Author Topic: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?  (Read 6986 times)

Saltcayman

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A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« on: July 26, 2017, 06:27:20 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/dining/ben-and-jerrys-ice-cream-herbicide-glyphosate.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share NYTimes: Traces of Controversial Herbicide Are Found in Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream

A growing number of foods commonly found in kitchens across America have tested positive for glyphosate, the herbicide that is the main ingredient in the popular consumer pesticide Roundup, which is widely used in agriculture. But few brands on that list are as startling as the latest: Ben & Jerry’s, the Vermont ice cream company known for its family-friendly image and environmental advocacy.


Ethan

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 07:28:06 AM »
Ooooooh, a new Ben & Jerry's flavor.......

simon_grow

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 08:15:21 AM »
That sucks, there should be a big lawsuit to sue the company to get them to remove all traces from the environment.

Simon

Mark in Texas

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 08:21:05 AM »
That sucks, there should be a big lawsuit to sue the company to get them to remove all traces from the environment.

Simon

But people will buy that crap from those hacks, just like they still buy the hokey marketed "earthy" Blue Balls Ice cream, a firm who was filmed by employees reflecting unsanitary conditions like rain and debris dripping off holy roofs into the vats, grease and oil dripping into the vats, people dieing from their listeria tainted ice cream.

There were plenty of lawsuits against "Blue Balls".

spaugh

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 11:02:50 AM »
Don't know how true this is.  Would love for someone to tell if its true or false.  But I read a lot of the wheat farmers actually spray it on their field to kill it off and help dry it out before harvesting.  Apparently it speeds up and makes harvesting much easier. 

Also read GMO corn fields that are unaffected by glyphosate can be doused in the stuff to kill the weeds in the field and not affect the corn.

Then this stuff ends up in your cereal box or whatever food you buy with corn/wheat.

True story or fake news?
Brad Spaugh

shaneatwell

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 11:35:38 AM »
Has anyone died or gotten sick?

I have yet to see credible evidence that glyphosate harms people.
Shane

shot

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 12:21:56 PM »
You chattel pipe down and  take your dose

Mark in Texas

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2017, 12:56:41 PM »
Then this stuff ends up in your cereal box or whatever food you buy with corn/wheat.

And you can verify that with bonafide research from a non-partisan lab, or just parroting some organic internet site that's nothing more than a money grab.  I eat non organic by choice and me and my friends are well and healthy.

Not trying to be confrontational amigo, but most if not all of the emotionally driven rumors based on ideology are just that.  Go to "Dr." Mercola's site.  You first get all this drivel and then an option to get more info by clicking on a link that for a high price includes his video, brochure, and other sucker bet tripe.


Mark in Texas

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2017, 01:00:08 PM »
Has anyone died or gotten sick?

I have yet to see credible evidence that glyphosate harms people.

It doesn't.  I've been using it for decades as have many of my friends both homeward bound and farm types.  It's a phosphate.  There have been plenty of scientific based studies to show how benign it is but you'll never convince organic religious zealots otherwise.

Having said that it's all about dose and frequency.  Anything taken in large amounts is harmful whether it be sugar, salt or sex.  ;D

spaugh

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2017, 01:54:01 PM »
Then this stuff ends up in your cereal box or whatever food you buy with corn/wheat.

And you can verify that with bonafide research from a non-partisan lab, or just parroting some organic internet site that's nothing more than a money grab.  I eat non organic by choice and me and my friends are well and healthy.

Not trying to be confrontational amigo, but most if not all of the emotionally driven rumors based on ideology are just that.  Go to "Dr." Mercola's site.  You first get all this drivel and then an option to get more info by clicking on a link that for a high price includes his video, brochure, and other sucker bet tripe.

Well I did preface and postface my post with not sure how true it is.  And true story or fake news? 

I actually probably use more glyphosate than most people on this blog. I go through 2 or 3 gallons of 41% a year.  So I don't have any issues with using it to take care of weeds.  I don't spray it anywhere near my food crops though.  It seems strange that people would defend putting it in or on food to me.

What I would like to see is someone who thinks its completely safe put a few drops in a glass of water and drink it.
Brad Spaugh

palmcity

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2017, 01:59:11 PM »
Having said that it's all about dose and frequency.  Anything taken in large amounts is harmful whether it be sugar, salt or sex.  ;D
   
I think the mentioned Whipped Cream got me going... So For Amusement Only:::
Back in the DAY:::Be careful boys... too much of that wanking is gonna make ya go blind as a bat....

Now Today:::

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2776190/Viagra-cause-blindness-Ingredient-drug-permanently-affect-sight-doctors-warn.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8004291/ns/health-mens_health/t/blindness-noted-men-using-impotence-drugs/#.WXjU84jyvyQ
"So he urged that ophthalmologists ask NAION patients whether they use impotence drugs, and report any additional cases. Also, Viagra users who suffer NAION in one eye should be cautioned that continued use might raise the risk of vision loss in the other eye, Pomeranz wrote.
The loss of vision is permanent."


DurianLover

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 07:45:39 PM »
There is has not been good scientific study in US focusing on negative sides of glyphosate because of certain unwritten laws in academic circles, but there has been quite a bit of work done in Germany. They also developed good accurate test for humans and every American tested in Germany show highly elevated levels of glyphosate and aluminium compared to Europeans. More on aluminium"s role here later.
German studies find glyphosate to be destructing to intestinal lining and and flora. So called "leaky gut syndrome" is a massive ongoing epidemic in US.  Glyphosate chelates good minerals from the body such as magnesium, calcium, zinc, etc. Similarly GMO plants engineered to withstand glyphosate have significantly lower good mineral content compared to counterparts.  So, here comes American super sized portions, because without mineral rich food, people still feel hungry despite massive calories.
Glyphosate binds to aluminium and drives into deep into body depositing aluminum in the brain during the process. It's an open secret that Alzheimer's and dementia has a lot to do with aluminium and other heavy metals deposits in the brain. Both diseases on a dramatic rise in US. Glyphosate has synergistic effect with aluminium blocking enzyme in a pineal gland responsible for melatonin production. 40 million American have sleep disorders. I could go on but you get the point.

As far as working with glyphosate without ill effects we have to remember one thing here. The body's ability to process and remove toxic substances can vary over hundred fold from person to person. While one person is doing absolutely in unfriendly environment, another one could become bed ridden in similar circumstances.

Future

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 08:55:20 PM »
Well said DL.  In Bermuda we have an unusually high deformed frog population. Too many or too few legs, eyes.  One theory is spraying abundance with more golf courses per square mile than any country on earth, roadside spraying and a relatively high water table.  It was temporarily banned by the government and now is back on the market in premixed form.  No sane person would argue it improves health.

buddyguygreen

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2017, 09:18:10 PM »
Honestly they should just let it be, if people want to bathe in the stuff and eat it than they will deal with the effects. There are far worse chemicals that we are all exposed to everyday, to just focus on one that was brought to attention by mainstream news isn't logical. As for harming the environment....Does it really matter at this point http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/our-dying-planet.html  http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/animal-deaths-birds-fish-end-times.html We are all about to lose our comfort and we deserve it.

http://youtu.be/iMJPZ-mu-Ts
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 09:26:59 PM by buddyguygreen »

Caesar

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 10:35:04 PM »
Honestly they should just let it be, if people want to bathe in the stuff and eat it than they will deal with the effects. There are far worse chemicals that we are all exposed to everyday, to just focus on one that was brought to attention by mainstream news isn't logical. As for harming the environment....Does it really matter at this point http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/our-dying-planet.html  http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/animal-deaths-birds-fish-end-times.html We are all about to lose our comfort and we deserve it.

Not everyone believes in the end times (at least, in the manner described by faith). For the sake of those that don't, suppose they don't come? Then we have a very strong responsibility to take care of our world, for the sake of all life present. For the sake of those that do believe, suppose they do come? Well, we know neither when they would start nor for how long they'd drag on for. Even if we were smack in the middle (or even the final stretch), there is cause to care and act for our world and its inhabitants (human or otherwise); the end would come much smoother and less painfully if we did.

I just hope this thread doesn't devolve into an ideological pissing contest from any facet. Industrial or organic, atheist or believer, we're all brothers in fruit. Let's keep it civil.  ;D

Back to the topic...

I agree with letting people do as they please regarding their own pesticide intake, but not the food supply. The people should have a say in what they eat, and the options are unfairly restricted when the majority of what's readily available is one choice, and what is available of the opposing choice has high prices. Besides, organic eaters may or may not have a problem with pesticides, but traditional eaters wouldn't care which of the two was offered. Likewise, pesticides being harmful may be debatable, but their lack of positive effects on the body when consumed (even if they're not overtly damaging) is undeniable. Traditional eaters would eat either one without fuss, and anyone would be unhurt by organics. Meanwhile, organic eaters would rather not eat one (the traditional crops), and anyone eating traditional crops may or may not be hurt by pesticides in the short or long run. Given this, I consider organic to be the clear winner, but that's my opinion.

As to my feelings on the pesticide per se? Well, short of some organic pesticides, glyphosate has been considered one of the safest and least damaging on the market (which says something about how toxic the others are, given that glyphosate is safer despite being proven to still be toxic in studies). Having said that, I would rather avoid pesticides whenever possible, especially if there are other practical (if inconvenient) alternatives. For establishment clearing of the nastiest environmental weeds (or spot-killing them in the longer term), I don't think it's that bad (though I'd still avoid it if I could). For continued use in quantity over the long term for monoculture maintenance... I'd have to say no, I don't like the idea in the slightest. That said, I wouldn't hold it against you if you did.

simon_grow

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 02:53:18 AM »
Honestly they should just let it be, if people want to bathe in the stuff and eat it than they will deal with the effects. There are far worse chemicals that we are all exposed to everyday, to just focus on one that was brought to attention by mainstream news isn't logical. As for harming the environment....Does it really matter at this point http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/our-dying-planet.html  http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/animal-deaths-birds-fish-end-times.html We are all about to lose our comfort and we deserve it.

Caesar, thanks for that. That is awesome and I couldn't have put it any better. We're all family on this great Earth, let's take care of her like she is our Mom! She's given us everything we have, she's fed us and we wouldn't be here without her. Let's treat her with some respect and dignity and in turn she will take care of us.

Simon

Not everyone believes in the end times (at least, in the manner described by faith). For the sake of those that don't, suppose they don't come? Then we have a very strong responsibility to take care of our world, for the sake of all life present. For the sake of those that do believe, suppose they do come? Well, we know neither when they would start nor for how long they'd drag on for. Even if we were smack in the middle (or even the final stretch), there is cause to care and act for our world and its inhabitants (human or otherwise); the end would come much smoother and less painfully if we did.

I just hope this thread doesn't devolve into an ideological pissing contest from any facet. Industrial or organic, atheist or believer, we're all brothers in fruit. Let's keep it civil.  ;D

Back to the topic...

I agree with letting people do as they please regarding their own pesticide intake, but not the food supply. The people should have a say in what they eat, and the options are unfairly restricted when the majority of what's readily available is one choice, and what is available of the opposing choice has high prices. Besides, organic eaters may or may not have a problem with pesticides, but traditional eaters wouldn't care which of the two was offered. Likewise, pesticides being harmful may be debatable, but their lack of positive effects on the body when consumed (even if they're not overtly damaging) is undeniable. Traditional eaters would eat either one without fuss, and anyone would be unhurt by organics. Meanwhile, organic eaters would rather not eat one (the traditional crops), and anyone eating traditional crops may or may not be hurt by pesticides in the short or long run. Given this, I consider organic to be the clear winner, but that's my opinion.

As to my feelings on the pesticide per se? Well, short of some organic pesticides, glyphosate has been considered one of the safest and least damaging on the market (which says something about how toxic the others are, given that glyphosate is safer despite being proven to still be toxic in studies). Having said that, I would rather avoid pesticides whenever possible, especially if there are other practical (if inconvenient) alternatives. For establishment clearing of the nastiest environmental weeds (or spot-killing them in the longer term), I don't think it's that bad (though I'd still avoid it if I could). For continued use in quantity over the long term for monoculture maintenance... I'd have to say no, I don't like the idea in the slightest. That said, I wouldn't hold it against you if you did.

stuartdaly88

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2017, 03:20:27 AM »
Havnt there been ecoli deaths linked to organic farming though?

Traditional eaters may not mind eating organic(besides the possible ecoli of course) but we definitly would mind the higher prices that a blanket ban on certain methods would bring. So it may bring the price of organic produce down but the average price would probably rise!

Im also not completly convinced that purely organic methods can feed the growing population. Even in my own country many people are starving and want food no matter what the methods?
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
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pineislander

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 07:56:20 AM »
I did some checking and found that organic consumers org has been campaigning after Ben and Jerry's for twenty years under various pretenses social justice, etc. A local Vermont news source has some more details.

 https://vtdigger.org/2017/07/26/ben-jerrys-hint-herbicide-sparks-big-headache/

This particular report isn't peer reviewed, clearly from a partisan group.

shot

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 08:46:02 AM »
Their is corruption throughtout  all levels of goverment and the eco nuts but to believe in self corporate governance is just ignorant after all we have the best politicians money can buy .I  know of universities personal telling me that studies are greatly influenced by $$$$.Global corps  are no longer USA corps.,I wouldn't even buy their stock.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 12:11:07 PM by shot »

Mark in Texas

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 09:23:37 AM »
What I would like to see is someone who thinks its completely safe put a few drops in a glass of water and drink it.

Hi Spaugh.  Have seen it many years ago with a sales rep drinking some as part of the sales pitch.  Seriously!  Was working for a City Park and Rec. dept. when he demoed it.

Where it can be nasty is using it on/in water to control pests such as hyacinth.

Glyphosate works via the amino acid process, shuts the plant material down......... so labs have designed GMO's that are resistant to that hit.  Doesn't have anything to do with human health. 

Caesar

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 12:50:21 PM »
Caesar, thanks for that. That is awesome and I couldn't have put it any better. We're all family on this great Earth, let's take care of her like she is our Mom! She's given us everything we have, she's fed us and we wouldn't be here without her. Let's treat her with some respect and dignity and in turn she will take care of us.

Simon

Thanks Simon. No Earth, no us, so we gotta take care of it for as long as we have it.


Havnt there been ecoli deaths linked to organic farming though?

Traditional eaters may not mind eating organic(besides the possible ecoli of course) but we definitly would mind the higher prices that a blanket ban on certain methods would bring. So it may bring the price of organic produce down but the average price would probably rise!

Im also not completly convinced that purely organic methods can feed the growing population. Even in my own country many people are starving and want food no matter what the methods?

E. coli is an enteric bacteria. I would imagine that the contaminated farms were dealing with a lot of manure. Even composted manure might not be fully safe, as the pile doesn't always generate enough heat to kill off the harmful bacteria. Heat-treated manure would be a safe alternative, if it were a viable option. Also, there's "green manures", fertilizer trees and other Chop 'n' Drop systems.

I don't know much about market economics, so you got me there. What I can say is that organic prices are high currently because of competition with cheap traditional product, the cost of Organic Registration, and greater efforts for equal or lesser yields. Why? Most commercial organic farms aren't as organic as they could be. The term was taken and turned into a buzzword, systematized with only a few criteria: no harsh chemicals from a given list. So, as long as you avoid those chemicals you can be labeled organic. This means quite a few people have continued growing with otherwise industrial methods, attaining the Organic registration by merely changing or eliminating chemicals. The yields are lesser because most industrial techniques (like monocultures) don't play well with organic; they're just as susceptible to pests, but now that they don't use chemicals they have no strong way to deal with them. To be effectively organic, functional and productive, you gotta find the right combination of techniques to maximize production while minimizing loss and environmental impact. Cover crops help suppress weeds and retain soil fertility. Chop 'n' Drop builds soil quality. Polycultures reduce the impact of pests with techniques like trap crops, predatory insect attractors and aromatic insect repellents (among others), minimizing the need for whatever pesticide (organic?) you do use. Plus, you hedge your bets with extra crops (in case one should fail). The yield per crop is diminished in some polycultures, but the total land yield is increased; that sounds profitable to me. Build a strong system, and you'll get good results. Weakly organic systems (like those that give up harsh chemicals without compensating with cultural techniques) are gonna have greater losses, and prices will be higher for their troubles.

I believe that properly implemented organic farming is capable of matching (if not outright exceeding) the productive capacity of industrial farming. If the people are starving, you feed them however you must. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of transitioning to organic after an industrial start. You go with what works, but the benefit of organic techniques (I guess I'm talking more permaculture now, which I believe is what organic should be) are that they're designed to work in a broad range of circumstances, from the tropics to the cooler regions, forest, desert and everything in between. And it's productive when done right. Does it take longer to establish? Perhaps. Then start industrial and make the transition after the establishment period is over.

Also, I never suggested a ban. Simply having more organic farmers and less industrial farmers might have a positive impact.

As a final point, I can't offer a perfect system. There's no such thing. Every system you could think of has drawbacks. The question is whether the drawbacks of the proposed solution are equal or greater in impact or scope than the system it seeks to supplant. If not, then the solution is worth pursuing, defects and all. I believe that the drawbacks of organic agriculture are lesser than the ones from industrial agriculture (which is itself unsustainable). If properly implemented and managed, organic agriculture can meet the needs of any community just as well as industrial agriculture, with far less environmental impact.


What I would like to see is someone who thinks its completely safe put a few drops in a glass of water and drink it.

Hi Spaugh.  Have seen it many years ago with a sales rep drinking some as part of the sales pitch.  Seriously!  Was working for a City Park and Rec. dept. when he demoed it.

Where it can be nasty is using it on/in water to control pests such as hyacinth.

Glyphosate works via the amino acid process, shuts the plant material down......... so labs have designed GMO's that are resistant to that hit.  Doesn't have anything to do with human health. 


That's the mechanism of how it operates on plant cells. It's biochemical effects on animal cells might operate via different mechanisms.

Saltcayman

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2017, 06:32:30 AM »
Documents released Tuesday in a lawsuit against Monsanto raised new questions about the company’s efforts to influence the news media and scientific research and revealed internal debate over the safety of its highest-profile product, the weed killer Roundup.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/business/monsantos-sway-over-research-is-seen-in-disclosed-emails.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share NYTimes: Monsanto’s Sway Over Research Is Seen in Disclosed Emails

Waiting

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2017, 06:35:56 PM »
I had a professor, a statistician, who was a hired gun for the tobacco industry. When there was a big cancer-related lawsuit he would be flown in first class, put up in first class accommodations, and well paid, to show, statistically, that smoking does not cause cancer.

It seems to me that because we are all different some people are more susceptible/sensitive to the deleterious effects of things than others, canaries in the coal mine, if you will. I had bladder cancer with no obvious cause. In the past I have been a bit careless when spraying Roundup, i.e., not wearing a mask. I'm more cautious now.

FruitFreak

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2017, 07:26:33 PM »
[Anything taken in large amounts is harmful whether it be sugar, salt or sex;D

Now now Mark, let's not get too carried away
- Marley

SeaWalnut

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Re: A little whipped cream on your roundup ?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2020, 07:32:12 PM »
My lands never seen glyphosate on them but i bought 200 ml for the first time to use carefully around 150 seedlings trees that have mulch at the base but weeds grew through the mulch .
For that manny trees it would be verry hard and time consuming to clear the weeds around them manually so il use glyphosate but il use it only for 2 years until the trees become established and grow taller than the weeds around them can grow.
When i will spray glyphosate i will cut a sewage pipe in half and use the pipe as a shield to protect the seedlings from getting sprayed.