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Author Topic: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan  (Read 2609 times)

sapote

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Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« on: July 13, 2016, 02:25:07 PM »
 “This is a mango for the true connoisseur. A Condo mango.”

I bought this Alampur Baneshan because of the above description from Toptrop.

Problem: It’s in ground for about 4 years and only 18” tall – inches not feet. I had tried numerous times to graft its scion to a HD La Verne’s manila root stock, but not one survived. I had tried with green scions on green stocks, and the last trial was a young red shoot scion on red stock a month ago, and  now they are green, not dried but no new grow at all. I had almost 100% success with other mango but failed badly for Alampur. Had anyone ever grafted this mango?

simon_grow

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 06:02:04 PM »
How is your rootstock doing? I like to use rootstocks that are vigorous and just starting to push new growth or are in active growth phases.

Simon

JF

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 06:30:39 PM »
Probably a compatibility issue.....we had a lot of that with Indian cultivats. Another one is Val-Carrie onto Manila

simon_grow

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 06:35:51 PM »
JF, I wonder if the Indian Cultivars will graft better on Kent or Haden? If these don't work, we can try it on Kesar seedlings.

Simon

starch

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 06:47:49 PM »
That's really weird. I have grafted both Kesar and Amrapali on to La Verne Manila this spring and both have put on a couple of growth flushes this summer. It's weird that some Indian mangoes take on Manila and some don't.
- Mark

simon_grow

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 07:07:04 PM »
My Kesar graft on Manilla is shooting for the sky, I believe it is only specific varieties that are difficult to graft.

Simon

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 07:19:11 PM »
It's interesting that other Indian mangoes were successfully grafted to Manila. On the same Manila root stock I had grafted Vietnamese Cac, Thai Okrung tong, Maha, LZ, and all survive and grow strong, but  I could not get one Alampur out of more than 7 trials.

Simon -- as I tried to say I had tried the graft at different ages, from very juicy young red shoots to green shoots, both for scions and root stock, but all were no good. The Manila root stock is about 6 yrs old and relatively vigor.  I tend to think it's the genetic compatibility the issue. I will try on a Kent seedling root stock next, because I can't stand my Alampur bonsai.

kh0110

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 09:47:19 PM »
I have Alampur Baneshan grafted on my La Verne Manila multi-grafted tree and it seems to have a normal growth but slower than most of the rest mainly Alphonso, Lemon Zest, NDM, Ah Ping. It grows however better than Maha Chanok and Sweet Tart.
Thera

barath

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 10:04:31 PM »
I wonder if an interstock will solve the problem -- if you have grafts of Indian-types that you already grafted that are compatible, maybe it'll work if you graft on those already-grafted branches?

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 10:06:43 PM »
Barath, I don't have other Indian mangoes beside Alampur.

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 10:08:56 PM »
I have Alampur Baneshan grafted on my La Verne Manila multi-grafted tree and it seems to have a normal growth but slower than most of the rest mainly Alphonso, Lemon Zest, NDM, Ah Ping. It grows however better than Maha Chanok and Sweet Tart.

Thera, do you remember any specific things about the scion, size and aging stage? Pencil or smaller, green or red shoot? Time of the year? Great to hear that this worked for you.

barath

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 10:18:20 PM »
Barath, I don't have other Indian mangoes beside Alampur.

Hmm, that's too bad, though who knows -- maybe Lemon Zest or one of the others would work as interstock?  (Just curious if you tried that.)

kh0110

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 10:20:31 PM »
It was a pencil size scion which I got from Oscar and grafted onto a new shoot about the same size that was already green.
The time was early April.
Thera

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 10:21:38 PM »
I had grafted an Okrungtong Thai mango on the Malila and the OK was growing so strong, and so I did try to graft Alampur on the grafted Ok, now I remember, but it failed the same way.

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 10:24:44 PM »
It was a pencil size scion which I got from Oscar and grafted onto a new shoot about the same size that was already green.
The time was early April.

onto a new shoot already green (root stock). What's about covering protection? paper bag over plastic tube over the grafted union? outside temperature day and night?

kh0110

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 10:50:47 PM »
onto a new shoot already green (root stock). What's about covering protection? paper bag over plastic tube over the grafted union? outside temperature day and night?
My La Verne Manila is in ground and it's just an experimental tree. I'm not a mango freak. :)
I always cover my grafts with ziploc and paper bag on top. As for the temperature, it was early April in So Cal, so you can guess how it was. A bit cold at night but against all odds, the graft took.
Thera

barath

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2016, 11:19:09 PM »
I had grafted an Okrungtong Thai mango on the Malila and the OK was growing so strong, and so I did try to graft Alampur on the grafted Ok, now I remember, but it failed the same way.

Ah, that's too bad...

simon_grow

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2016, 12:24:07 AM »
I forgot to mention this but it is really important. From my personal experience and observations, I have slower growth and a lower percentage of takes when I graft varieties considered compact, dwarf, small. For example, I have had lower percentages when grafting Maha and NDM on Manilla. I did get a take of NDM on Manilla and it grew several branches and flowered but after 2 years, it died back.

Simon

kh0110

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2016, 12:58:01 AM »
I forgot to mention this but it is really important. From my personal experience and observations, I have slower growth and a lower percentage of takes when I graft varieties considered compact, dwarf, small. For example, I have had lower percentages when grafting Maha and NDM on Manilla. I did get a take of NDM on Manilla and it grew several branches and flowered but after 2 years, it died back.

Simon

Growing condition and geographical area surely matter a lot in the equation. In opposite to yours, Simon, my NDM on in ground Manila is among the most vigorous and second only to Alphonso. It's a 3 years old graft and this year I had to severely prune it to halt its rapid progression. That was in February/March and now it has already recovered 1/3 of what was cut off.
Being a non mango nut, I don't give the Manila tree any special attention other than a normal watering and fertilizing (Fish emulsion). The tree is from Home Depot, about 6 years old. It is heavily "pruned" when I put on all the different varieties, 8 in all.

Thera

simon_grow

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 01:11:31 AM »
Thanks for the information Thera, my NDM was grafted a little lower than it should have been. I think if I were to graft just NDM onto Manilla rootstock, I would have better success. My Mallika on the same tree is also not growing well and may die back as well. My vigorous varieties like LZ, Kesar and Pineapple Pleasure are over growing everything else, I like these vigorous varieties so I allow them to grow and decided not to keep them in chech with pruning.

Simon

behlgarden

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 03:14:06 PM »
One of my observation on grafting several varieties on various root stocks, almost all grafts on my alphonso take. Ataulfo and Manila are hit and miss on the same varieties, but Alphonso has always accepted it. looks like the most tolerant to other varieties, could be something about Alphonso.

I have a medium alphonso tree that now has only two small branches left, it now has over 35 varieties and all doing very well. Note that my alphonso was a air layer, not a graft. you cant find that anymore. I got it from Plantogram a while back.

starch

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 06:10:35 PM »
One of my observation on grafting several varieties on various root stocks, almost all grafts on my alphonso take. Ataulfo and Manila are hit and miss on the same varieties, but Alphonso has always accepted it. looks like the most tolerant to other varieties, could be something about Alphonso.

I have a medium alphonso tree that now has only two small branches left, it now has over 35 varieties and all doing very well. Note that my alphonso was a air layer, not a graft. you cant find that anymore. I got it from Plantogram a while back.

That is really interesting. Maybe use Alphonso as a grafting inter-stem for some of the varieties that are harder to get a take?
- Mark

behlgarden

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 06:25:24 PM »
I would definitely give it a shot. Even Mallika branches are very tolerant to indian varieties to graft over. All this is suitable for most doing cocktail trees.

kh0110

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 07:55:43 PM »
Mallika is 100% indian hybrid, so it's kind of normal that it would be compatible with other indian mango varieties.
My experience with Alphonso confirms Behl's observation. It is a very vigorous variety in So Cal and more so than LZ. I have an LZ graft on Manila that took 3rd place in terms of vigor behind Alphonso and NDM. One day, I chip budded an LZ on an Alphonso mature branch. The bud grew almost immediately and now that graft has the exact same vigor and straight up growth as the other Alphonso branches while the original LZ grafted branches are still lagging behind.

Now, this post gives me an idea to graft Alampur on an Alphonso branch to see how it will perform.
Thera

sapote

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Re: Mango grafting: Alampur Baneshan
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2016, 10:17:09 PM »
Succeed finally!!!!

After about 2 months one graft failed and one seems to take: one bud broke and a new shoot is coming. Even in warm weather this graft stayed in dormant for many week with the little buds not swelling, until recently.




Here is a photo of last year graft Ukrung Tong on the same HD Leverne "manila" tree, with a smooth union:




 

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