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Messages - incubator01

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1
Citrus General Discussion / Re: pruning or staking very long branches
« on: August 29, 2022, 05:56:02 PM »
Quote from: Millet on August 29, 2022, 05:15:24 PM
You can prune the branch, it is not a problem.  As fruit grows on new growth, it might not fruit for a year.

Well it's too young to fruit, but I should have looked at it before posting this, because of the change in the sun's position the branch curled up and a little back, it's still very green and pliable so I might leave it alone for now, if it grows up in an umbrella shape it's fine by me, otherwise I'll definitely prune it a bit like youe said, thanks :)

2
Citrus General Discussion / pruning or staking very long branches
« on: August 29, 2022, 11:50:36 AM »
So some of my citrus in full ground (greenhouse) have grown a nice umbrella shaped branch structure, which is apparently ideal, but the branches (some of them) are only 20° upwards, so quite horizontal. But they're also very long.
This particular branch just had a new growth flush and autumn is coming so I'm not going to prune it off now, but in general I would like to encourage it to grow this branch a bit more upward.

Either pruning off part of it can help or staking, but since staking is not a good idea (it can damage the branch if done incorrectly or prevent the branch from getting strong enough)

So I'm looking for opinions, tips, best practices.

Reasons why that branch is too long is it is growing outside its allowed borders and penetrating my middle walkway.

3
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:46:47 PM »
Quote from: 1rainman on August 04, 2022, 05:03:17 AM
There is a lot of variation in what citrus can handle the cold. Dwarf Meyer lemon is perfect for the north. Bring inside when temps go below freezing otherwise it does great. I had lemons in Ohio. It's small enough to grow in a large container and move inside in the winter. I used grow lights in winter.

Some citrus need hot temperature though. Lemons do not like cold but Meyer lemon is only 3/4 lemon. Nobody knows exactly but thought to be 1/8 grapefruit which is very cold hearty 1/8 tangerine and 3/4 lemon. I can eat these lemons they are only slightly sour due to being part orange or whatever. By far the best citrus for the north. I had a tangerine that did well but got too big. Grapefruit is probably the easiest citrus to grow that is good to eat in my opinion or a tangelo half grapefruit half tangerine. Or the Meyer lemon.

All of this depends on the rootstock.
Anything grafted on macrophylla or volkarmerian will die here, my pursha lemon on macrophylla recovered transplant shock but is now struggling to grow, despite well draining soil and dry conditions, it's pretty clear it wont survive another winter here.

I will no longer buy anything on those rootstocks.
Same with carrizo, too sensitive

Seedlings can get a very diluted version of food once they're a year old, been doing this now with great success in combination with a grow light.
They grow like mad.

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 08, 2022, 02:11:50 AM »
Quote from: Millet on July 07, 2022, 06:46:04 PM
Have you ever pulled the tree from the container and examined the roots?
Not since last year when I flushed out al the clay soil from tintori.
I'm not keen on removing it from it's soil when he's not doing well. I took a cutting of an excess branch so I'll see how that goes. Meanwhile i don't water too much.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 07, 2022, 03:55:11 PM »
Here are some more angled pictures and a close up of the branches




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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 07, 2022, 01:57:27 PM »
Quote from: Millet on July 07, 2022, 12:12:02 PM
Covering the entire root ball with the medium, has nothing to do with the purchased water table.  Looking at the picture again, it certainly looks like the container is not completely filled.
No, it is not, about 20% is empty. This was done to prevent backlog water at the bottom to stay there too long, yet it helped very little.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 07, 2022, 02:37:44 AM »
Quote from: Millet on July 06, 2022, 06:56:16 PM
Why is the container only 1/2 full of medium?  The perched water table must occupy most all of the tree's root zone area, educing much of the root's oxygen.

Container is definitely full enough, the terracotta pot is the one carrying the poncirus.
It's well filled and the entire root ball is amply covered in medium...

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 06, 2022, 06:36:58 PM »
Quote from: Ilya11 on July 06, 2022, 03:30:04 PM
Incubator01,
What we lack in order to help you are the photos of this mysterious poncirus that does not want to grow.


There you go.

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 06, 2022, 05:23:09 AM »
I could but then I would lose even more space in my greenhouse. Outside the greenhouse is a no go because it rains way too much here, like, flooding rains sometimes that the ground is soaking wet for weeks.
I kept this one in a container in the 50% peat, 50% turface soil mix to keep it under control growth wise as I don't want a hedge or massive plant, its a bundle of 3 seedlings whose roots are permanently entangled into each other in one giant lump (trying to separate them will definitely kill them all)
so I have some more room left for a yuzu and shikuwasa but the rest is reserved for chili peppers, I'd rather not fill my entire greenhouse with citrus, especially not with one that can grow quite hedgy like this one ;)

@Millet any advice from your end? If planting in full soil is really the only solution I will but I'd rather keep it in a container. The lower part of the soil has finally dried out and I was now able to give it a small amount of water with root booster so watering conditions should stabilize. (as a sidenote, this soil mix performs so well my kaffir lime seedling has grown very hard this couple of months and needed transplanting :), drainage is excellent)

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: July 04, 2022, 08:55:00 AM »
Seems I was a bit hasty with my optimism.
those brown dots have not opened up yet (and no they're definitely not bugs ;) ) but the bottom of the soil in the container is still  moist, so the plant doesn't drink because he has no foliage, but won't grow foliage despite being in a lot of sun.
Some of the lower thinner branches are getting a color between green and yellow, the thick main branches remain green.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to wait with watering until mid august with a root booster because now the soil is not dry enough yet, and I'm also afraid he won't produce any foliage this year, that it will be for next spring.

I did prune him a little, like those branches or twigs that were in the way, crossing eachother or starting to get a bit yellow in order to push him to start growing but so far no luck.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: June 02, 2022, 02:07:21 PM »
well seemsmy trifoliate is finally doing something, I see brown dots in the branch armpits, i first thought they were armored aphids but when I removed one I found very young developing leaves, now removed of course, in it.
Guess they really are late compared to other species

12
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Where to buy citrus online (EUROPE)
« on: May 22, 2022, 06:21:29 AM »
Quote from: Mango Stein on May 22, 2022, 05:41:02 AM
Il y a quelques années, je suis tombé sur le site d'une organisation française qui vendait des greffons d'agrumes. Ils avaient des centaines de cultivars, dont Xie Shan. Maintenant, je ne peux pas le trouver. Quelqu'un peut-il aider?

I bought kaffir limes from https://www.planfor.fr/
Very nice plants, though they package it in a box filled with very environment unfriendly small styrofoam pieces.
But they have a good customer service, good plants.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 21, 2022, 06:05:40 AM »
Quote from: mikkel on May 20, 2022, 06:21:03 PM
Have you looked for snails? I have several types of citrus close to each other in my garden, some are attacked by snails, others are not. I just discovered it by chance, because they appear only in the evening. The slugs specifically attack the new growth, so it looks like the plant is still in dormancy.

The plant is in a container on my terrasse, no snails there, they never come anywhere near that place ;)
In my greenhouse however where my other citrus and pepper plants are, I did place anti snail stuff because they do appear there but this year they weer in small numbers.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 20, 2022, 10:01:09 AM »
Quote from: pagnr on May 20, 2022, 05:18:38 AM
I think you could use the word "rootstock" as "root system" in the case of a seedling trifoliata.
Normally I would resist pruning to fix root issues.
However in some case with weak plants that try to flush too many buds, pruning back can help a better flush ( on less buds ).
It has also been said that trifoliata thorns can also photosynthesise prior to leaf emergence, so don't trim them in some cases.

Don't worry, I was not planning on pruning anything, not even thorns. All I did last month was prune awy 2 small parts that were just inconvenient in the way, but even there i see no change so their theory did not work.
I'll just wait patiently.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 20, 2022, 03:18:08 AM »
In the beginning I also sent this question to oscar tintori but they gave me a rather weird reply:

Quote
if the vegetation does not restart, probably the reason is the rootstock. If the rootstock doesn't develop, maybe there is a stagnation of water or a fungus attack.
Our suggestion is bringinging the plants to restart growing with a pruning that togeter with the temperatures of this season and the fertilisation could let the vegetation growing again.

this trifoliate "is" the rootstock lol, they said it was from seeds themselves xD oh god, i fear language issues are at hand here

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 19, 2022, 02:31:25 PM »
ok, thanks for confirming this everyone, i fel much more relieved now:D
I was worried they'd damaged him too bad from pruning and he'd be in some sort of emergency recovery mode with a chance of dying but glad to hear it's not :)

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 19, 2022, 01:18:07 PM »
Ah ok, thanks for the reassuring :)
I just hope it won't miss out on our small summer.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / trifoliate orange not growing new foliage or anything
« on: May 19, 2022, 08:47:55 AM »
Hi,

last summer I bought a trifoliate orange from oscar tintori, 3 very nice developed plants grown into one huge root crown. The plant was full of small leaves but they sawed (I can still see the saw tooth ridges) some thicker branches to fit in the box.

In autumn it loses it's leaves, which is normal since it's deciduous, but now we're May and it's been getting plenty of sun, it got the usual slow release fertilizer mid march, the branches look green and lush, though some thorns and where it was sawed off have a yellow edge.
There are no signs of new buds, flowers of leaves, there are also no signs of damage or degradation, the branches do not turn brown or do not dry out, so I am confused as to why it isn't doing anything.
It was transplanted in a bigger pot with good soil mix last summer upon arrival, roots were washed out, the plant did not suiffer from this at all, I expected leaf drop but there was nothing, so I was happy to have a strong plant, but now I am wondering if he's adapting to our climate or needs a year to recover from the pruning or something else?

It stayed in my greenhouse in the winter, since it's cold hardy no additional protection was needed.
The only thing that still has leaves is a very young tiny shoot between those 3 plants but that one remains small. Since they're all grown from seed and not grafted , it's not a sucker so removal should not be required.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 10, 2022, 05:30:40 PM »
Quote from: Millet on May 10, 2022, 04:29:51 PM
Thousands of citrus trees in Florida are grafted upon Carrizo. The humidity in Florida reaches up to 100%.

but florida doesn't have cold temperatures in the winter / spring like Belgium. ther's the difference
Florida is citrus heaven, Belgium is not. As much as I wanted to grow other kinds here,  I just can't. Unless I invest in a complete isolated controlled environment.
So I have to stick with certain rootstocks and certain scions that are more resistant to our climate.
So far Yuzu & Shikuwasa are proving to be very successful here.
Poncirus by itself too, but mine doesn't seem to grow new leaves yet, probably because oscar tintori sawed off a lot of the thicker branches for grafting purposes.

20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 10, 2022, 01:09:28 PM »
Quote from: poncirsguy on May 10, 2022, 08:29:43 AM
Fukushu = Changshou  is correct.  My area is so humid I get  mold on my car body by early spring.  If your tree is grafted to phytophera resistant rootstock it will be no problem.

Well, like I said all the volkamerian or macrphylla rootstocks failed on me, my last kumquat died real fast in a few days, due to humidity. Same with many kaffir limes i had. Citrus on PT or citrumelo swingle perform much better here. They can take a serious beating before they die from moisture. And so far they're my favorite rootstocks :)
Granted I'm not as experienced as many of you, though I am learning and improving, but I quickly found out volkamerian and macrophylla were very sensitive compared to PT and citrumello swingle. Carrizo is also very sensitive, at least here, it also couldn't handle air humidity of 80% during early spring.

21
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 10, 2022, 07:27:04 AM »
Quote from: poncirsguy on May 07, 2022, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: incubator01 on May 07, 2022, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: poncirsguy on May 06, 2022, 07:15:45 PM
Meiwa  and nagami are very hard to grow.  Fukushu kumquats grow much better.

According to oscar tintori the Fukushu is unsuited to humid areas because susceptible to phytophera.
So also not good for my region.
I certainly hope not..  My healthiest trees are all Fukushu kumquats

Well I got it from here: https://www.oscartintori.it/en/prodotto/changshou-kumquat/
I know it sais Changshou but according to other sites this is another name for the Fukushu kumquat.
So if their info is inaccurate, shame on them :(

22
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 07, 2022, 06:24:30 PM »
Quote from: poncirsguy on May 06, 2022, 07:15:45 PM
Meiwa  and nagami are very hard to grow.  Fukushu kumquats grow much better.

According to oscar tintori the Fukushu is unsuited to humid areas because susceptible to phytophera.
So also not good for my region.

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meyer lemon as graft stock for other citrus
« on: May 06, 2022, 06:36:02 PM »
I had a meyer lemon grafted on carrizo rootstock but it died in februari, it was hibernating in a shelter so no frost damage, but as soon as I could put it outside again it didn't like the humid air and dropped all the leaves, plant died, end of story.

24
Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 06, 2022, 06:29:34 PM »
Quote from: pagnr on May 02, 2022, 02:20:00 AM
Is general seedling soil a commercial product. If so any more details. Is it something normally used for flats and punnets ??

https://www.gamma.be/nl/assortiment/agrofino-zaai-en-stekgrond-40-l/p/B240061

there.
It's just standard well draining seeding soil mixed with some perlite.
Almost every commercial brand has some sort of seeding soil blend, not all recipes are the same but that doesn't matter.
The seeds germinated well in that soil; it's my fault the seedlings died.

Also the adult kumquats died too, they just couldn't handle our diverse climate, temp change and humidity and both a big 5 y/o tree and a 2y/o tree died, all leaves dropped and branches turned brown.

No kumquats for belgium that's for sure. I stick to Yuzu and shikuwasa, they work really well here :)

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: May 01, 2022, 04:49:25 PM »
Quote from: pagnr on May 01, 2022, 07:50:16 AM
What is the pot media they are planted in. Looks like 100% fine sawdust, peat or coir ??
You say Citrus has problems in it, but Tomatoes and Capsicum do not.
A small Citrus seedling will have a tap root well down into the pot thru various moisture zones, while a Capsicum seedling will have a more fibrous root system staying in the upper levels with better air and drainage. If you use the same media in taller narrow pots, the Citrus roots will be in a higher air zone for longer.
If possible check the pH of the mix with a test kit.

Those seedlings from the kumquat in the first post were still in seedling soil, so general seedling soil without adding coco coir or anything else.
My kaffir lime seedlings have grown beyond that stage and are already transplanted in soil with 50/50 peat/turface.

Regardless of the plant i always start out seeds in general seedling soil.

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