Author Topic: Original Haden Mango Tree  (Read 7046 times)

Mr. Clean

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Original Haden Mango Tree
« on: February 26, 2017, 02:09:22 AM »
The Original Haden Mango Tree, planted by Captain Haden in 1902 in Coral Gables.  Special Thanks to Squam for finding the tree.  Amazing to think that all Florida mangoes in the grocery stores are descendants of this tree.


 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 12:26:38 PM by Mr. Clean »
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mangomongo

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 07:27:27 AM »
I believe I have seen the original Kent tree in cocoanut grove. A friend of mine was renting the pool house/apartment while she going to the FIU nurse anesthetist program. The property owner was a very kind gentleman in his 80's who introduced himself as "MR KENT", it was an amazing piece of property directly on bay shore dr. I was told by my friend that I could take some of the avocado's but not to touch the mango tree because Mr Kent had gone on and on about how it was a special one of a kind tree and that people where always trying to get his mangoes. At that time I had no idea what a good mango was and abided by the rules, It wasn't until several years later that I figured it out. After finding out that the world has been tricked by the grocery store mangos. 

Squam256

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 08:04:01 AM »
I believe I have seen the original Kent tree in cocoanut grove. A friend of mine was renting the pool house/apartment while she going to the FIU nurse anesthetist program. The property owner was a very kind gentleman in his 80's who introduced himself as "MR KENT", it was an amazing piece of property directly on bay shore dr. I was told by my friend that I could take some of the avocado's but not to touch the mango tree because Mr Kent had gone on and on about how it was a special one of a kind tree and that people where always trying to get his mangoes. At that time I had no idea what a good mango was and abided by the rules, It wasn't until several years later that I figured it out. After finding out that the world has been tricked by the grocery store mangos.

The original Kent tree is actually on Poinciana Ave.


BohicaBob

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 09:45:05 AM »
My in-laws purchased an old mango grove circa 1970 in Haiku, Maui that dates back to the 1920's. The two main mango varieties on the property are Haden and Pirie.  I used to pick the fruit and sell them as no one has cared for the orchard for some 60+ years as far as I know.

Nevertheless, the surviving trees, as you might expect in the tropics, are simply huge and at times incredibly productive. 

edzone9

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 10:18:56 AM »
Great Find !..

Ed
Zone 10

mangomongo

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 01:41:24 PM »
I believe I have seen the original Kent tree in cocoanut grove. A friend of mine was renting the pool house/apartment while she going to the FIU nurse anesthetist program. The property owner was a very kind gentleman in his 80's who introduced himself as "MR KENT", it was an amazing piece of property directly on bay shore dr. I was told by my friend that I could take some of the avocado's but not to touch the mango tree because Mr Kent had gone on and on about how it was a special one of a kind tree and that people where always trying to get his mangoes. At that time I had no idea what a good mango was and abided by the rules, It wasn't until several years later that I figured it out. After finding out that the world has been tricked by the grocery store mangos.

The original Kent tree is actually on Poinciana Ave.
This reminds me of when I found out PRO wrestling was FAKE!!!  Ok, maybe not that devastating.  I wander what the old guy was talking with his "special" tree?

Squam256

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 02:13:31 PM »
I believe I have seen the original Kent tree in cocoanut grove. A friend of mine was renting the pool house/apartment while she going to the FIU nurse anesthetist program. The property owner was a very kind gentleman in his 80's who introduced himself as "MR KENT", it was an amazing piece of property directly on bay shore dr. I was told by my friend that I could take some of the avocado's but not to touch the mango tree because Mr Kent had gone on and on about how it was a special one of a kind tree and that people where always trying to get his mangoes. At that time I had no idea what a good mango was and abided by the rules, It wasn't until several years later that I figured it out. After finding out that the world has been tricked by the grocery store mangos.

The original Kent tree is actually on Poinciana Ave.
This reminds me of when I found out PRO wrestling was FAKE!!!  Ok, maybe not that devastating.  I wander what the old guy was talking with his "special" tree?

Probably was just fond of the fruit and didn't like giving it away. Could have been a Kent family member.

The original tree was on Leith Kent's property. If it's the tree I believe it is it's in someone's front yard now and quite tall, or at least was some years ago.


AlexTrees

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 03:58:48 PM »
Very very cool! I wonder if it still pumps out a lot of fruit??

Tropicdude

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 05:10:52 PM »
Very very cool! I wonder if it still pumps out a lot of fruit??

Probably not as much as it used to,  I believe Mangoes start lowering production past 40 years or so,  not to say they can't still shell out fruit.  after all they can get pretty large.   older tree like this could be pollarded  and "rejuvenated" .  but I would not suggest that for this majestic Haden tree.  he did his job,  let him enjoy retirement.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

Squam256

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 05:41:03 PM »
Very very cool! I wonder if it still pumps out a lot of fruit??

When I had last seen it maybe 6 or 7 years ago, it had a decent crop leftover in July. I believe the owner told me it still made good crops. It's very close to Biscayne Bay so disease pressures are pretty low.

Apparently it got wrecked pretty badly by Hurricane Andrew but rebounded well.

LarryG

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 09:19:43 PM »
From the book, it looks like the proper spelling should be "Haden"

Yes, the spelling of the name is indeed Haden. And Captain Haden obtained the seed (in a box of 4 dozen mangos) from Reverend Elbridge Gale of West Palm Beach. These mangos came from a Mulgoba tree planted on Reverend Gale's property in the Northwood section of West Palm Beach which he called Mangonia. Captain Haden died a year after planting the seeds in Coconut Grove and it was his widow Florence that raised the 48 seedlings and selected the best and sent it to the USDA where it was named "Haden".
PS....Reverend Gale was a retired professor from Kansas Sate Agricultural College where one of his students was David Fairchild. Elbridge Gale is mentioned in Fairchild's book, The World was my Garden.

OCchris1

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 01:07:30 AM »
I love this stuff! Thank you all for the research and all the cool information. Chris
-Chris

palologrower

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 03:46:28 AM »
visiting this tree should be a must-see for every person from hawaii.  if you ask the typical hawaii person what kind of mangoes are there in the islands.  they're either going to say:  common, haden, (white) pirie, and idk.

BohicaBob

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2017, 09:37:02 AM »
Very true about Hawaii and Hadens.  In fact, on Maui, the Haden was THE mango to grow and/or buy for as long as I can remember despite the fact that this species has serious problems with anthracnose and other diseases when grown on the wetter side of the islands.  But growing Hadens in say Kihei or Lahaina worked very well.

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 12:41:37 PM »
Very very cool! I wonder if it still pumps out a lot of fruit??

When I had last seen it maybe 6 or 7 years ago, it had a decent crop leftover in July. I believe the owner told me it still made good crops. It's very close to Biscayne Bay so disease pressures are pretty low.

Apparently it got wrecked pretty badly by Hurricane Andrew but rebounded well.

Someone please correct me.

The DNA would only get refreshed with a new seed. That means that all haden trees are still copies of copies of copies of the original DNA. How long and how many times can the DNA be copied before it develops defects?

Is a trees lifetime dependent upon the birth of the original seed, or when it was grafted?


visiting this tree should be a must-see for every person from hawaii.  if you ask the typical hawaii person what kind of mangoes are there in the islands.  they're either going to say:  common, haden, (white) pirie, and idk.

This is so true. Everyone says common (wild) mango, Haden mango, Rapoza, cigar mango (which I can only think is a derivative of Himsigar). Most (maybe 90+%) here say Haden is the best mango. It typically comes from the dry west side of the island, however I had a good crop of Haden mangos last year.  When I tell others there are better/newer varieties, I get blank stares.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 12:46:00 PM by FrankDrebinOfFruits »

Squam256

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 01:04:41 PM »
Very very cool! I wonder if it still pumps out a lot of fruit??

When I had last seen it maybe 6 or 7 years ago, it had a decent crop leftover in July. I believe the owner told me it still made good crops. It's very close to Biscayne Bay so disease pressures are pretty low.

Apparently it got wrecked pretty badly by Hurricane Andrew but rebounded well.

Someone please correct me.

The DNA would only get refreshed with a new seed. That means that all haden trees are still copies of copies of copies of the original DNA. How long and how many times can the DNA be copied before it develops defects?

Is a trees lifetime dependent upon the birth of the original seed, or when it was grafted?


When it was grafted.

As far as changes in the DNA, there can be mutations. e.g. 'Davis Haden'. Though this can happen, it likely occurs extremely infrequently. I've never seen a scientific analysis though that attempts to gauge that frequency .


palmcity

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Re: Original Hayden Mango Tree
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2017, 05:30:11 PM »
Someone please correct me.
The DNA would only get refreshed with a new seed. That means that all haden trees are still copies of copies of copies of the original DNA. How long and how many times can the DNA be copied before it develops defects?

Is a trees lifetime dependent upon the birth of the original seed, or when it was grafted?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree
In botany, a tree is a perennial plant with an elongated stem, or trunk, supporting branches and leaves in most species. In some usages, the definition of a tree may be narrower, including only woody plants with secondary growth

The growth time from the seed would be the calculation for life of the first Haden tree.
Once a graft is cut the graft is not a tree but a graft.
Once the graft takes on a rootstock (potential tree for true large tree) you can call it a Haden grafted on whatever rootstock you used for your new tree.
Continue doing this for many new trees if the graft takes. If the graft fails, you are killing grafts (not trees).
A tree is usually killed by environment changes or pathogens or other predators (humans). Some examples: https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/430/430-210/430-210_pdf.pdf

Although all trees eventually die, The Haden is now thousands of trees with new trees being produced from grafts constantly.

DNA change with time on new grafts/new Haden trees/??? Are there any "Haden" trees with new genes being passed on to new type 2 or 3 Haden lines???  Is your Haden tree now really exactly the same genes as the original Haden???

In humans, we usually die with DNA/RNA changes. This might happen with the new grafted tree that becomes the new Haden. However, some believe gene change within the graft can occur from the new root section or trunk of the new tree influencing the graft and a beneficial DNA change. With new genes being swapped and passed on in future grafts.
1.    http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/05/01/unintentional-genetic-engineering-grafted-plants-trade-gen/   
"This marker sequence turned up in all the cells where genes had been swapped, which means that the plants were trading in very large chunks of DNA, or even their entire chloroplast genomes. The genes from the main nuclear genome, however, showed no signs of movement."

2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4269114/
"With increasing pressure the bark of each in contact with the other wears away, bringing their cambia in contact, leading eventually to a functional graft union. Most aerial grafts occur when a branch from one tree is “caught” in the forked branch of another tree, which is analogous to the compression between adjacent roots (K. W. Mudge, personal communication, with permission).

Assessment of the evolutionary significance of grafting involves discussion at two levels: its benefits for plant survival and its potential role in the formation of new species."

3.  https://www.newscientist.com/article/2079813-farmers-may-have-been-accidentally-making-gmos-for-millennia/
"Then, in 2014, another study found that the entire nucleus of a cell, containing the main genome, could be transferred across grafts. The transferred nucleus can be added to an existing cell nucleus – fusing the two genomes and potentially creating a new species.

Triple whammy
Now a team led by Pal Maliga of Rutgers University in New Jersey has shown that cells also swap mitochondria – energy-generating organelles with a small genome of their own – across grafts.

And once entire mitochondria from one plant get into the cells of another, they mix their DNA with that of the existing mitochondria."

This means all three kinds of plant genome can be swapped via grafts.

4.  http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/27377/title/Grafts-guide-gene-exchange/
"When two plants are grafted together, they share much more than water and minerals: They also swap genetic material"
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 08:06:53 PM by palmcity »

FrankDrebinOfFruits

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2017, 09:21:52 PM »
I wonder if the defects aren't widely discussed, unintentionally. When someone has a tree that produces no fruit or poor fruit, its probably discarded without study or qualification (i.e. nobody autopsies a dead tree). When a tree dies of disease or what might be an otherwise natural occurrence, its probably blamed on fluke, owner error or environment circumstances, and the owner just starts over again.

A friend had several grafted citrus trees that all died of termites. The termites bored out the center of the trunk until the tree fell over.  There were probably 8+ trees, all the same variety of citrus that this occurred on. My friend blamed the defect on the nursery that grafted the trees, never on the genetics.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 09:28:42 PM by FrankDrebinOfFruits »

Central Floridave

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 12:52:10 PM »
I'm not sure if this link works but an interesting read by John Beach in 1903 on the Florida Horticulture Society.

  Page 36 on Mango:

https://books.google.com/books?id=kQkYC9l4kuwC&lpg=PA132&dq=major%20tiffin%20courtenay&pg=RA1-PA36#v=onepage&q=mango&f=false

Central Floridave

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2017, 11:26:38 AM »
I probably obsessively read a few of those Florida Horticultural Society reports from the early 1900s. (from link above)  It is interesting to see what they knew back then and pretty good literature.  Seeing that Henry Flagler, along with others (like Dr David Fairchild) was an honorary member and spoke a few times is cool also.   I guess those journals are very much like this forum and other online resources today.  Passing on knowledge and helping others in-turn comes back and helps yourself. 

Central Floridave

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Re: Original Haden Mango Tree
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2017, 10:18:26 PM »
http://www.miamiherald.com/living/food-drink/article158669284.html

A 100-year-old tree stands in a Miami yard. Is it the ‘granddaddy of all Florida mangoes?’

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/living/food-drink/article158669284.html#storylink=cpy