Tree Injection

[Tropicdude]

Although this topic has come up in the forum,  its within threads that had nothing really to do with Tree Injection.

The Tree Injection technology I will be writing about is not to be confused with those systems used to treat trees for pests, and emergency application of nutrients. there seems to be a lot of information on these things online, and commercial products available such as "Chemjet" or "Arborjet" we are not even talking about root injections.

The Tree injection I am presenting here, is feeding trees water and nutrients directly into its vascular system, like an I.V.   the benefits are numerous, specially for commercial growers.

* No waste, all nutrients go into the tree.
* No contamination of ground water, rivers as no fertilizer is applied to the soil.
* Less weeds, because you are not fertilizing or even watering the area around the tree.
* Complete control over what goes into your tree , in traditional methods you are limited to what is absorbed by the roots of the tree, if Ph is off, some nutrient do not
   get absorbed, or some nutrients are block due to high levels of other minerals in the soil.  with tree injections you by-pass all this.
* Knowing the water problems in some places, finding ways of using it more efficiently is important.
* the limited experiments done shows increase in quality and production.

I am no expert in this, I am only sharing information I have found on this interesting technique,  Oscars experimenting with Injectors on his Avocado trees has inspired me to compile the information I have on this so far.   

 I still have many questions.  but this looks promising,  I would almost compare it to hydroponics for trees. but of course its not the same as we are not feeding the roots, but the other benefits are there. like controlling the nutrient solution. 

Although I do not see this as very practical for a back yard grower, I believe it may be useful in some cases.

I welcome others to add experiences or information on this topic.

Here is the video by Carlos, who is looking ahead and doing great work. in regards to finding ways to get around the Laural Wilt problem that  the Avocado growers are facing.

http://youtu.be/t-27vTGtJeo


Original Technique for Liquid Injection in Tree Trunks
http://avocadosource.com/temp/OLD%20WAC%20II/WAC2_p199.htm

Mango and Grape Injection experiment in Egypt
http://www.google.com.do/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsciencebooks.info%2FJournalsSup%2Fimages%2F0906%2FFVCSB_3(1)22-27o.pdf&ei=YsbGU6OLCbDLsQTqg4LIDQ&usg=AFQjCNF2pzMrkHuUVZ-pU_SWN0asaj6LzQ&sig2=6A35U8uxrlc-t5PiehyfFw

[bangkok]

I have seen the injections in avocadotree's before but that was against rootrot.

To me this sounds very scary, like Lance Armstrong injecting anabolic stuff to win the race. I would never do it to my tree's though, only in case the avocado really needs it to survive.

[Tropicdude]

I have seen the injections in avocadotree's before but that was against rootrot.

To me this sounds very scary, like Lance Armstrong injecting anabolic stuff to win the race. I would never do it to my tree's though, only in case the avocado really needs it to survive.

Its not anabolic, it would be more like feeding a patient that is in coma. a plant can take up nutrients through its roots, and leaves, injection is just another way. this may allow people to grow trees in places with high sodium soils for example,  or look at the drought situation in California and some other countries injection could make better use of limited resources,  in the link you can see these mango trees growing in sand, which Egypt seems to have plenty of, so I can understand their interest in this.

I have 1 potted tree that I am thinking of trying this on,  the tree has been struggling for years,  It looks like it has various nutrient deficiencies, even though I feed it the same as my other trees, I suspect some kind of root problem,   my plan is to do the IV thing, and plant two seedlings, and do an approach graft,  also I will take a healthy scion and just start a new tree, but the tree is not producing any new healthy growth.   The IV thing wont be permanent in this experiment, only enough time to get the tree healthy again.

[CTMIAMI]

Let me tell you all, if you want your avocado trees to survive you need to get well verse on the subject. Trees are dying in Florida from Laurel Wilt. I have seen groves devastated by the wilt, in groves that the owners are uninterested and do not want to spend any money.   I'm begining to see  dead  trees in the metropilitan area in backyards. People dont know what hit them. One bite of the little f----er and the tree is dead.
I took these picture last month in Eureka Drive in the heart of Miami. In a once flourishing grove DEADLY. Once you have an infection if you have avocado trees close to each other the rest will die from root transmission.  Eventualy unless something happen like with the whitefly this will be spread  very wide.

[durianwriter]

This is a really fascinating idea, like an IV drip for trees, but could it really work? I mean, there are so many nutrients that a tree needs that we don't even know about, many of them created by bacteria in the soil. If you're not watering or fertilizing the soil, how will that effect the balance of microorganisms in the soil? Also, what incentive cause the tree to grow hardy roots so that it doesn't tip over in wind? Just some thoughts. Great thing to talk about though!

[CTMIAMI]

The idea of tree infusion is not to provide all the nutrients a tree needs. It is actually expensive and time consuming.  It is just to supplement any special need the tree may have specially in nutrients that are not available due to soil conditions or pesticides and fungicides to target specific deceases and insects. Just like in the case of Laurel Wilt, becomes a do or die in certain cases.

[ofdsurfer]

Carlos,
What do you use to combat laurel wilt?  Is it a preventative measure or a cure?
Thanks
Mike

[durianwriter]

Are any industries using this technique large scale?

[CTMIAMI]

There are several protocols all changing as we learn more on the disease.
Basically what is now available is only one product Tilt made by Syngenta is the only product with a special label for avocados. You have to download this label from Syngenta and have it with you during application. Is is a preventable. Once the tree is infected is dead.  I had one tree hit by one bite. One single hole. I injected everything and could not save it. I know others have tried to cure but no success.

When you infuse the fungicide in the tree it prevents the fungus to take hold. Is expected to last 18 months more or less.   The protocol is that once you have an infected tree you need to remove it, roots and all. If not, if there are tree around they can get the disease via root graft. Then you have to inject  all the trees 50-60 ft around the contaminated tree that you removed.

Yes there are teams injecting trees 6 days a week in Homestead.

[cos]

These are great ideas .  Thanks for starting this topic that perhaps is the path into the future.

[Tropicdude]

These are great ideas .  Thanks for starting this topic that perhaps is the path into the future.

Injection technique can be used for both for saving trees from a pest like Carlos is doing, and I believe will allow people to grow certain plants in places they could not before.

But an idea occurred to me,  what about fruit trees that are notoriously infamous for having a slow root system like the Mangosteen?  a few weeks ago,  I transplanted a potted mangosteen,  when I did that, the fragile tap root broke,  I put the plant so it would not et any direct sunlight, and been giving it extra water, but the leaves are starting to lose some of its green.   this tree may be the perfect candidate to try the injection.  problem is I have absolutely no experience in this, the "trunk" is not that thick,  maybe 20mm. then there is the question of the right nutrients to use.  as far as I know, nobody has tried this on mangosteen.

In theory, it should work,  think about the implications, Mangosteen does not grow well in Florida, part of the reason is its soils.  but what if we can eliminate that problem with injection?  mangosteen has a extremely long juvenile period, mainly because of its poor root system.   this is why consistent foliar spraying is so effective because you are giving the plant the nutrients it needs to grow directly, bypassing the roots.  but why not go one further and tap right into the vascular system.

And one more thing that has not been studied, at least not printed anywhere I can find.  is what about manipulating hormones though the IV?  In subtropical latitudes, foliar  application of KNO3 to initiate flowering is not very effective.  but what if we could just inject the hormone responsible to trigger flowering? for commercial plantations of fruit trees, this would be very desirable.   I do not see these systems anymore complicated than drip irrigation being used today,  instead of drippers though we have little plastic injectors.

There seems to be many ways of using this technique.  take a look at this system used on oil palms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unOG-PvgTA

Although I do not like what Oil Palm industry is doing to the forests around the world.  that is a separate subject, my interest here is in how they can basically put a "inlet" in a tree, and just spray or pour fertilizer right into the tree.  I can see where this way of applying fertilizer would be very effective in tall trees that would be very impractical to foliar feed,  and traditional soil applications would be very wasteful.   

Which brings me to another conclusion, every tree will need a different system,  mango has been tested with permanent injection for both water and nutrients, Carlos is injecting fungicide, which I believe is temporary injection.  Some Oil palm plantations are putting injectors that are used periodically for fertilizer only.   
so there are many applications and uses for this system.

There are many questions I have.

What are the long term effects on the tree?
As the tree gets bigger, will the injector holes grow over? or seal up?


 

[CTMIAMI]

I'm suspect of the video on the palm injection. It is from 2009 and apparently the business model fail. No information where to buy, no web page etc.  In my experience a tree cavity, hole, injection point is only active for hours the tree starts to heal itself and in a day or so the would is healed and no longer taking fluids. Specially their system with so many injections.
I think tree injections if for very special events when nothing else works. Or if the injection last over a year so you dont have keep drilling the tree without a chance to heal.
I find that if I plug my holes with wood pegs in about 6 month you don't ever know where the tree was injected.
 

[Tropicdude]

I'm suspect of the video on the palm injection. It is from 2009 and apparently the business model fail. No information where to buy, no web page etc.  In my experience a tree cavity, hole, injection point is only active for hours the tree starts to heal itself and in a day or so the would is healed and no longer taking fluids. Specially their system with so many injections.
I think tree injections if for very special events when nothing else works. Or if the injection last over a year so you dont have keep drilling the tree without a chance to heal.
I find that if I plug my holes with wood pegs in about 6 month you don't ever know where the tree was injected.
 

Company still in business, here is link to product used.  I did not post it previously because I do not want look like I am promoting some particular brand or company.
personally this method of having to pour in fertilizer periodically does not look attractive to me,  I posted this information just to demonstrate one of the many ways
injection is being used.

http://novelgro.com/en/product-detail/palm_oil_trunk_injection

The system above may work for palms, but I would not do this to a regular tree. typically injectors only go in as deep enough to reach the Xylem and Phloam .  that palm injector skewers that tree way deep.

Those palm plantations can stretch for miles, can you imagine drilling and hammering those tubes into 100,000 trees?  an owner may save money in the long run, but that is a lot of up front money and work.   and still the question remains what would the long term effect be on those palms? 5-10 years? .

[cos]

Palms are different from other trees in that they do not have  Xylem and Phloam but rather vascular bundles to conduct nutrients. It seems that drilling & cutting thru many bundles would help in delivering nutrients?

[Tropicdude]

Palms are different from other trees in that they do not have  Xylem and Phloam but rather vascular bundles to conduct nutrients. It seems that drilling & cutting thru many bundles would help in delivering nutrients?

Yeah I guess palms are different on how they transport nutrients and water.

[stuartdaly88]

Wow this is interesting!!
I was totally surprised how the avocado really took in all that water without a problem.
I wonder how usable ferts are when direct into the tree my laymans mind assumes if its in its in, it has to be excreted somehow or used
Maybe the roots would even go deeper if the soil was able to be alittle dried out between waterings without dehydrating or stressing the tree.
I wonder if you need the pressure or if you could hang an actual drip type bag in the tree with hydroponic type solution like an IV.
Or even in arid areas less wasted evaporated soil water similar to having the pipe that takes water direct to roots but even more direct. I can imagine a large barrels elevated next to each tree.
Could you possibly grow bigger trees in smaller pots without the need for as much rootmass?
Systemic pesticides with no soil contamination. Less wasted fertilizer or expensive PGRs. Being able to heal a badly rootrotted tree.

This has some real potential and applications could possibly be endless. I hope more people will experiment with this!
I really think a melding of nature and technology is what will be needed in the future.
Anyone know where to buy plugs like in the video or normal items that can be substituted?

[CTMIAMI]

I have actually used IV bags to inject fungicides and fertilizers in avocado trees it does it well. It takes longer. I have to do a video on that one day. All Depends on the ability of the tree to take in fluids. I have done IV bag injections in 1/2 hour other days it takes 8 hours. I'm told you can predict the tree's ability to take fluids using a manometer and drilling a small hole.

[stuartdaly88]

Hmm interesting, if you controlled the flow similar to a real drip then you could have it in tree permanently adding fert solution or fungicides as necessary. I wish there wernt so many variables in adult trees as a side by side test would be good.
Well it definitely seems viable for Avos!
Did you have any avo trees that you didn't fertilise via iv to compare? Did this method produce as well as in ground fed or were there any adverse effects from this?

[raymondetc]

The injection point, does it has to be changed regularly, as the tree shall heal back and block the injection .

[CTMIAMI]

I have dome many injections and my feeling is that after 24 hours the tree begins to heal. I do not think this can be an on going process it is use to treat for specific issues and stop. 

[Tropicdude]

I have dome many injections and my feeling is that after 24 hours the tree begins to heal. I do not think this can be an on going process it is use to treat for specific issues and stop.

I think its because of the different goals,    in the permanent fertilizer/irrigation setup. there is always a solution present,  the tree will suck up what it needs,  because the hole is not exposed to air, this probably prevents the area from healing.   I think it would be important to make sure the injection nozzle goes past the out and inner bark, as those areas should not be exposed to liquid, I suspect they would rot.    caveat   this is just just speculation on my part taking into consideration  the information that was provided in the trials on mango and grape in the documents I provided above.   I have not seen anything on permanent Avocado injection.

I know that so called "tree doctors" are called to remedy nutrient deficiencies and disease problems  in city landscaping trees and back yard growers.  those temporary fertilizer programs have been criticized by many because it does not solve the underlying problem of why those trees got that way in the first place.
So we are talking about different goals and solutions.  1) Injecting fungicide or pesticide temporary injection.  2) Emergency nutrient Injection, also temporary, and finally 3) permanent injection system, to supply nutrients and sometimes even water to the trees.   this latter one seems to have little information, so there is room for a lot of discovery here.  I feel there is a lot of potential.

[CTMIAMI]

William very simple hang an IV bag on a tree, make a hole plug an injector it permanently and keep  the bag with fluid to see how long is the hole staying receptive.

[Tropicdude]

William very simple hang an IV bag on a tree, make a hole plug an injector it permanently and keep  the bag with fluid to see how long is the hole staying receptive.

I plan on doing something like that,  I do not have access to drip irrigation supplies, but I am going to order some 1/4 couplings,  and modify them into injectors,  look at this coupling 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orbit-25pk-1-4-Drip-Fitting-Tube-Coupling-for-Micro-Irrigation-Tubing-67402-/251577302961?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a932cffb1

It should be simple to file down one side to shape it the right way,  also cut in some slots so that the solution can flow out from the sides.  since its only for 1 tree I will only need to do 1 or 2.

In the pdf document,  they melted plastic, I assume, like those craft project hot plastic guns, which is what I will use to seal it in place,   the document says that the heat functions to also sterilize the area. 

I still have no idea of correct nutrient mix,  or Ph.  still looking into that.   I know that it will need to be sterile and completely dissolved.

[CTMIAMI]

William I'm going to do it as soon as I have a chance. I will place an IV bag and place an injector and put 250 ml of distilled water a day  or twice a day to see it takes it on an on going basis and for how long. I will also regulate the inflow to 10 drop a minute or so to keep the entry point wet all the time.

[stuartdaly88]

I will be following this thread with great interest!
Can't wait to see how this goes