Author Topic: My 11 Mango Tree Collection from Top Tropicals tree update (Read 72077 times)

ClayMango · « **Reply #175 on:** March 19, 2014, 12:46:58 PM »

Quote from: JF on March 19, 2014, 12:23:31 AM

Quote from: ClayMango on March 18, 2014, 05:40:33 PM
Quote from: BluePalm on March 16, 2014, 05:57:29 PM
Hi Clay. I lived in Murrieta for 2 years so I am familiar with the growing conditions out there. The soil is tight packed clay and is a bear to dig a hole. The summers as you mentioned are very hot and very dry. I remember in 2004-2005 (I think that is the winter) it snowed about 3-4" there...it killed a Plumeria in my front yard. I don't think it is a good mango/lychee/longan climate, but plums, cherries, apples, etc. seem to do well there.
I wish you the best with your tropicals.

BluePalm

Mark, JF, Gary, Mango Surf, Everybody!!!

Blue Palm on this thread here has scared me to death when he mentionted snow and really cold weather... Well I've been trying to dig research on the climate and so I've found that the lows typically don't drop below 30 on a typical Winter. However this Wikipedia Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murrieta,_California Mentions that Murrieta/Temecula has several Micro Climates that have seen Temps vary as much as 18 degrees. "The city is also subject to the phenomenon typical of a microclimate: temperatures can vary as much as 18°F (10°C) between inland areas and the coast"

Anyone have any information on this Micro Climate buisness? I'm scared now for my babies..I mean we only saw 33 this year, but then again this was a mild winter.

Clay

Like I said, I believe is this thread, I was in Temecula/Murrieta Friday around de Luz road if you are around that area you will have no problem growing mango. I will let you know in April when I visit my friend again.

Jf

De Luz is a bit higher in elevation than where I'm at...I believe that is where the Majority of the Commercial Riverside Avocado Crop is grown, I believe they tend to get colder temps than we do..

Also I'm contemplating on driving up to this random guys house down the block who just happens to have a 15 ft Mango tree growing on the side of his house...and see how he has weathered the winters out here... Hopefully he wont mind me being nosy.

Mangosurf · « **Reply #176 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:35:05 PM »

Clay,

I was a little shocked when I read that Wikipedia article on Murieta where it mentioned rare instances of snow in the climate section. It seems strange that the temperature in Murriete/Temecula could be that much colder than at the coast unless it is at a slight elevation like 1,000-1,500ft. I think it would be a really good idea to talk to your neighbor who has the 15ft mango tree to try and figure out some good strategies to protect your trees.

ClayMango · « **Reply #177 on:** March 19, 2014, 03:50:09 PM »

MangoSurf,

I believe these snow occurences are only in the mountain areas, but in 05 the city did get some snow apparently...however temps usually never drop below 26 for extreme lows....I'll just need to be prepared when that day comes until my trees are huge enough to have a better chance of survival....Like Gary's 20 foot plus Manilla that went unscathed when they had frost at 26 degrees...However not sure how to protect 10 trees...Several trees is no biggie...But a green house for 10 trees? nope...Maybe 10 space heaters and 10 huge frost clothes? I dont know...not sure what I'll do if we have another Rare winter like that one.

MangoFang · « **Reply #178 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:13:12 PM »

Most likely Clay - on a larger tree the frost can actually do you a favor and "prune" the outside
layer of leaves and branches. That's actually what happened to my big MANILA - it got hit on the outside
edges of the tree and then proceeded to branch most wickedly the next year. But if it's too cold then the damage would be more severe of course.

And you if have bad luck like Nancy (Puglvr) then you could lose the whole tree with an extended cold spell.... and be devastated by it. I think she's still recovering from the look of that gorgeous tree painted post-frost brown....

Yep, we do live on the edge in lots of ways.......so be prepared for disappointments...it's inevitable when you're digging for this kind of gold!

$:-\$

Gary

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #179 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:17:20 PM »

Quote from: MangoFang on March 18, 2014, 02:52:36 PM

Wait...Mark....so Ivory is NOT a sticking-surfacant or is an OK substitute
for SurfKing, but only as a spreader?

This may be a stupid question, but what about a very diluted mixture containing
Ivory and Elmer's glue put in the foliar?

(He asks with a serious face - )

Gary

Uh, no. Time to take a ride down to your local ranch supply store.

MangoFang · « **Reply #180 on:** March 19, 2014, 10:20:56 PM »

ok...ok....I thought it was worth a "hints-from-Heloise" kind of try....
I've been online looking at the surfacants and they are a bit
pricey, but I won't need a lot with the amount of plants I have.

thanks again for the pointers....Gary

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #181 on:** March 20, 2014, 09:03:31 AM »

Quote from: MangoFang on March 19, 2014, 10:20:56 PM

ok...ok....I thought it was worth a "hints-from-Heloise" kind of try....
I've been online looking at the surfacants and they are a bit
pricey, but I won't need a lot with the amount of plants I have.

thanks again for the pointers....Gary

Did some homework for you. This is a good one. Not necessarily a good value, but a good product nonetheless. A high quality product will have about 90% solids, something to look for on the label. http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/msds/Spreader%20Sticker%20Approved%2006-20-12.pdf http://www.ebay.com/sch/Home-Garden-/11700/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=hi-yield++spreader-sticker&_sop=15

Tractor Supply (TSC) also sells surfactants.

Here's one I buy by the gallon from our local farm and ranch supply - $15. You can split it 4 ways with other mango growing nerds at less than 4 bucks a quart.

http://www.epestsolutions.com/pdf/Red_River_90_label.pdf It's labeled for citrus, etc.

Speaking of mango nerds, flowers on the Pickering are opening and the pollinators are hitting them. Yay! Another first for this old pHart.

Mark

savemejebus · « **Reply #182 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:22:11 AM »

Why not just use a teaspoon of yucca extract as your surfactant mixed in with your normal foliar spray?

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #183 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:23:47 AM »

Quote from: savemejebus on March 20, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

Why not just use a teaspoon of yucca extract as your surfactant mixed in with your normal foliar spray?

Does it offer the same effect (multi purpose properties) as a surfactant? Was it designed to be used as a surfactant?

If so, then go fer it.

Bush2Beach · « **Reply #184 on:** March 20, 2014, 01:19:38 PM »

Quote from: ClayMango on March 12, 2014, 05:51:30 PM

Patrick I have a 30 pound bag of spagnum Peat, a bag of Mix and Mulch, and another 2 different bags of Kellogs Mulch including N-Rich and Growmulch....I think I wll make a house blend of all of this since I apparently Purchased some Hydroponic Medical Bob Marley Soil that will kill my trees. http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/index.php/item/happy-frog-174-potting-soil.html

I like the coco wet surfactant in addition to neem oil. It might only be available with the umm Foxfarm at the "medical Bob Marley " store but it's made in Texas so it can't be that hippy dippy right?

In addition I would highly recomend not purchasing kelloggs soil/ mulch products as the ingredients are misleading in that they contain a lot of sewage sludge from LA inland Empire , which certainly is another way to turn a waste byproduct into a business. They do this without labeling sewage sludge in their product. FoxFarm is ok , a little heavy. I would recomend these 3 cubic ft. Bags of aurora innovations 707. A very good product for all of my potted fruits, and incredibly fast draining. Check the ingredients

These specialized "garden" stores have quite a bit to offer compared to your box stores or commercial farm supply.

MangoFang · « **Reply #185 on:** March 20, 2014, 06:28:29 PM »

Mark - there was nothing for $15, but I did get a gallon of stuff from
EPestSolutions. I'm sure the directions on the bottle will tell me precisely
how to use this. It's a little "heavy" to see this stuff is angled and advertised
to be used with pesticides and poisons, but I'll take your word for it that it
can be used with foliar fertilizers!

Thanks again....I will try it out on a few leaves and let them sit for a few days
to see if there is any damage or effect from it's use.....Then I guess I could add
some foliar nutrient in my next experiment on a few leaves, then go from there....

Gary

ClayMango · « **Reply #186 on:** March 20, 2014, 09:09:57 PM »

Quote from: Bush2Beach on March 20, 2014, 01:19:38 PM

Quote from: ClayMango on March 12, 2014, 05:51:30 PM
Patrick I have a 30 pound bag of spagnum Peat, a bag of Mix and Mulch, and another 2 different bags of Kellogs Mulch including N-Rich and Growmulch....I think I wll make a house blend of all of this since I apparently Purchased some Hydroponic Medical Bob Marley Soil that will kill my trees. http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/index.php/item/happy-frog-174-potting-soil.html
I like the coco wet surfactant in addition to neem oil. It might only be available with the umm Foxfarm at the "medical Bob Marley " store but it's made in Texas so it can't be that hippy dippy right?
In addition I would highly recomend not purchasing kelloggs soil/ mulch products as the ingredients are misleading in that they contain a lot of sewage sludge from LA inland Empire , which certainly is another way to turn a waste byproduct into a business. They do this without labeling sewage sludge in their product. FoxFarm is ok , a little heavy. I would recomend these 3 cubic ft. Bags of aurora innovations 707. A very good product for all of my potted fruits, and incredibly fast draining. Check the ingredients

These specialized "garden" stores have quite a bit to offer compared to your box stores or commercial farm supply.

Correction, I spoke with their Company Rep and he Confirmed they used to use sludge in their products until 2013. The state of California forced them ether to stop using sludge in their products, or take the organic label off of every single item they sell, which is the trademark of their business.

Also all of their product have the ORIM cert Stamp which Sludge is Prohibited. From OMRI's list of materials:
Sewage Sludge
Status: Prohibited
Class: Crop Fertilizers and Soil Amendments
Origin: Synthetic
Description: Also called biosolids. See Glossary for definition of "sewage sludge."
NOP Rule: 205.105(g) & 205.203(e)(2)

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #187 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:48:42 AM »

Gary, a surfactant is used to enhance the effect of herbicides, pesticides, fungicides and yes, salts used in foliar feeding. If the product doesn't stick and given a chance to move internally into the plant (translaminar) what good is it?

This is gonna piss off the organic purists, but I don't trust most organic products regarding quality and purity...... and even less regarding the claims. You just don't know what you're getting. Not only are organics rip offs regarding pricing but there have been documented cases where some products had high amounts of heavy metals like barium, arsenic and such. CocoWet has been mentioned. Never used it so I can't vouch for it's properties and effectiveness. But, I challenge you to get an analysis of this company's flagship product - Spray-n-Grow (if you can worm it out of them or find it anywhere. These types are NOT transparent). Guess what the highest content (ppm) of one particular element is in this rocket fuel is? Sodium!

And then there's the heartwarming cute little boy shown on the home page with mommy sighing - "I love Spray-N-Grow because everything is kid's safe!"

But that's the way this racket rolls. Tack on the buzzword 'organic' or 'natural' and da Believers will come running, without doing their homework.

end of rant.....

zands · « **Reply #188 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:38:18 AM »

Mark in Texas

You have thought a lot about organic vs conventionally grown. Which produce fruits veg etc tastes better and do you think well grown organic back yard or organic small scale produce is superior? Has more minerals. Is less bloated ....one veg grower trick is lots of irrigation to increase vegetable weight.

Most produce I consume is not organic but I do consider organic superior when done right. Higher mineral contest etc.... Will not taste washed out like a washed out Glenn mango. Glenn has this sometimes habit

Ever hear of Fletcher Sims? He was an organic composting pioneer in Texas and very right wing

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #189 on:** March 21, 2014, 10:25:24 AM »

Zands, don't get me wrong, I'm about as organic as they come. What I don't like is the organic shysters, the hype, the rocket fuel salesmen and they are a dime a dozen. I use tons of compost, manures, etc. rarely use pesticides (because I don't have to). Planted 3 successive years of legumes and humus producing cover crops on my acreage before doing my farm biz. It cost me thousands. I put in elbon rye, Madrid yellow sweet clover and Hairy vetch, the latter two legumes. The rye was so thick you could hardly walk thru it, finished out at 6' H.

Taste? All tastes the same to me. I won't buy organic produce at our local grocer, that's fer sure. Why pay more for less?

It's all about chemicals. Synthetic vitamins versus "organic"? meh.... Like us, a plant requires chemicals for any benefit to come out of it. If organic plant foods weren't capable of producing (or having to start with) chemicals aka salts, the plant would not benefit, only the pocketbook of the vendor.

The following video pretty much sums up how brainwashed and duped the man on the street is by the "natural" vendors and the organic movement. Yep, "hope and change".

Highly recommend you watch to the end, it's hilarious. (warning, "strong" language)

The organic taste test at a farmer's market.

Penn & Teller: Bullshit - Organic Taste Test

ClayMango · « **Reply #190 on:** March 21, 2014, 11:01:08 AM »

Quote from: Mark in Texas on March 21, 2014, 10:25:24 AM

Zands, don't get me wrong, I'm about as organic as they come. What I don't like is the organic shysters, the hype, the rocket fuel salesmen and they are a dime a dozen. I use tons of compost, manures, etc. rarely use pesticides (because I don't have to). Planted 3 successive years of legumes and humus producing cover crops on my acreage before doing my farm biz. It cost me thousands. I put in elbon rye, Madrid yellow sweet clover and Hairy vetch, the latter two legumes. The rye was so thick you could hardly walk thru it, finished out at 6' H.

Taste? All tastes the same to me. I won't buy organic produce at our local grocer, that's fer sure. Why pay more for less?

It's all about chemicals. Synthetic vitamins versus "organic"? meh.... Like us, a plant requires chemicals for any benefit to come out of it. If organic plant foods weren't capable of producing (or having to start with) chemicals aka salts, the plant would not benefit, only the pocketbook of the vendor.

The following video pretty much sums up how brainwashed and duped the man on the street is by the "natural" vendors and the organic movement. Yep, "hope and change". Highly recommend you watch to the end, it's hilarious. (warning, "strong" language)

The organic taste test at a farmer's market.

Penn & Teller: Bullshit - Organic Taste Test

Mark,

What does Dynagro fall under. I spoke with their Rep over the phone and asked if his products was organic.. He basically told me that they have not put in any of their fertilizerd through the process, certifications, and red tape that needs to be cut to label anything Organic. But he assured me that everything they use is natural and safe. The only thing he told me to never use within 6 weeks of flowering and fruting....was their K-L-N Root hormone which is toxic for Human consumption.

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #191 on:** March 21, 2014, 11:07:54 AM »

As far as I know Dyna-Gro uses synthetic salts. Definately not organic like blood meal.

Wonder what's in the K-L-N Root hormone, not that you'd be using it at flowering or fruiting time. Weird comment!

Got it, it's Indole-3-Butyric Acid, 1-Napthaleneacetic Acid and Vitamin B-1 in a gel. Should be a winner for rooting although I like a fungicide included, Roottone F being a good one.

MangoFang · « **Reply #192 on:** March 21, 2014, 01:53:47 PM »

So this organic/non-organic "discussion" seems to be more focused on the fertilizer part of
growing fruits and veggies. Seems like you, Mark, are VERY MUCH in favor
of not using poisons like herbicides and pesticides to farm with. I can get
on board with synthetic ferts being used in the growing process in conjunction with organic(y) stuff.
I mean, I do take synthetic multi-vitamins every day AND eat fruits and veggies as well......

Call me a hypocrite!

Gary

jbaqai · « **Reply #193 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:19:07 PM »

ClayMango

How is your mango doing

By now any stress by shipping should be visible

ClayMango · « **Reply #194 on:** March 23, 2014, 12:20:59 AM »

Quote from: jbaqai on March 22, 2014, 05:19:07 PM

ClayMango

How is your mango doing

By now any stress by shipping should be visible

All 9 trees seem to be fairly happy minus the 7g LZ....seems to have dropped a few leaves...But it has also been getting sun from dawn to 11AM...which it should have been in full shade....but I'm a retard...However I have several Bud/Panicle type growth emerging....wondering if this good be flower panicles?

If so...... I will definitely let all flower panicles remain including whatever fruit comes from the Mango GOD 27-1 LZ!!!

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #195 on:** March 23, 2014, 11:12:32 AM »

Quote from: ClayMango on March 23, 2014, 12:20:59 AM

.....However I have several Bud/Panicle type growth emerging....wondering if this good be flower panicles? If so...... I will definitely let all flower panicles remain including whatever fruit comes from the Mango GOD 27-1 LZ!!!

$:-\$ And you'll be sacrificing the plant's resources that should now be going into the production of root and foliage tissue, especially considering your circumstances. This is gonna be another one of those judgement calls that will later result in an "aw shit" or "yay!". I can pull it off with my Pickering. Why? Because it was planted in the cooler month of late September, had all winter to become established which has resulted in a massive root and leaf flush, and now it's flowering which it can support. Also, the root system was not compromised when upcanned from the 3 gallon pot to the RootBuilder pot. It came directly out of the pot it had been growing in for years with no human contact to the roots and it never skipped a beat. I did this with my avocado trees from PIN (and others) - sliced the pot top to bottom with a knife, folded back the pot sides, cupped the bottom of the rootball with both hands, gently lowered it into the hole and gave it a big kiss on it's purty lil crown.

I damned near killed young grape vines (what we call 2nd leaf) by doing the noobie look-at-the-fruit drill and letting them fruit before their time instead of dropping all clusters as they appeared initially. I almost lost them. It took a year to recover from that stress.

I'm gonna say it again, if the new leaves are smaller and fewer than the previous flush....you got problems.

Word to the wise.....

ClayMango · « **Reply #196 on:** March 23, 2014, 11:55:21 AM »

I just want 1 bite of the Lemon zest GODness...just one...if it indeed does flower...I'll pick all the baby fruit except 2.

Mark in Texas · « **Reply #197 on:** March 23, 2014, 01:12:30 PM »

Quote from: ClayMango on March 23, 2014, 11:55:21 AM

I just want 1 bite of the Lemon zest GODness...just one...if it indeed does flower...I'll pick all the baby fruit except 2.

Man, do I know the feeling! If you can pull it off, go fer it. Carlos has spanked me twice for leaving any fruit on my ON. Check it out. You'll get a kick out of the new Pickering in bloom too. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9679.0

Mangosurf · « **Reply #198 on:** March 29, 2014, 03:58:13 PM »

Hey Clay,

What are you planning to use to amend your clay soil? From an old post it seems like redwood mulch and chicken manure have worked well. I'm wondering is there a specific type (shredded) or brand of redwood mulch that works the best?

Quote from: JF on July 29, 2013, 02:13:35 PM

Quote from: MangoFang on July 29, 2013, 02:08:09 PM
Thanks Nulls - so make the holes, then drop the pellets you gave me into the holes with sand....and THEN
pour the micronutrients (dissolved in water) into those holes?

What do you think?

Gary

I would also amend the soil with organic chicken manure and redwood mulch. Put a couple of layers this fall and in January. This is what worked for Eunice in her sandy soil.

zands · « **Reply #199 on:** March 29, 2014, 04:38:55 PM »

Quote from: Mangosurf on March 29, 2014, 03:58:13 PM

Hey Clay,

What are you planning to use to amend your clay soil? From an old post it seems like redwood mulch and chicken manure have worked well. I'm wondering is there a specific type (shredded) or brand of redwood mulch that works the best?

I think you can amend from above with the least expensive wood chips you can buy. Dig a relatively small hole. Plant your fruit tree in it and back fill with 50% top soil (from Home Depot what have you) and 50% native clay soil. On top maintain a 5" minimum layer wood chips in a 4 foot diameter or larger. You can sprinkle some fertilizer on top of the mulch to help it decay. Water the mulch a little bit every second day to speed decay.

The theory is as your tree gets larger your zone of good loose clay and black soil gets larger. All from wood chips decaying into humus and being mixed into the native clay by worms and other agents.

Chicken manure is not special except that it is higher nitrogen that other animal manures and can burn if you are not careful

I would possibly consider planting the tree into a raised bed say 5" high. You put a really nice soil mix into it. It helps your root system get off to a running start

****** I would not dig a huge hole or trench and amend it.

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Author Topic: My 11 Mango Tree Collection from Top Tropicals tree update (Read 72077 times)