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Author Topic: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness  (Read 1004 times)

SoCal2warm

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citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: March 24, 2018, 09:11:54 PM »
I've observed that citrus grown from seed seems to do better, showing apparently more cold hardiness and being able to survive compared to the grafted plant that died.
I've observed this with lemons and kumquats, and there's also the white grapefruit growing at the Chelsea Physic garden in London up against a protected corner which was originally raised from seed before being planted outside after many years.

This is an interesting observation because the vast majority of the time, when people attempt to plant citrus outside to see if it can survive where they're at, the citrus came from a nursery and is on grafted rootstock.

These observations are coming from zone 8, in the Pacific Northwest. I have no doubt these plants would do much better on Flying Dragon rootstock in colder climates. But here they seem to grow more vigorous and be less susceptible to losing leaves on their own roots. I've also had a few plants on Flying Dragon or citrange that had most of their stems turn brown and die back whereas the seed-grown ones were more resilient. My Satsuma mandarin on unknown rootstock (it's dwarf though) also has not done as well as another Satsuma grown from seed, despite the seedling starting out smaller.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2018, 02:16:24 PM »
in some cases I have made the same observations: crafted C. ichangensis (marked as very hard, crafted on PT) died in its first winter surrounded by C. ichangensis IVIA seedlings that survived. And this winter a PT crafted on PT died because of frost-cracked bark. I need not say that all PT on their roots (even the ones in pots) survived. On the other hand I did not have any problems with scions high crafted on PT. The ones that died were young crafts or crafts just above ground.

Radoslav

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2018, 09:20:00 AM »
It is not a question of cold hardiness. There is never a full simbiose between graft and rootstock, rootstock see graft as alien, tries to over grow it.
And in stress situation like drought, frost etc. grafted part is usually the one, who suffers the most.

SoCal2warm

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 10:54:31 PM »
North Waco family's orange tree a miracle on 15th Street
by J.B. Smith, January 2013

A tree that Juana Delgado grew from the seed of a grocery store orange has become a miracle on 15th Street.

This month, Delgado’s family has harvested an estimated 600 oranges from the tree she planted 15 years ago when she moved into the Habitat for Humanity home near North 15th Street and Colcord Avenue.

In recent weeks, the family made big jugs of orange juice, shared fruit with passing vagrants and sent their children door-to-door to give away large bags of juicy oranges.

The tree has defied the conventional wisdom that oranges can't survive the Central Texas winter, when temperatures usually dip into the low 20s.
But the tree has soldiered on, even through a January 2010 cold snap when temperatures plummeted to 8 degrees.

"Many people said it’s not possible," Delgado said in Spanish. "I say, 'Come look. It's possible.'"
Mark Barnett, a McLennan County master gardener and a landscaper by trade, said he has seen many people try to grow citrus trees they bought from big box stores, but the trees usually freeze and die.

"It's very unusual for it to have survived that long without protection," he said. "We've had some extremely cold winters that should have killed it."
Delgado started the orange tree in a pot using a seed from an orange she bought at an H-E-B supermarket. Most table oranges are improved hybrid varieties and tend not to reproduce faithfully by seed, Barnett said.

But Delgado's oranges turned out sweet and flavorful. Delgado has been harvesting a few oranges a year during the last decade but got her first big harvest two winters ago: A basket and a box full. In the 2011 drought, she kept the tree alive by watering it but ended up with only three oranges that season.
This year, she hit the jackpot. Her children and grandchildren climbed ladders to pick the fruit and filled six boxes with about 100 oranges each.

https://www.wacotrib.com/news/north-waco-family-s-orange-tree-a-miracle-on-th/article_3928e5be-b811-52ef-8dee-465b5788e6ae.html


Waco, Texas, is in zone 8a, and is just a little south of Dallas.

Although in recent years the 8b zone has been moving north, first the southern half of Waco was reclassified into zone 8b, and now on the latest maps zone 8b has engulfed the entire city.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 11:10:16 PM by SoCal2warm »

Millet

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 12:51:59 AM »
Nice things happen to those who wait.  Great story. Thanks SC2W for thinking of us.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 01:58:12 PM »
Reminds me of Juanita tangarine. The originial plant is said to have survived -18°C (?) but graftet Juanita's resistance to frost is far from that.


mikkel

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 02:17:18 PM »

https://www.wacotrib.com/news/north-waco-family-s-orange-tree-a-miracle-on-th/article_3928e5be-b811-52ef-8dee-465b5788e6ae.html

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact wemmons@wacotrib.com or call 254-757-5757 or 800-678-8742.

Someone can help?

mikkel

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 02:18:39 PM »
solved.
Found it in Google Cache.

Millet

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2018, 09:59:24 PM »
I once ask Dr. Malcolm Manners if citrus trees started from seed were more cold hardy that grafted trees.   Dr. Manners said no.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 03:13:39 PM »
Dr Manner's estimation or result of scientific investigation?

Millet

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 09:52:16 PM »
Zitrusgaertner,  I can see you do not know of Dr. Malcolm Manners, or you would have never asked that question.  Dr.Manners  holds the Chair of Citrus Studies at Florida Southern Collage. He is one of the best known minds concerning citrus in the USA.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 09:56:34 PM by Millet »

SoCal2warm

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 10:28:11 PM »
Sometimes what is regarded as common knowledge can be wrong though. Sometimes a specific experiment to answer that question has never been carried out, or only applies to specific situations (certain varieties, a certain climate zone).

Ilya11

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Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 03:51:04 AM »
What I learned from my 25 years of experience of growing hardy citruses in a open ground- is to never generalize. I am sure that Dr. Manners will agree with me ;)
Different root/bud combinations are showing drastically variable responses to winter conditions. A seedling grown in situ with deep principal root has certainly an advantage over a plant grafted in a pot on a stock with shallow roots.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

 

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