Author Topic: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?  (Read 2130 times)

lemons4us

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Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« on: March 30, 2020, 07:18:47 PM »
Since we're staying home in WA state, I thought I would re-pot some of my citrus that need it. On hand I have Reptibark, coarse perlite (and some pumice) and lime (not dolomite though), but I do not have peat. I do have a couple blocks of coir that I can use instead. Would this be recommended? I've read that coir is more acidic than peat, and I want to be sure to get the proper pH in my potting medium. I would appreciate the expert's opinion/advice.
Thanks in advance.

Thanks all. I haven't been able to find a way to get an accurate pH for coir or Reptibark.
Millet, I appreciate your expertise and have been following your advice since Citrus Forum on Garden Web. Peat for me is also too hydrophobic.I will try coir - should I also add lime?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 04:36:23 PM by lemons4us »

Daintree

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 12:20:08 AM »
No, I think coco coir is more toward the neutral side. Peat is very acidic, around 4 (?) whereas coco coir is more around 5 or higher.  Most of the potting mix I buy is a combo of the two, although I have planted things in mixes without peat, as long as they don't need something really acidic, like miracle fruit, etc.

Cheers,
Carolyn

lebmung

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 09:45:25 AM »
Any good quality potting commercial potting mix has peat in it to a large degree, over 60-70%. Just read the label. Coco coir can be used, but not alone. Tap water usually has a higher pH which will rise the ph of your mix. Mixing soil based on peat at ph 6 would be a better option. Very acidic peat the one used for bluberries is not good. Also if you try to lower your pH using lime, it's a gambling method as you most probably don't have an accurate expensive pH meter.
Citrus needs pH 6 to 6.5 not 4 to 5, for store bought pot citrus. Others don't.

Millet

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 10:46:00 AM »
I've used coir, and find it a good material for citrus.   The pH of coir is, depending of it source, 5.5 to 6.8 which is correct for citrus.  Depending on the source of peat, the pH of peat is 3.6 to 4.5.  An extra good point in favor of coir (at least for me) is that when dry coir is a lot easer to rewet than peat moss.  Growing in mediums such a 5-1-1 or 5-2-1 where the drain through (water pass through) is rapid, coir  retains more of the water than peat, but still allows for the higher oxygen level for the roots to respire. Chemically, coir which comes from the coconut contains potassium,  manganese, copper, zinc and iron.  I like coir.

Lovetoplant

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 03:07:15 AM »
I used pure coir premixed with perilite (made by RootFarm) to repot my tangerine tree.  The tree stunt and leaves started to turn yellow with few leaves drop after a month.  I then repotted it again with only just one part of coir mixes with soil and peat and the tree started to recover.   Since then I only use a little of coir as mixed.  I think it holds too much water and suffocates the roots

lebmung

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 05:01:18 AM »
Your mixture didn't affect the tree.
Something else did salt.
Coconut coir growing close to the ocean have elevated levels of salt within the husk. They don't wash it and it will be more expensive. You don't know which coconut is of good quality unless you test it.
The rootstock was probably a Pt hybrid which are very sensitive to salt leading to death.

I used pure coir premixed with perilite (made by RootFarm) to repot my tangerine tree.  The tree stunt and leaves started to turn yellow with few leaves drop after a month.  I then repotted it again with only just one part of coir mixes with soil and peat and the tree started to recover.   Since then I only use a little of coir as mixed.  I think it holds too much water and suffocates the roots

Millet

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 10:23:27 AM »
lebmung is correct.  The nursery industry which uses coir, always rinses out coir with water infused with Mg (Epson salts) and Ca (Calcium Nitrate) before using to flush out any possible salts. The salts if any depends on where the coconut tree grew. inland or on the coast.  Today most all coir distributors has already done the chemical flush for you. If it does not say on the package, a internet search of the manufacturer should answer the question. Also a comment on Lovetoplant's post, the long fibers of coir absorb moisture, but also drain quickly, so roots experience moist but not soggy growing conditions.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 12:20:18 PM by Millet »

lemons4us

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 01:20:43 PM »
Thanks all.

Millet, I appreciate your expertise and have been following your advice since Citrus Forum on Garden Web. Peat for me is also too hydrophobic.I will try coir - should I also add lime? It turns out the lime I have on hand is Dolomite.
I'm concerned about getting the correct pH in my mix and I haven't been able to find a good way to get a pH reading on such a coarse mix - as when I use Reptibark.

Advice?

Millet

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
The pH of coir, depending on the manufacture is normally 5.5 to 6.8 which is very close to the exact pH for citrus growth.  Using a pH meter in such a lose medium as 5-1-1 would be difficult.  The first thing that comes to mind is the use of the pH paper strips that can be found in many larger garden centers.   Stick the strip down into the 5-1-1 and leave for a few minutes, then check the color change.    You could also take the pH of the affluent water. by setting a small container filled with your 5-1-1 into a larger clean container and fill the larger container up to the rim of the container holding the 5-1-1 with distilled water.  Let it soak for an hour and then take the pH of the water.  Just an idea.  Actually using coir with its pH range of 5.5 to 6.8, you will be very close to the recommended 6.5 pH.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 10:42:58 AM by Millet »

Vlad

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2020, 10:34:39 PM »
All pH strips I have used require that they be dipped into the liquid for a few seconds, NOT minutes because the color will change with the additional time. pH strips from garden centers may be different from those I have used, although I doubt it..

Millet

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2020, 10:45:05 AM »
Thanks Vlad you could certainly be correct.  Thanks for pointing this out.

lemons4us

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2020, 12:16:33 PM »
Thank you for the helpful pH info. I had tried the test kits where you add a bit of soil to a solution - but since the bark is so bulky that didn't work.
Any idea of the pH of Reptibark? That's the unknown for my 5-1-1. I'm trying to determine if I should add lime and how much. Any guidance on that would be appreciated!

Millet

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2020, 01:22:53 PM »
The wood chips of Reptibark is fir wood.  The pH is 4.2

lemons4us

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Re: Using coir instead of peat in 5-1-1?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2020, 01:34:20 PM »
So helpful, thank you!