Author Topic: Hardy citrus in PNW  (Read 2475 times)

SoCal2warm

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Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2023, 01:49:09 PM »
"It's good where we're not." You can paraphrase this saying for plants as well. While Russians are looking for American varieties, such as “ninth ball” and the like, Americans are getting Russian varieties like “Parfianka” from somewhere.
I considered myself very familiar with rare pomegranate varieties and had never heard of "ninth ball".
I imagine it might perhaps be the same with the variety "Parfianka" in Russia (the limited parts of Russia where hardy pomegranate varieties can grow).

I think the variety "Parfianka" originated from former Soviet botanist Gregory Levin's surveys in Turkmenistan. I do not really know for sure if it has more hardiness (that is only what I heard) but do know that it has survived for me, seems to be doing very well, whereas I know of a regular pomegranate variety that was planted in a park (not too far away from here) that died, apparently unable to survive the winter, and was only able to live 2 or 3 years.


I live in Cincinnati and I can't grow grapes either
It is possible to grow grapes in Ohio but only certain special hardy varieties can be grown easily. I suspect it has as much to do with the summer humidity as the winter cold.
There are several vineyards not too far from Cincinnati.

"American and French hybrid types are better suited to Ohio growing conditions because they tend to be more winter-hardy."
https://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/hyg-1423

(Though I personally prefer the more pure flavor of "European" vinifera grapes. Concord is representative of flavor of the American family)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2023, 02:02:42 PM by SoCal2warm »

bussone

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Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2023, 06:04:27 PM »
I live in Cincinnati and I can't grow grapes either

You probably can, but you’ll be limited in kind.

Concords happily grow in even eastern Michigan. You need the lake in western Michigan for wine grapes, and mostly Riesling and other German types.

bussone

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Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2023, 02:49:13 PM »
Poncirus aside, what other citrus varieties were native to mountains?
I do not really know but I don't think any citrus species are native to mountains. Poncirus trifoliata has been growing wild in the mountains of North Carolina though.

I think Poncirus polyandra might almost grow at what would be considered mountain elevation, though it is not very high. It rarely gets very hot there but also rarely goes below freezing, except at higher mountain elevations. Fumin county, Yunnan, China, where average daily highs do not rise above 68°F for half of the year.
This source says P. polyandra grows in forests on mountain slopes; at an elevation of around 2400 meters, southeast Yunnan (Funing).
Q. Ding et al., Acta Bot. Yunnan. 6: 292. 1984, not Citrus polyandra Tanaka (1928).
www.efloras.org , Rutacae
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=107164

Even Khasi papeda only grows in the "hills" and not mountains, and the temperatures never get very cold in the Meghalaya part of India)

Khasi might be something to consider. The Khasi Hills are a subtropical rainforest characterized by cool summers and occasionally freezing winters. Which sounds a lot like the PNW. While it may not be able to tolerate the lows that Ichang can, it may be able to tolerate less summer heat than Ichang seems to need.

To answer my own question, the citrus varieties known to populate higher altitudes include poncirus (trifoliata and polyandra); generally the papedas, but especially Ichang (cavaleriei) and Khasi (latipes), and generally tolerant fortunella.

Some of the same trends exist for Szechuan pepper, which is found in similar areas, and is one of the few rutaceae (zanthoxylum) which is hardier than poncirus. As an extremely general statement, it's also interesting that the hardier citrus relatives seem to be found in roughly the areas you'll find tea (camellia sinensis). This seems to hold true even in the US.

The advantage of hill/mountain species is a tendency towards being able to handle lowered summer heat and a faster transition to cold/freezing. Whether or not they can handle less moisture really depends on which side of a range they are on.

Poncirus crossing with fortunella is decently explored. Ilya and others are working poncirus through Ichang. Is anyone noodling with Khasi?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Hardy citrus in PNW
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2023, 10:21:12 AM »
Khasi might be something to consider. The Khasi Hills are a subtropical rainforest characterized by cool summers and occasionally freezing winters. Which sounds a lot like the PNW. While it may not be able to tolerate the lows that Ichang can, it may be able to tolerate less summer heat than Ichang seems to need.
I'm skeptical. The Khasi Hills have much more moderate temperatures and a much longer growing season than the PNW.
You can compare growing degree days between Olympia and Shillong (India) for example.
https://weatherspark.com/y/149040/Average-Weather-at-Lokpriya-Gopinath-Bordoloi-International-Airport-India-Year-Round#Figures-Temperature
https://weatherspark.com/y/894/Average-Weather-in-Olympia-Washington-United-States-Year-Round
In Shillong, by late March, the average high is already 86 and the low 66°F , much warmer than Olympia earlier in the year.