think it is technically still alive. The seedling is tiny though, not even an inch above the ground.

The little bud that looked like it was just starting to leaf out on the Ten Degree looks like it has shriveled up and fallen off.

However, now I see another green bud forming.

I'm not getting my hopes up though because this Ten Degree has continued trying to grow out green buds during periods of heat, but then a stretch of cold comes along, and then the next day the little buds shrivel up in the sun, like the tree just does not have enough energy to keep pushing out the little buds that have formed.

I see that by your Charlie Brown citrus trees... You really need to find another hobby.
Funny. They did survive over the Winter though.
Under 18 inches of snow. That type of Winter is a once in a decade thing here.

jim VH in Portland tells me Yuzu trees just need about two years in the ground before they really start growing and become more hardy.

You mean 2129 in that climate....

I actually get a lot of heat in this part of the PNW. The trouble is that heat keeps turning on and off.
It's also a short growing season, but the length of daylight is very long in the Summer. Vegetables can grow huge here due to the long days.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 12, 2019, 11:09:02 PM »
Here's the very small Yuzu seedling that survived the Winter, it now has several small leaves growing out of it.

Report back in 2029 with how the fruit tastes!
It will probably be as elongated as the leaves!

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Variegated Thomasville Citrangequat
« on: June 10, 2019, 01:10:38 PM »
Of course, keep in mind that variegated cultivars may not have as much vigor, because they have less chlorophyll, and might not be able to grow as fast or recover from damage as easily.

I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but I've never really understood what all the excitement is about when it comes to variegated cultivars. To me they look a bit sickly. Personally, I prefer the look of non-variegated, but that's just me.
But if you want to count variegated cultivars are rare, for a collector, I suppose that counts too.

Citrus General Discussion / unusual seedling with elongated leaves
« on: June 10, 2019, 12:20:01 AM »
This is a seedling from a Shasta Gold mandarin, a triploid variety, which rarely ever has any seeds.
At first I thought something else was growing in there, perhaps a weed, but then I saw on closer inspection that it was citrus. I had planted two germinating seeds in there.

These are both seedlings from Shasta Gold but one has unusually elongated leaves. Perhaps it is aneuploid.
The other has very thick stubby leaves and reminds me of what tetraploid citrus might look like.
Funny things can happen when you grow citrus seedlings from triploid cultivars, and I don't think Shasta Gold produces nucellar seeds.
All of the Shasta Gold seedlings I've tried growing (let's just say I went through a lot of fruits to get those seeds) have turned out weak and slow growing, oftentimes kind of stunted, unusually so. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trying to root C. ichangensis
« on: June 09, 2019, 11:55:47 PM »
The ichangensis cuttings are doing very well, putting on healthy leaf growth

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 09, 2019, 11:05:39 PM »
Here's the Bloomsweet, that survived the Winter under a cover

It managed to grow out a few leaves, despite severe damage to the trunk. (leaves grew out above the damage)

and of course it was not one of the mild Winters this year
the cover had breathable fabric on the top, though that was covered in snow

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 09, 2019, 09:46:48 PM »
Here's a Yuzu I just planted

This Yuzu actually survived in a container, inside greenhouse when the roof completely collapsed in due to the weight of snow.
The greenhouse was still intact when the coldest temperature hit (12-14 F), although the greenhouse had a lot of big cracks leaking in cold air. Just two or three days later there was even more snow and that's when the collapse happened, so there effectively was not a roof after that, it was open to the elements. This Yuzu (in the picture) lost all its leaves but later regrew them, being left in the container outside. Another Yuzu that was in there kept its leaves. (They are from different nurseries so might have to do with the rootstock)

I had to dig out the Satsuma that died, and planted this Yuzu in its place.
The Satsuma was covered throughout the Winter, up until early April. There were three gallon water containers in there, that never froze even during the coldest temperature drop in Winter. It was a colder Winter than usual, and with a deep blanket of snow, which is not usual here.

Here is a picture of the graft union on the Satsuma tree:

The Satsuma part is dead and brown, while the rootstock section right below the graft union is still a deep green. (June 9 )
It obviously was not a rootstock issue, the Satsuma scion simply was not able to survive the cold temperatures apparently.
This was up against a south-facing fence, in a warmer spot in the yard.

The Satsuma actually looked like it was likely going to survive, despite the leaves looking completely trashed, until the middle of April when the full damage started to become evident.

(The Satsuma was covered with a special clear vinyl plastic plant enclosure, it had a flimsy frame that quickly collapsed under the weight of snow)

So it looks like Satsuma (or at least a small Satsuma) cannot survive through the colder Winters here, even covered, with passive protection.
But Yuzu looks like it can survive, and even do very well with just the slightest bit of protection.

I actually went out there, just 3 or 4 hours before temperatures were expected to dip to their lowest point, and filled the three water containers with hot water and put them back under the covering. Apparently even that was not enough to save the Satsuma. This was late at night I went out there and there was no ice in the containers before I changed it out with hot water, which was surprisingly because there was already a foot of snow on the ground which had been there for a few days, and the days had remained cold.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Ebay & etsy seed
« on: June 07, 2019, 06:06:36 PM »
Why would you think an online seed seller, who sells hundreds of completely different plant seeds, which are not fresh and have just been shelved in storage for years, probably bought from someone else in wholesale, would have any idea what specific type of plant his seeds came from?

The seller probably never tried planting most of the seeds they are selling.

Many sellers also have no idea that citrus seeds rapidly lose viability in storage, despite selling those seeds.

From my experience, the maximum length of time citrus seeds can last, not refrigerated, but at cool temperatures, and kept from drying out, but not too moist that would encourage germination or rot, is about 5 or 6 weeks.

That doesn't exactly make citrus seeds economical for a bulk seed seller, especially one that primarily sells other types of seeds.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichang lemon Sebastien
« on: June 06, 2019, 05:31:53 PM »
I have a bad experience with Ichang Lemon, tried to grow  it three times, they resist no more than three years in my climate.
I've had a similar experience here, in the US Pacific Northwest. My Ichang lemon (in a container) has not been very vigorous and has not seemed very cold hardy. Yuzu has done much better.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Too hoti
« on: June 06, 2019, 02:36:19 PM »
58 F here in Olympia, WA, 11:30 middle of the day

It's because of cool winds blowing in from the cold Pacific Ocean, which is flowing down from Alaska.

But it reached a hot 78 a few days ago.

I have for the moment four generations of its seedlings, if grafted on poncirus, they, even slowly growing on there roots, have the same hardiness and fruit quality.
Ilya, did all of them look like my seedling in the seedling stage, with mostly monofoliate leaves?

Here's a Thomasville seedling I'm growing

interpret it how you may
the leaves look intermediate between trifoliate and monofoliate, but look like they're tending much more on the side of monofoliate. (or rather to be more accurate I should say 6 leaves are single, and one of them seems to be doing a poor job trying to break into two, bifoliate)
this is just a young seedling though

I removed the seed from the fruit myself, so this definitely came from Thomasville citrangequat

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: NANSHO DIADIA info
« on: June 05, 2019, 02:17:53 PM »
Also known as Citrus Taiwanica.

It probably would survive for you, where you are. Though they don't taste very good. You might be able to make a marmalade out of it though.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 05, 2019, 01:59:08 PM »
Here you can see how much cold damage there is on the trunk of the Yuzu plant:

It looks really bad. It did go through an unusually bad Winter. No wonder the Yuzu hasn't really sent out any new leaves yet. But half of the old leaves have recovered and look a healthy green.

This just goes to show that even Yuzu can be kind of borderline in this climate. Suffered really bad looking damage but the tree managed to survive. (That might say more about the vigorous nature of Yuzu than how resistant to cold it actually is)

But also a bit surprising, it looks like the little Yuzu seedling has finally popped out a new green bud, I see tiny little leaflets beginning to form

The little Yuzu seedling is still alive!

Took it long enough to show signs of life though.

June 4

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 03, 2019, 08:15:52 PM »
Here's the nitidissima hybrid yellow camellia:

It struggled to survive the Winter, suffered severe leaf damage, mostly lost all its leaves, and I could tell suffered some frost damage to the buds, but it has finally leafed out now.
I would say this borderline survived.

Nitidissima is a rare subtropical camellia, I am happy this hybrid managed to survive.

The 'Crown Jewel' hardy gardenia hybrid plants survived. The leaves all recovered their healthy green color, and no leaf loss. They did surprisingly well, considering they were buried in 18 inches of snow with the terrible Winter this year.

The cork oak (Quercus suber) is doing well. Survived the Winter just fine, did not even lose its leaves.
I was told it was a Mediterranean oak species so might not survive. Have one small seedling in the ground and a larger one in a container.

So it can take the Pacific Northwest, climate zone 8a.

These rare plant varieties give some good indication what types of plants can survive here.

Also a large-flower exhibition variety chrysanthemum, 'Heather James', was able to survive outside here.
'Hagoromo' barely is alive, and just sent out a small leaf from a lower brown stem. I had numerous other exhibition varieties and none of them survived, so these two varieties appear to be the most resilient out of the lot. (Exhibition varieties are different from normal garden chrysanthemums, not as hardy)

Also two rare hardy pomegranate small trees have leafed out now, 'Parfianka' and 'Crimson Sky'. They should survive the worst Winters here, and I am hoping to be able to hybridize them together into a better new hardy variety.

Big fig trees loaded with huge figs are not uncommon in yards around here.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: June 03, 2019, 07:37:00 PM »
Finally, a tiny bud breaking out of the Ten Degree

You'll have to look very carefully in the picture, sorry I couldn't take a more up close detailed picture.

This bud looks like it's going to make it.

(That's an Ichang papeda that just got planted in the background, so ignore that)

Fruits in November 2017:
Thank you for posting pictures of the "false Yuko".

It definitely looks like it has ichangensis in it, perhaps citron also (those ends are pretty pointy, but ichangensis can also have that to a lesser extent).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: yuzu hybrid
« on: June 03, 2019, 10:10:18 AM »
Ichangensis leaves do not have any particular smell and are unpleasantly bitter in the taste.
The ichangensis leaves I smelled and tasted had a faint light lemony smell, and I do not remember them tasting particularly bitter, not any more than Meyer lemon leaves. (I could be wrong, I may not be remembering the bitterness level the most clearly)

The smell was also reminiscent of Yuzu leaves (in the way of having a pungent deepness) or Kaffir lime leaves, though obviously inferior to Kaffir lime leaves. Definitely more bitter and less aroma than Kaffir limes leaves.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sudachi flavor and cold hardiness?
« on: June 03, 2019, 10:02:29 AM »
related past thread:
Sudachi cold hardiness

In Europe we have a lemon variety that is present in Czech collections and distributed previously under Yuko name.
I suspect that it is some sort of lemon hybrid either with Yuko or ichangensis.
A small plant grafted on FD roots survived in my garden a very harsh winter with strong winds, night temperature up to -9.6C and frozen ground. Some twig damage was there, but a plant recovered perfectly. Same winter I had some stem damage at Yuzu tree.
That's very interesting. Do you still have the tree?

Do you think it could be related to Japanese Yukou?

It seems like no body have heard of Harvey Lemon. There were also very limited info about this variety. Some one claimed that it is far more cold hardy than meyer lemon, but why and how??? Did the normal lemon tree mutate its own gene by chance to tolerate colder climate?
Harvey lemons look a little like Meyer lemons to me. They might have something else in their ancestry.

It is deffinitely not a trifoliate hybrid nor Ichangensis papeda hybrid.
I could throw out guesses, but it would just be uninformed speculation.
(white grapefruit, maybe one of the parents were Meyer lemon? maybe a hardy sour orange cross with citron? maybe the parent lemon had recessive hardy genes that did not get to express themselves until the F2 generation?)

I highly doubt it is anything so exotic as having trifoliate or ichangensis in its ancestry.

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