brazos belle avocado? anybody have experience?

[treefrog]

carlos,
"dates reported by "some" nurseries they may be designed to induce buying"

too true!

much of the information about avocado trees we see on the web is provided by those who are trying to sell avocado trees.  caveat emptor!

the wurtz that i have was a nice, healthy three gallon grafted tree from top tropicals in ft myers.  i put it in the ground last spring (may? early june?)  it has done well and even grown a little.  wurtz is a dwarf with short internodes, so it is not a lot bigger.  presently, it is about five feet tall with a trunk about 1.5 inches (3.75 cm) in diameter where it emerges from the soil.  it has a lot of buds at/near the ends of the branches, but they have not gotten to the stage where i can tell if they are leaf buds or blossom buds.  i suspect that there may be some of each.  there are enough buds that if they all turn out to be leaves, i will have a VERY bushy plant!
with the mexicola, i saw flower buds about a month before i saw one open (today).  if this time pattern holds true with the wurtz, i can expect the first flower to open about a month after the time when i can see identifiable blossom buds.  so far, i can't see blossom buds, and i can't make a good guess about when i will, so i can expect wurtz flowers after a waiting period of one month PLUS an unknown amount of time.   that's kind of open - ended.
once i do get a wurtz blossom, i CAN make a guess about maturity time.  judging from other varieties, blossom to maturity takes about seven to ten months, give or take.  that's a little indefinite, but not quite as loose as the date for the first blossom.
there are even more uncertainties.  the dates listed on the web by nurseries and university ag departments are based on conditions either in california or in south florida (plus a few australians).  NOT ONE source on the web is basing their dates on conditions that prevail in a greenhouse in north florida.

when will my wurtz have a ripe fruit on it?  the real answer is that i don't know.  but i can make a projection (not a prediction).  picking a date out of the air, i'll say that IF (remember that word) i get a blossom bud on the tree on the vernal equinox - march 21st, i MAY get a blossom sometime late in april, which, IF the bees are on duty, MIGHT turn into a ripe fruit sometime between christmas 2014 and memorial day 2015.  maybe.  remember, the real answer is that i just don't know.

...or, my wurtz may not bloom at all this year, and i have to add a year to all those dates.

[CTMIAMI]

Keep us posted on the Wurtz I think you are getting a lot of flowers.

[treefrog]

greenhouse under construction pic

i'm a dinosaur.  i still use film for photography.  the pics i have in electronic format are limited.  here's one my son took of me converting a former water tower into a heavy duty deer stand.  the greenhouse is under construction in the background.  it's all closed in now, but i have a hunch it will be a work in progress for quite a while.  plumbing, lights, shelves,    ...other   ...etc.




footprint - 24' x 30'  headroom 16' where it hits the handrail of the 2nd storey porch.  corrugated plastic panels over pressure treated wood frame.

[Mark in Texas]

Recommend greenhouse grade poly carb panels like Dynaglas Solar Soft.  Don't scrimp on the  covering.  To the plant it's the most important element of greenhouse design.

Mark

[LEOOEL]

treefrog, It's exciting that you have the 'Wurtz' avocado and that you're reporting to us on its progress, thank you.

That treehouse is coming along nicely, best wishes for success on that project.

[Jsvand5]

My poncho is blooming nicely now. Anyone know how cold these super cold hardy avocados can take before the blooms are.killed? I'm supposed to get mid 30s this week.

[CTMIAMI]

My poncho is blooming nicely now. Anyone know how cold these super cold hardy avocados can take before the blooms are.killed? I'm supposed to get mid 30s this week.

The fact your Poncho is flowering at this time in Ocala is of great interest to me. I have looked on line and not been able to find its flower type. Do you know? 

[treefrog]

My poncho is blooming nicely now. Anyone know how cold these super cold hardy avocados can take before the blooms are.killed? I'm supposed to get mid 30s this week.

my poncho has blossom buds - since about two - three weeks ago.  they look like they're getting close to ready.  it is my understanding that the blossoms can survive nights into the mid -  high twenties as long as it warms back up by the time they open in the mid-morning.

[CTMIAMI]

My poncho is blooming nicely now. Anyone know how cold these super cold hardy avocados can take before the blooms are.killed? I'm supposed to get mid 30s this week.

my poncho has blossom buds - since about two - three weeks ago.  they look like they're getting close to ready.  it is my understanding that the blossoms can survive nights into the mid -  high twenties as long as it warms back up by the time they open in the mid-morning.
[/quote
]Do you have any open flowers now? I'm trying to find the flower type of Poncho.

[treefrog]

carlos,

no poncho flowers open yet, but it looks like soon.  i will let you know when it happens.  the weather here is on the cool side.  that has been known to make the a-b flowering pattern irregular.  we'll just have to see what happens.

[CTMIAMI]

Thanks keep me posted

[TucsonKen]

I found this old thread and thought I'd add some firsthand, up-to-date information in case anyone is still intereseted. I live in Tucson and have a Wilma purchased from Devine Avocados in Texas. I planted it in the ground in 2013; it bore 14 fruit in 2015, and more than 75 in 2016. I have had no cold-related problems yet, but we've also had warm winters, so I can't vouch for the mid-teens hardiness reputation. The fruit is delicious, but anyone considering buying Wilma (or Brazos Belle) should be aware that the black, shiny skin is thin and edible, like a tomato's, and virtually impossible to peel--so even though there's no negative taste or texture from the skin, if you're bothered by seeing black bits in your guacamole it's probably not the choice for you. Also, the seed is loose, and the seedcoat adheres lightly to the inside of the fruit. It's easy to remove, and comes out in big pieces, but it's fussier than varieties where the seedcoat sticks to the seed. I think any negative opinions on taste are from people who are either growing it in an unsuitable location or have harvested the fruit too soon. It needs to be entirely black and shiny, and should separate from the stem by rotating it upward with a very slight "tweak."

[starch]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for posting your Wilma experiences here!
I also love the pic you shared with me of your Wilma tree, that thing is just gorgeous. Would you mind posting it here to share?

[Mark in Texas]

I found this old thread and thought I'd add some firsthand, up-to-date information in case anyone is still intereseted. I live in Tucson and have a Wilma purchased from Devine Avocados in Texas. I planted it in the ground in 2013; it bore 14 fruit in 2015, and more than 75 in 2016. I have had no cold-related problems yet, but we've also had warm winters, so I can't vouch for the mid-teens hardiness reputation. The fruit is delicious, but anyone considering buying Wilma (or Brazos Belle) should be aware that the black, shiny skin is thin and edible, like a tomato's, and virtually impossible to peel--so even though there's no negative taste or texture from the skin, if you're bothered by seeing black bits in your guacamole it's probably not the choice for you. Also, the seed is loose, and the seedcoat adheres lightly to the inside of the fruit. It's easy to remove, and comes out in big pieces, but it's fussier than varieties where the seedcoat sticks to the seed. I think any negative opinions on taste are from people who are either growing it in an unsuitable location or have harvested the fruit too soon. It needs to be entirely black and shiny, and should separate from the stem by rotating it upward with a very slight "tweak."

Yeah, thanks for posting.  Nurserymen are really pushing these TexMex avocados who have a really bad taste reputation.  Joey is one example where folks can't stand it including me.  I also want a cado that has leather skin as I like to spoon out the meat and the aggravation of the seed coat clinging to the meat is not good either.   Those Wilma are an exception apparently.

Good luck!

[TucsonKen]

Yes, I, too, would prefer an easy-to-peel, leathery skin. I would also rather have a tight seedcoat. When I find an avocado with great taste and no negative features that will grow and produce well in Tucson, I'll definitely want to plant one in my yard! Until then, though, I'm thrilled to have a source of abundant, tasty avocados close to my back door.

In the meantime, I have an in-ground Opal about the same age as the Wilma, but much slower-growing, that has only produced a single fruit so far but will hopefully do a little better this year. I also just planted a Mexicola Grande I grafted from a local nurseryman's tree, which he says produces excellent fruit, as well as a young Aravaipa grafted by a fruit enthusiast in Phoenix. I recently grafted a scion from a huge tree in the courtyard of a local monastery which I hope will "take" and grow well, since the sisters who live there say they have enjoyed fruit from their tree for many years (it's a Mexican seedling and their description of the fruit sounds similar to Wilma). A nearby resort also has a productive tree which I assume is probably a seedling as well, and their chef serves the fruit to the guests so I assume it must taste pretty good as well. I hope to get cuttings and give it a try, also. My goal is to keep looking for promising varieties to try in my yard so I can compare them over time in terms of hardiness, heat tolerance, productivity, and taste. A lot of people still think avocados can't be grown in Tucson, so I'm sharing my own experiences whenever I can.

@Starch, here's a shot of the Wilma a few weeks ago, before heavy pruning. The little Opal (about three feet tall) is visible in the left foreground.

[WaterFowler]

TK, how does the Wilma handle your heat spells? I know your area doesn't see temp quite as high as in Phoenix or here, but you guys occasionally see 110 temperatures don't you?

I'm looking for a decent tasting, heat tolerant avocado if such a thing exists. I know there is the Aravaipa, but I've heard nothing but bad reports on taste. I planted 2 Mexicolas and a Haas 6 years ago. The Haas didn't make it to the end of the summer. One of the Mexis gave up the ghost at the end of the 2nd summer. I still have one Mexicola 6 years later but it's only 5 feet tall still. It grows and grows during the fall, winter and spring, then the summer comes along and kills all the top growth. Poor thing, I feel like a bad parent and should donate it to a nice family in temperate San Diego. 

[BohicaBob]

I have a Brazos Belle which I like.  I also have Joey (a graft of mine made before the parent I bought died), Fantastic, Day (grafts of mine), Mexicola, Bacon, Winter Mexican (a graft of mine still too little to fruit yet), Lila (I killed it due to excess nitrogen), and a Brogdon (just planted though I had 3 of them years ago).

I hope to finally have a Joey to eat this year. People's tastes differ, sometimes a lot one really should try various kinds if possible.

Moreover, what one can grow is quite dependent on where one lives, and the whims of mother nature.  A mild winter is being enjoyed in my area of the country so far, but it's been 18 degrees F in 1989. As a result, I grow cold-hardy and very-cold-hardy avocado varieties in my yard just in case mother nature changes her mind.

For example, in 2015 it got to 24-25 degrees F a couple of times during the winter (I use remote thermometers to monitor outside temps during the winter).  Most of the blossoms on the Mexicola and Day avocado trees were destroyed except for the blossoms located inside or near the center of these particular trees.  But the blossoms on the Lila and Fantastic were unaffected - note that all of these trees are all located very near each other in an open area on the north side of my home.

[Mark in Texas]

Yes, I, too, would prefer an easy-to-peel, leathery skin. I would also rather have a tight seedcoat. When I find an avocado with great taste and no negative features that will grow and produce well in Tucson, I'll definitely want to plant one in my yard! Until then, though, I'm thrilled to have a source of abundant, tasty avocados close to my back door.

Just harvested first Oro Negro which had a bland taste most likely cause I didn't let it hang long enough.  NEVER experienced such a tough, leather like peel, much more rigid than Hass.

In the meantime, I have an in-ground Opal about the same age as the Wilma, but much slower-growing, that has only produced a single fruit so far but will hopefully do a little better this year. I also just planted a Mexicola Grande I grafted from a local nurseryman's tree, which he says produces excellent fruit, as well as a young Aravaipa grafted by a fruit enthusiast in Phoenix. I recently grafted a scion from a huge tree in the courtyard of a local monastery which I hope will "take" and grow well, since the sisters who live there say they have enjoyed fruit from their tree for many years (it's a Mexican seedling and their description of the fruit sounds similar to Wilma). A nearby resort also has a productive tree which I assume is probably a seedling as well, and their chef serves the fruit to the guests so I assume it must taste pretty good as well. I hope to get cuttings and give it a try, also. My goal is to keep looking for promising varieties to try in my yard so I can compare them over time in terms of hardiness, heat tolerance, productivity, and taste. A lot of people still think avocados can't be grown in Tucson, so I'm sharing my own experiences whenever I can.

Wow, very cool.  I've tried Mexicola and Stewart on my Joey.  None of them took.  Both have excellent reps regarding fruit quality and being pure Mexican are very cold hardy.   Our local grafting guru put Mexicola on Wilma or Opal, forget which.

Good luck!`

[TucsonKen]

WaterFowler, since its first summer when I protected it with shadecloth, the Wilma has seemed completely unaffected by the heat, although it did get some sunburned bark on branches exposed through pruning. The Opal, on the other hand, loses its newest growth during the heat of summer. From what I understand, Brazos Belle is genetically identical to Wilma, and much easier to acquire if you don't happen to live in Texas.

Forum member Starch lives in Phoenix and has a young tree grafted from my Wilma. He said it burned back badly during last summer's heat wave that peaked at 123 degrees(!) in his yard, while the tree was still in a pot. He has since planted it in the ground, but says it has a ways to go before it will be fully recovered. In addition to Tucson's being considerably cooler than Phoenix, I think my tree's heat tolerance was substantially increased by having its roots in the ground under thick mulch, with plenty of water, and dense foliage that shades the trunk all the way down to the soil.

[TucsonKen]

Bohica bob--How do you like the taste of your Fantastic? That's one I've thought about trying. Do you peel it, or eat the skin?

Mark in Texas--is your tough-skinned Oro Negro easy to peel?

[BohicaBob]

I like Fantastic and I peel the skin off.  This is a very fast growing tree and, at least for me here in East Central Florida, a terrific producer.

One of the ways I consume the large amount of avocados I have (besides giving lots of them away to people AND squirrels) is to use them in green salads and in avocado sandwiches (whole wheat or multi-grain bread toasted with cut up avocado and dark brown sugar).  Of course my avocados are used in many Tex-mex and Latin dishes as well.

Since I have so many different kinds avocados with different maturity times, I usually have this fruit from May/June to November/December.  That's lots of avocado eating! 

[TucsonKen]

Thanks for the info--sounds like you're in avocado heaven!

[Mark in Texas]

Bohica bob--How do you like the taste of your Fantastic? That's one I've thought about trying. Do you peel it, or eat the skin?
Mark in Texas--is your tough-skinned Oro Negro easy to peel?

No way to peel ON.  I use a large spoon and the meat comes out whole and clean.  The skin is rock hard and rigid.

[TucsonKen]

Well, with ON's armor plating, at least you don't have to worry about wind damage. Wilma skin is so delicate it takes very little to injure the fruit.

[Mark in Texas]

Well, with ON's armor plating, at least you don't have to worry about wind damage. Wilma skin is so delicate it takes very little to injure the fruit.

Yep, not good.  And the thin skin types are usually susceptible to anthracnose pressures especially during rainy weather.