Calcium Deficiency on Calcareous Soil?

[Cookie Monster]

Earlier this year, I laid down potassium sulfate to correct a potassium deficiency (per soil test). The soil was already really high in both Mg and Ca, so I figured K-sulfate would be the best. Shortly after I did that, my NS-1 jackfruit (which was covered with fruit) stressed and started showing what look to be signs of Ca deficiency.

Thoughts? Did all that water soluble potassium compete with Ca?

[Tropicalgrower89]

Maybe you are giving it too much potassium. Too much of any mineral can cause toxicity. Based on the leaf you showed, it looks like iron, zinc or manganese deficiency. Hope Har and other experts can chime in.

[skhan]

Isn't Inter-vein chlorosis a symptom of copper deficiency too (and potassium)?
Though that shouldn't be a problem since you spray copper fungicide.

Is the picture a new or old leaf, I think calcium deficiencies are more easily recognized in the newer leaves

Excess potassium is said to prevent the uptake of many nutrients, so it simply could be that.

I could be completely wrong, just mentioning what I've learned.
Hope everything works out though.

[Cookie Monster]

To me it looks like the Ca deficient leaf in this lineup: http://www.canolawatch.org/2012/03/09/station-5-potassium-boron-and-calcium/

The soil is pretty high in Zn, Fe, ca, and Mg, and the pH is neutral for a foot or more. Massive amounts of compost. Maybe the bulk of the root system is in the foot or so of compost, which is perhaps Ca deficient?

It happened right after adding potassium sulfate. I'm thinking the flush of K all in the sudden caused a Ca deficiency. The tree was also heavily loaded with fruits (probably too loaded).

The tree dropped a lot of leaves around the same time, so I guess another possibility is some sort of salt toxicity?

[cbss_daviefl]

Look at the picture for magnesium for umbrella

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep362

[Cookie Monster]

Mg? OK. I guess that would make more sense than Ca. The weird thing is that Mg in that area of soil was over 600ppm (high) in that area. I wonder if I just put down too much K too fast such that it precluded uptake of Mg. Interesting. Thanks for the link.

[Cookie Monster]

I found a picture of an Mg deficient jack leaf: http://agritech.tnau.ac.in/horticulture/plant_nutri/jackfruit_magnesium.html The yellowing is more towards the margin, where mine has the yellowing in the center with green on the margins.

[cos]

Must be careful with soil analysis as some elements may be present but bound up & thus not available. So if possible get a leachate analysis as thats what the plant will have access to.

[cbss_daviefl]

Without doing a leaf analysis, we can only guess. I agree the green margins are out of character for Mg. From what I have read, calcium is suppose to distort new leaves and have necrotic areas. The canola link you posted had necrosis but I do not see that in your leaf. Maybe the tree burned through all the K you laid down with the high fruit load and cannot absorb Mg for lack of K.  I have leaves that have the same pattern as yours.  My guess is that over time, the yellowing would spread to the margins.  I probably do not have the energy to do so but it would be interesting to track down a similar leaf and watch to see if it changes over time.   

[Cookie Monster]

OK. Maybe I'll send off a handful of leaves for a tissue analysis. Spectrum does it for a reasonable price.

Mg does seem plausible. Since K and Mg are competing elements, excess K would displace Mg. The K I laid down would be much more mobile, since it was a water soluble powder and probably hit the tree like a shot of cocaine.

Looks like next year I'll stick to k-mag regardless of soil analysis.

[Mark in Texas]

OK. Maybe I'll send off a handful of leaves for a tissue analysis. Spectrum does it for a reasonable price.

Got a link?

Doesn't look like a Ca deficiency to me either.  Have seen that symptom in citrus and believe it's a Mg deficiency.  Whatever, epsom salts helped.

[Cookie Monster]

OK. Thanks, Mark. SpectrumAnanalytics.com They do my soil tests. Great prices and quick turn around.

I'll hit it with some k-mag then.

OK. Maybe I'll send off a handful of leaves for a tissue analysis. Spectrum does it for a reasonable price.

Got a link?

Doesn't look like a Ca deficiency to me either.  Have seen that symptom in citrus and believe it's a Mg deficiency.  Whatever, epsom salts helped.

[Guanabanus]

The middle of the leaf looks like Manganese deficiency, but I do not recognize the wide dark green outer margin.

Maybe deficiency of Boron or Zinc can cause indirect Calcium deficiency?

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks, Har. I'm going to send the leaves off to Spectrum to satisfy my curiosity. I'll report back with results.

The middle of the leaf looks like Manganese deficiency, but I do not recognize the wide dark green outer margin.

Maybe deficiency of Boron or Zinc can cause indirect Calcium deficiency?

[Mike T]

Excess K causes Ca, Mg and Bo to be difficult to uptake as these are antagonistic nutrients. I think it causes alkalinity so a second raft of nutrient may so harder to absorb, Sulphur to correct would make the Ca and Mg uptake worse and even cause Mo deficiency and so there is a cycle. the leaf could be Mg deficient with other things going on. Lots of mulch might help.

[simon_grow]

I'm starting to think that foliar feeding is highly beneficial without the risk of nutrient lock that ground applications of fertilizer may cause.

Cookie Monster, are those leaves from older or younger leaves. Also were those leaves from some shaded portions of the canopy? I had leaves on my Gold Nugget Mandarin that looked like the leaves you posted and I attributed it to a very heavy fruit load pulling nutrients from older leaves. The affected leaves on my tree were towards the bottom most portion of my tree and occurred most in the center towards the trunk where most of the leaves were shaded.

Simon

[simon_grow]

Something that significantly helped my trees which are grown in soil with an initial pH of around 8.2 was soil drenches with acid water. I used pH down( phosphoric acid) which you can order online and drenched the root zone of my in ground trees with water that was approximately pH 5. I used such a low pH drench to take into consideration the buffering capacity of the soil.

By bringing the pH of the rhizosphere down to approx 6.5, it allows for my plants to uptake nutrients that would otherwise be locked up at a higher pH. I tend to use organic fertilizers such as fish/kelp emulsion for ground applications of fertilizers and I foliar with chemical majors, minors and trace elements.

Cottonseed meal along with sulphur helps maintain the pH of my soil.

Simon

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks, Simon. Yes, it could be from the heavy fruit load. The leaves are a few months old and in full sun.

Yah, I think you're right -- a foliar spray could help.

I've been using sulfur to lower the pH. Helps tremendously.

[Cookie Monster]

OK. I used both sulfur and K at the same time.

This tree is in about a foot of mulch / compost :-).

Excess K causes Ca, Mg and Bo to be difficult to uptake as these are antagonistic nutrients. I think it causes alkalinity so a second raft of nutrient may so harder to absorb, Sulphur to correct would make the Ca and Mg uptake worse and even cause Mo deficiency and so there is a cycle. the leaf could be Mg deficient with other things going on. Lots of mulch might help.

[cbss_daviefl]

I doubt that any application of K will last very long in our soils, and a water soluble form was probably mostly gone after the next good rain event.  In clay soils, it will bind to the existing minerals and release in water when levels go below 10 ppm.  It does not bind well with sand or organics.  In South Florida soils, I believe it just leaches away. Google potassium soil cycle.

[Mark in Texas]

I agree, I think a foliar spray, for just about any plant material is the best way to correct deficiencies.  I'll tell you who is really good at this is Johnny, owner of DeltAg. He gifted me with all kinds of his micro products. They're really good. https://www.seedcoat.com/

MicroVite is good. https://www.seedcoat.com/microvite

[simon_grow]

Here's a great thread on foliar feeding: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=241.0

Simon

[Cookie Monster]

Below is a soil analysis collected about 20 feet away from where that tree is living. Based on the results, I gave it k-phosphate and mn-phosphate and some sulfur to drop the pH.

I know Mn doesn't stick around for long, but considering the high organic matter content of the soil (> 1 foot thick of black compost), I thought I'd give it a shot. K is normally applied via soil treatment, but all I could find locally was a water soluble powder. I guess I could send off another soil test to see how much the soil retained :-).

[Mark in Texas]

Tell ya what's causing a lock out of your ultra high Fe and Zn, it's the super high phosphorous.  Where did that come from, organics?  Phosphorous is one of the most overused, abused macros there is and when in excess will induce a micro deficiency. Even with turf I'm using low P foods like 35-5-10 or 20-3-19.  Can't find it now but there used to be an excellent chart on the subject of nutrient antagonism. 

[Mark in Texas]

Looks like a Zn deficiency in a citrus leaf.  Gets a lot worse looking than that if the deficiency is severe.  http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ch142