The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: FlyingFoxFruits on July 27, 2014, 08:32:19 PM
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I've finally decided to start sharing most of what I've learned about grafting Myricaira/Plinia (which is also pertinent info for Eugenias, and other plants)....I've come to realize, holding back information that's useful to my fellow growers, is like holding myself back....If I want to excel to the next level, I need to help others around me, and learn from their questions, and from their experiences.....sometimes teaching other people something you love, is the best way to learn more about the subject you're teaching!!
My brother (who will has all the video skills, and equipment) and I, have decided to make a free instructional video soon...where I lay out most of what I know, and really try to encourage the world to start grafting Jaboticabas(and it's relatives).
so please feel free to ask questions here...I will answer them to the best of my ability. There is not much information I'm going to hold back....the only secrets I can't share, are my sources for plant material, and my current experiments
and I will certainly post here to keep the group informed on when the video is going to be ready....(hopefully before this winter)
UPDATE:
here is the completed video!
http://youtu.be/uYY8FGZp8SE (http://youtu.be/uYY8FGZp8SE)
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That's great news. Carlos (CTMIAMI ) posted some avocado grafting videos that were very help full to go for it in chopping down old productive trees and make them have good yields. Visual learning always helps a lot and the knowledge can go far and wide to help promote the species. Givin is livin so sharing will just promote your thing more.
You can't hate on not sharing sources and secret spots. No one shares their best mushroom or ginseng hunting spots, and as soon as a locals only bicycling trail or swimming hole is shared on the web it can just be over for everyone. When your awesome hybrids that fruit bigger, faster , stronger come to light just please sell them and spread them far and wide for the benefit of jabotiholics everywhere. FFF to the world .
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Adam, I have been collecting for 10+ years but never been grafting! Look forward to this! Thanks
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Plant your Jaboticaba seeds now. Start looking for old fruiting plants, for budwood. I am going to do cocktail trees. Lets not forget Eugenias what about a Pitomba ,Cherry of the Rio, Black Surinam cocktail tree.
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I would love to get my hands on that. This is the direction for me in the tropical scene.
This time of the year when everybody has mouthful of mango's and other fruits makes me more determent to get on the bandwagon, but unfortunetly have to start small.(zone 7)
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Great Adam! that's a very wise choice.
I could get budwood from old fruiting plants, some sabara, some similar to grimal and maybe many more... but the people would mail me these budwoods (from Misiones, Brasil, etc.), so I must know what kind of budwood are we talking about, cheers!
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Adam, that is great news!
I have not tried the Myrcarias yet, but with your advice I think I am starting to get my Eugenia grafts to take at a better rate.
Thanks you for sharing all the knowledge you have gained and I loo forward to seeing your video.
Richard
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Can do an example on the white jabo and give us some tips on improving success rates on the white jabo? This is the only sp. Where I have trouble. Trunciflora, grimal, red, and paulista are taking easier than stone fruit.
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Can do an example on the white jabo and give us some tips on improving success rates on the white jabo? This is the only sp. Where I have trouble. Trunciflora, grimal, red, and paulista are taking easier than stone fruit.
thanks everyone for showing interest...
let's get started with some tips for grafting M. aureana...
I only use Sabara rootstock for this species...(i've heard some people recommend the Red jaboticaba, M. cauliflora hybrid, as a rootstock for white jabo, but I don't recommend this at all...the Red jabo suckers way too much)
use a simple cleft graft, and most important, the scions must be taken with woody growth (it can be very young wood, but must have started to peel, and show some woodiness)......also it's always better to take scions earlier than later (this is my experience with all myrciarias, but this holds true more for M. aureana)...so don't worry about taking a scion that has small buds forming....you probably won't notice any buds forming at all.
and I always use buddy tape (never paraflim)...for some reason buddy tape seems to be the best....I suppose because it's more breathable, and less biodegradable...but there is a downfall to using buddy tape..you must eventually unwrap everything you've grafted....which can be harder than grafting itself!
M. aureana must have shade when young, and healing from grafting, I always put them underneath the canopy of a larger jaboticaba tree, and let them heal there.
they can take a while to finally push, up to 2 months sometimes....maybe even longer....but I"ve seen them push after only about 2 weeks.
PS , if you dont have buddy tape, just try bagging your grafted plant, and don't defoliate scion..just cut leaves in half, and cut back any non-woody new growth.....then make sure to place the bagged plant in the shade...and it should have just as much success as using buddy tape.
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Great news Adam . Do you think that grafting on the hybrid could speed up fruiting of a variety that takes normally close to 10 years ?
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Great new Adam . Do you think that grafting on the hybrid could speed up fruiting of a variety that takes normally close to 10 years ?
Luc,
thanks!
no I don't think this would be the case at all..I really don't like to use the Red jabo as rootstock...suckers too much.
to speed up fruition, I think it's best to use really thick scions that have flowered before....
this is where grafting can get very difficult....and people get stingy with scions....imagine cutting off flowering branches of your rare Myrciaria!!
so you see, this limits the amount of mature grafted myrciarias that can be produced each year....you can run out of mature wood very quickly!!
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compatibility chart:
use M. jaboticaba (Sabara) for :
M. cauliflora
M. aureana
M. coronata
M. phitrantha
M. oblongata
M. trunciflora
M. sp (Grimal)
M. spirito-santensis (never tried but sure it works)
M. grandifolia
(i know there are other species that will work with M. jaboticaba, sorry I couldn't list them all, I have only tried so many)
Note: grafting M. cauliflora hybrid (red) seems to make the tree grow less bushy, and is more resistant to high pH, poor soil..but for some reason, I can't seem to get them to bear early....even with large scions, they still seem to take over 2yrs....so it seems smarter to just plant seeds of the most precocious varieties of Myrciaria, unless you want to create a plant with more resilience to poor soils.
some secrets:
M. glazioviana is a great rootstock for some rare species!!! It's like a gateway to expanding your collection...so for all of those who dismissed this plant as worthless....(you done fudged up)....it's what I use to replicate M. strigipes, and M. guaquiea, years before a plant has even flowered...giving me an advantage, not having to source seeds to reproduce rare immature plants. There are certainly other rare species that M. glazioviana could be used for...I'm guessing it would work for the real Myrciaria glomerata, and other similar species (yet to be described)
also!
M. trunciflora works as a rootstock for Plinia edulis! but try using M. jaboticaba, and you will fail (at least I have every time)
and for some of the other species you don't see listed, I'm in the process of finding compatible rootstocks...like M. dubia, P. rivularis, M. tenella, M. floribunda, M. nana, and others....I still haven't finished my research...and it seems like M. jaboticaba is not a suitable rootstock for any of these.
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Ive always wanted to try and graft a M. dubia with a M. glazioviana or a M. vexator, or even all three in one, Have you tried any of these.
Also Thank you for the knowledge about this awesome species. sounds like you working on some cool stuff, cant wait to see the outcome ;D
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Ive always wanted to try and graft a M. dubia with a M. glazioviana or a M. vexator, or even all three in one, Have you tried any of these.
Also Thank you for the knowledge about this awesome species. sounds like you working on some cool stuff, cant wait to see the outcome ;D
good question,
that is one of my experiments (I was keeping secret, but oh well... :P )...I recently realized (with the recommendation from a friend) that M. vexator could be a compatible rootstock for M. dubia....after one attempt grafting this pair, it seems to be working.
this is exciting because M. dubia really suffers in our soils in FL (hating high or even neutral pH it seems), but M. vexator is the exact opposite, it seems to thrive on any soil in FL, as long as it's fertilized and irrigated (and has drainage).
So I will let you know how this works out....I've only grafted one tree so far, but soon I will make some more.
PS...I don't think M. glazioviana is a good match for either M. vexator or M. dubia.
also, making cocktail trees is much easier said than done....it's something like citrus, where some varieties seem to outgrow others...I'm sure you can make a cocktail tree, but you must choose the varieties wisely....M. trunciflora is like a pommelo, it will take over a multi grafted tree (but I've got a cocktail tree with M. trunciflora and M. cauliflora hybrid, growing very well, I just keep the truncilfora section pruned back all the time)
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cool stuff man. maybe the M.vexator will put a little sweetness in the M. dubia also.
It sounds like you can expand pretty hard on this. Just curious in your knowledge what can you graft with the M. vexator and then if you graft the 2 M. dubia and M.vexator would you still be able to graft like a regular M vexator, Ever tried any experiments like that with other myrciaria or plinia species.
also that would be awesome to have a Florida strain of Camu Camu ;D
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cool stuff man. maybe the M.vexator will put a little sweetness in the M. dubia also.
It sounds like you can expand pretty hard on this. Just curious in your knowledge what can you graft with the M. vexator and then if you graft the 2 M. dubia and M.vexator would you still be able to graft like a regular M vexator, Ever tried any experiments like that with other myrciaria or plinia species.
also that would be awesome to have a Florida strain of Camu Camu ;D
you mean like an interstock? where you use a species that's compatible with with your scion to bridge the gap, between a rootstock that's non-compatible with your scion?
i've used M. truncifora to bridge the gap between Plinia edulis and M. jaboticaba.
This is another cool trick....I've only done it once, but need to try again....I think doing this might seriously slow down the growth of Plinia edulis...but have not yet confirmed this....(my Plinia edulis grafted onto M. trunciflora grows slow as heck...but this could be due to other variables than the rootstock)
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Adam , did you ever try airlayering on Myrciaria ?
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Adam , did you ever try airlayering on Myrciaria ?
yes....I didn't ever have much success (I tried M. trunciflora, Plinia edulis, M.jaboticaba, and M.cauliflora hybrid Red)...they would sometimes form nodules where you could see white root cells forming, but this took over 5 months...and by the time roots started to form, something would invariably mess with the marcots....whether it was ants, or birds, or squirrels...something always seemed to mess them up before they would root.
i've seen a man who airlayered jaboticabas in Brazil..(on a video)...and he used Terra vermelha (red earth, looked like clay/mud), and mixed it with some water....into a mud like paste...then he dipped sheets of cotton (looked like a mass of cotton bolls) into the mud....and used this as his medium....and wrapped them with plastic....
i think this is the trick to having successful airlayers...that....or some crazy ass chemicals...(I don't know much about rooting hormones, but i"m sure there are some that will do the trick....I used whatever is readily avaialble in liquid form...I forget the name, but the hormone I used probably wasn't the best....but honestly you don't need hormone at all)
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Wow! Now I can use trunciflora as a intergraft to add on plinia edulis. What other plinia sp are compatible with trunciflora?
Many thanks for sharing! ;D
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Wow! Now I can use trunciflora as a intergraft to add on plinia edulis. What other plinia sp are compatible with trunciflora?
Many thanks for sharing! ;D
that's the kind of excitement I like to see!
(but remember, if you have a cocktail tree your Plinia edulis might grow slow as molasses, and never fruit! I just dont know how it will work over the long haul...I'm assuming it could fruit, but will have reduced productivity, and will take a long time to fruit from grafting.....this could all be totally wrong though...I'm just guessing)
I suspect M. trunciflora could work with P. rivularis, but have yet to try this out...
I tried P. rivularis onto M. vexator but failed (I think I need to try this again, I only tried once)
I know M. truncilfora is probably compatible with most of the species on my list of compatibility for M. jaboticaba (Sabara)..there could be some advantages for using M. trunciflora as a rootstock, but generally speaking, in FL, it's very hard to keep this species happy unless you have good acid soil, and well water that's neutral/or acid...city water or high pH destroys M. trunciflora....so this is why I've never really employed it as a rootstock.
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INTERSTOCK thats the word, alright that sounds like fun. Im excited to see what outcomes are possible. I'll help you out, Im gonna start to get into grafting all my myrciaria and plinia species and i'll let you know the results. Get these species capabilities perfected ;D
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Hi Adam, for Eugenia Uniflora would you also use mature woody wood or tender wood from the tip of the branch? Also is better to do cleft or bark grafting?
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Hi Adam, for Eugenia Uniflora would you also use mature woody wood or tender wood from the tip of the branch? Also is better to do cleft or bark grafting?
Raul,
I have very high success rate using scions about the size of a chopstick, or a bit smaller.
always use a cleft or modified cleft, and don't defoliate scions, cut leaves in half, and cut back any green wood at tips of scion....bag the plant and place in the shade....should be ready to poke holes in the bag after about 2month...gradually remove the bag over the course of 4-10 days.
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ThanksAdam!
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just finished filming the intro....(I think it will make a few people laugh)
hopefully not much longer before the short video is complete.
I will post an update when we start editing.
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I bow to Master Adam's wisdom 8) 8) 8)Thank you for posting ;)
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Great, we should write a resume, a general method... I will be able to graft some scions from fruiting jabos into 2 sabaras I have... should I wait till spring to do it? (in the greenhouse there is a lot of humidity and temps now go from 2º C to 35º C in winter, but I can get 15º c min near the stove)
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Huertas,
you can graft them as long as temps don't really go below 35-38F...it's probably better to keep them above 40F..but I graft them all year long (in zone 9b), and bring some into the green house during winter...just protect them from cold dry winds...and of course temps close to freezing.
some of the more cold sensitive varieties (like Camu camu, or blue jabo)will probably have less success when temps fall below 45F.
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Genial!, Then I can graft them throughout the year.
I will very soon, this week they sent me Jaboticaba scions that can be m. coronata or m. cauliflora: what is the minimum diameter and the ideal diameter of a scion for grafting on a 4 years old sabara rootstock?
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well...that all depends on several factors.
how large is the 4 yr old tree?
(I would try to graft as low as possible, with the largest diameter scion possible...about .5-.75 inch thick)
if this is your first attempt at grafting, I'm guessing it will be difficult for you to use scions so thick...I would recommend using some about .25-.5 inch thick, and you can use scions even smaller...but for smaller scions, it's best to use a smaller rootstock.
Also using smaller scions is great for replicating a tree, without having to wait for seeds, but it's not so good for increasing precocity..this is why it's advantageous to use very thick mature scions (of certain species that flower on the caulis), in some cases it can help reduce the time it takes a tree to reach fruition by almost half or more.
Genial!, Then I can graft them throughout the year.
I will very soon, this week they sent me Jaboticaba scions that can be m. coronata or m. cauliflora: what is the minimum diameter and the ideal diameter of a scion for grafting on a 4 years old sabara rootstock?
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Great info, can't wait for your big screen debut.
All right Mr. DeMille, he is ready for his close-up!
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well my friends the day has come...
here is a brief tutorial demonstrating some grafting techniques for Myrciaria....(which can be applied to Plinia and Eugenia...and other plants).
sorry there are probably some details that I've left out, but you should be able to get the basic idea.
this video turned out to be more difficult to make than I had anticipated...i had plans to make it much more detailed...but it would have taken me a long time to finish. Maybe in the future we will make another video with all of the information that I'd like to include.....but for now I think this free video will be helpful for those who want to learn how to graft Jaboticabas!
http://youtu.be/uYY8FGZp8SE (http://youtu.be/uYY8FGZp8SE)
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One of the best videos I saw in the year !, the introduction has a sort of quiet humor, and the development about how to graft is very educational.
Still can not find what you mean with buddy tape, here in Argentina do not know what else would be similar to buddy tape; other conclusion I have drawn is that I have to buy a good knife ...
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Great video Adam! Very informative and detailed.
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Two thumbs up!!! Thanks for taking the time to do this Adam. I think one of your side comments is what I have been doing wrong, tying too tightly.
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Excellent video Adam, packed with a lot of information not in the least to mention your MUG, now I'll know you if I ever end up in Florida. Have you every tried keeping your arm that holds your knife braced against your side and pull scion away from you? just another technique ;) 8) 8) 8)
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Really enjoyed your video Adam, it has inspired me to practice! I've tried grafting a few things and only succeeded a couple of times. Loved the finishing technique of twisting the tape. I'm always terrified that I'll cut myself and my wrapping is so clumsy.
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Awesome grafting porn.
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Hi, I have to get a good knife, what to do recommend, this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-P11-Gardening-Knife-Budding/dp/B0001IX75G (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-P11-Gardening-Knife-Budding/dp/B0001IX75G)
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-514718260-navaja-para-injertar-bahco-p11-cuchilla-y-espatula-de-cobre-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-514718260-navaja-para-injertar-bahco-p11-cuchilla-y-espatula-de-cobre-_JM)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31VBFFQHMFL._SX355_.jpg)
or this?
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-516794545-navaja-de-injertar-victorinox-39040-hoja-10cm-suiza-inox-_JM (http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-516794545-navaja-de-injertar-victorinox-39040-hoja-10cm-suiza-inox-_JM)
(http://www.bowie-srl.com.ar/fotos/687.jpg)
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Ahh so sweet! Hippie looking guy feeding a squirrel ;)
Seriously, thanks for the informative video. By the way, second method is preferred way to graft durians. Theory is, durian very sensitive to humidity, so have some leaves for them to breathe.
Huertas, Adam is using this knife. I had few and gave away as a gift. Very sharp, feels good in hand. Lots of them sold, seems to be very popular one. Cheaper than Amazon link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROFESSIONAL-GRADE-QUALITY-NURSERY-GRAFTING-BUDDING-ROSEWOOD-KNIFE-w-BARK-LIFTER-/271011262617?pt=US_Garden_Tools&hash=item3f1987b099 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROFESSIONAL-GRADE-QUALITY-NURSERY-GRAFTING-BUDDING-ROSEWOOD-KNIFE-w-BARK-LIFTER-/271011262617?pt=US_Garden_Tools&hash=item3f1987b099)
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Adam Killer job man ! , The intro was cool ;).....
I think you should make it a Series in Grafting Exotics ! ..
Thanks again Ed..
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Very nice and instructive youtube video Adam! I downloaded it so I always have it handy.
Tomas
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hey thanks everyone for the positive feedback!
I'm glad people are interested in grafting!!
We have plans to make more short videos...so once we start filming, I will let the forum know. We've decided to document some of the amazing people, and tropical fruit collections in the state of FL. So far I've got about 5 individual tropical fruit collectors lined up for an interview and tour of their collection. It will be nice to have these extraordinary plants and people documented for posterity!
to answer a few questions:
Huertas....i think the victorinox knife is a good choice, but there are also cheaper options.
DurianLover....i was using a knife similar to the one you provided a link for....the one I was using only has 3 rivets, and I got it from AM Leonard....the knife you recommended is a bit different...it has 5 rivets, and I've actually bought one of these as well..I did like the knife except the bevel of the blade was not good...it needed to be adjusted, resharpened to make the bevel a bit flatter..the angle was much to sharp, and I had trouble getting the knife to cut properly. After resharpening to my liking the knife was much better....and it cost about half as much as the one from AM leonard.
edzone9...yes we will hopefully make a few more videos on grafting ..but I need to pace myself...it could take me a while to get all those videos completed.
scottR....yes i think I know what you're talking about with the cutting technique...when the scions are too thick to cut using my usual method, i do something like what you described.
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Boas Adão, ;D
Thanks so much for sharing this vid on grafting them jabs with us...the vid is top notch to watch and very informative, as usual. 8)
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Is it important the copper back of the knife to remove bark? I just do not get the victorinox with that back of copper, but can get the Bahco with that part of copper....
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Huertas,
there are plenty of good options! Just make sure the knife is for grafting, and beveled on one side (for right handed use, unless you are left handed...and I'm not sure where to get a lefty knife)
also, here is a knife that I like...it looks like a good deal too, because the lot had a minor defect...it shouldn't detract from the performance of the knife though. So maybe this is a good choice? the seller seems legit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antonini-Professional-Grafting-Budding-Knife-Wood-Handle-65mm-/221446100281?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item338f375539 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antonini-Professional-Grafting-Budding-Knife-Wood-Handle-65mm-/221446100281?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item338f375539)
here is a link to amazon selling the same brand of knife, full price without defect...although the style is different
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DTI8NBS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00DT9ZD7O&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=13Z4T31M04J630HQ1G5D (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DTI8NBS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00DT9ZD7O&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=13Z4T31M04J630HQ1G5D)
and here is an ebay link for buddy tape!
also Behl (forum member sells this on the for sale section! maybe cheaper through Behl if he ships internationally!)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Buddy-Tape-for-Grafting-by-Aglis-Made-in-Japan-/121257080382?pt=US_Garden_Tools&var=&hash=item1c3b7c363e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Buddy-Tape-for-Grafting-by-Aglis-Made-in-Japan-/121257080382?pt=US_Garden_Tools&var=&hash=item1c3b7c363e)
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Beautiful job Adam , after watching the video I started sharpening my grafting knife....I still have a question : I only have mature ( fruiting ) Sabaras and Precose , my aureana is also mature ( 3 to 4 meters tall ) but just don't want to fruit . I am so desperate that I ordered Aureana seeds from different sources , guess what no germination at all ....what the ^%$&* is the problem with this variety ?
After grafting fruiting sabara wood on sabara seedling how fast do you think I can expect fruit ? Would be nice to have small fruiting jabs .
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thanks Luc!
i think the fastest you can get a Sabara to fruit is in about 2.5yrs from grafting...and you won't really get a decent crop until about 4-5 yrs from grafting.
i've seen someone graft a mature sabara scion onto a branch of a large tree, and it produced fruits within 1 year...but this is just one isolated branch...I've never seen a small seedling that was grafted do this....no matter how large the scion is.
So the fastest myrciarias to bear will still take about 2-3 yrs to get any fruits...and some will take much longer, (like truncilfora), but grafting still should cut the time it takes to reach fruition in half!
Beautiful job Adam , after watching the video I started sharpening my grafting knife....I still have a question : I only have mature ( fruiting ) Sabaras and Precose , my aureana is also mature ( 3 to 4 meters tall ) but just don't want to fruit . I am so desperate that I ordered Aureana seeds from different sources , guess what no germination at all ....what the ^%$&* is the problem with this variety ?
After grafting fruiting sabara wood on sabara seedling how fast do you think I can expect fruit ? Would be nice to have small fruiting jabs .
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Nice video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFz6IyPdUNM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFz6IyPdUNM)
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Hi, when should I remove the tape? 1 month? 2 months?
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Hi, when should I remove the tape? 1 month? 2 months?
don't remove the tape until the scion has put out a few flushes of growth....
it usually takes about 2 months for me to remove tape...sometimes even longer....(some people just leave the tape on..it's supposed to disintegrate eventually)
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Great video, good information, I need to start growing jabo rootstocks.
But by far the best part was the intro and the public domain elevator music.
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Hi, when should I remove the tape? 1 month? 2 months?
don't remove the tape until the scion has put out a few flushes of growth....
it usually takes about 2 months for me to remove tape...sometimes even longer....(some people just leave the tape on..it's supposed to disintegrate eventually)
Fine, I dont think it will take: it's my first graft... but I will wait till it shows some sign. If it fails, maybe I can use the rootstock for another attempt.
I made a graft (the first method, without leaves) of coronata on sabara, the sabara must be 4 or 5 years old. It's in the greenhouse with shadecloth/partial shade.
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M. dubia on M. vexator...growing very slow...but still growing. (being watered with high pH city water, which is impossible for me with seedling camu camu)
(http://s28.postimg.cc/wwbsj5ccp/IMG_0075.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wwbsj5ccp/)
(http://s22.postimg.cc/cze4t9gd9/IMG_0076.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cze4t9gd9/)
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Don't buy that Baco knife, it is bevelled on 2 sides, i guess they should call it a budding knife, not a grafting knife.
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M. dubia on M. vexator...growing very slow...but still growing. (being watered with high pH city water, which is impossible for me with seedling camu camu)
(http://s28.postimg.cc/wwbsj5ccp/IMG_0075.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wwbsj5ccp/)
(http://s22.postimg.cc/cze4t9gd9/IMG_0076.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/cze4t9gd9/)
I was able to keep a M. dubia with CA city water relatively happy. I did use chelated iron from time to time though.
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As informational as this video is, I think the main problem is getting rootstock. You might consider another video about growing jaboticaba rootstock. Like what types you recommend, how to best grow them for grafting, how to grow up to size quickly (thats what I would consider the biggest hurdle)
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As informational as this video is, I think the main problem is getting rootstock. You might consider another video about growing jaboticaba rootstock. Like what types you recommend, how to best grow them for grafting, how to grow up to size quickly (thats what I would consider the biggest hurdle)
if u need rootstock just ask! I got em! (have bunches of them)
also....treesnmore might have some too!
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good job with the dubia vexator graft cant wait to see how It grows, thats gonna be one versatile plant being able to grow in such wide conditions if it has characteristics of both.
Have you tried m.vexator on m.dubia rootstock.
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Hey Adam, thanks for the offer, maybe in a couple years when my jabo collection grows out. But actually, a guide to root stocks might be helpful. I'm gonna plant all my sabra seeds next year.
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M. guaquiea on M. glazioviana rootstock...making it's way out of the bag....i have gradually been tearing them off...now they are almost ready to grow unbagged...after I tear holes in the bag I water them really good to reduce any shock from lack of humidity....and then keep them watered regularly, gradually working them into more sunlight as they grow.
(http://s1.postimg.cc/jkoolffpn/IMG_0108.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jkoolffpn/)
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this little test subject has survived, but has grown super slow (Myrciaria dubia [camu camu], on Myrciaria vexator rootstock). Graft union looks decent still...I'm curious to see if it picks up the pace, and puts on some real growth. I'm wondering if the rootstock that i used was somewhat unhealthy? It could be that the roots were compromised, and that's what stunted the growth....or it could be that grafting onto vexator makes the tree grow very slowly (or even worse they are not compatible at all).
(http://s21.postimg.cc/8fq502ayb/IMG_0548.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/8fq502ayb/)
(http://s21.postimg.cc/551s06l0z/IMG_0549.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/551s06l0z/)
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Hi Adam,
I guess your idea may not be good for international trades, at least for me >:(. Nonetheless, I have some queries after watching your video on grafting, hopefully you can enlighten me with some tips. First, you seem to wrap up the scion completely, including over the buds, is it true? Then, the buds would push through the tape, or your buddy tape? Second, can I do a Clive graft with some leaves cut half? Third, what is the common ways to dwaft a fruit tree?
(Will write to you later for order.)
Thanks.
Tuckee
Tuckee,
yes you must wrap the entire scion, even the buds that will eventually break through the tape.
the tape must be stretched thinly over the scion, so it can easily break through.
when i wrap the graft union, i stretch the tape differently, so it's very tight, like a rope.
I use the same tape for everything (buddy tape)...but u can use almost anything to wrap the graft union....just be sure not to let it girdle the tree as it's healing...I always try to remove the tape around the graft union as soon as possible....the tape on the scion can be left on to biodegrade.
yes you can do a cleft with leaves cut in half, but you must bag up the scion, like I did on the second graft in my video (m strigipes on m glazioviana)
you can dwarf a tree by keeping it in a pot sometimes....or you can find a good dwarfing rootstock...quince rootstock is supposed to dwarf loquat...and flying dragon rootstock is supposed to dwarf citrus trees...i'm sure there are dwarfing rootstocks for myrciaria, and annona...and other species...but i don't know which is which at this point...that takes many years of experience...I've only been grafting for about 4-5yrs.
hope this helps!
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have been grafting a few more Camu Camu onto vexator rootstocks..so far, this seems very promising.
I will be interested to see how the growth rate progresses over the year (compared to seedlings).
also, it would be nice to have some city water :P I can't believe I'm saying that....but I'd like to trial them out on some high pH water...to see how much the rootstock helps. For the short time I had my tree at the old location, it was handling city water like a champ...so I'm convinced it will help, but still need to prove it to everyone.
it's still just a dream, but my goal is to see a grove of camu camu in south FL soil, where vexator would thrive, but camu camu wouldn't last six months (without taking drastic measures to correct pH...such as refilling the planting hole with acid soil, or constantly drenching with chelated Fe).
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Nice video. Will give it a try when I get some root stocks going.
I liked the production value, and I get encouragement to see I am not the only one who likes to take my seedlings for a walk in the park, although I usually use a stroller.
I suggest next time to over dub it kung fu style, like this ;D
http://youtu.be/qtm4NraBN4s (http://youtu.be/qtm4NraBN4s)
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here is a grafted M. dubia (on M. vexator rootstock), it's pushing out through the buddy tape.
(http://s13.postimg.cc/hl6l2d637/IMG_1041.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/hl6l2d637/)
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can anyone guess what we got going on in this pic here?
(http://s12.postimg.cc/kqv50te15/IMG_1862.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/kqv50te15/)
(http://s12.postimg.cc/52txu0yfd/IMG_1863.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/52txu0yfd/)
(http://s12.postimg.cc/41tp4whft/IMG_1865.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/41tp4whft/)
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Hi, when should I remove the tape? 1 month? 2 months?
don't remove the tape until the scion has put out a few flushes of growth....
it usually takes about 2 months for me to remove tape...sometimes even longer....(some people just leave the tape on..it's supposed to disintegrate eventually)
Adam, I use buddy tape for most my grafting, and use it even for tying the union, I fold the strip in half length wise and then use that as tying tape. What I have found is that after you graft and depending on what you grafted, sometimes the tape causes girdling of the scion. I had that happen to one mango, and 3 stonefruits. Stonefruits actually got decapitated from high winds. Mango I was able to save but I can see how bark was completely cutoff on all sides.
Now, I remove the union tape in 30-60 days depending on how it grew, and lightly wrap it again with Buddy tape to prevent any moisture loss and allow for further healing of the union. Not sure when you remove the nursery tape if you use it for tying the union.
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Behl
my approach is similar.
i use buddy tape alone sometimes..(but it ends up pissing me off for larger grafts that need to be tied very tight)
for large grafts I like to use green nursery tape
also, rubber bands are good (the ones that are designed for grafting especially) but i never have them at my disposal.
i end up trying to unwrap the union as quickly as possible..it's usually within 30-60 days (rarely within less than 30 days)..but i've killed some rare grafts by unwrapping them when I thought they took...some just take longer than others to heal!
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I had killed few grafts too. to my surprise mangoes are very naughty and difficult. I have had perfectly green scions preserved scions inside the buddy tape for 9 plus months, when I removed the tape from union, I found blackened union. Buddy tape really seals the moisture in.
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it's plinia edulis grafted onto M. trunciflora!
it's been grafted for over 3 yrs, growing slowly, but picking up pace...still very healthy!
I've never been able to graft P. edulis onto M. jaboticaba...but I can graft M. trunciflora onto M. jaboticaba with ease!
so as I've said before, M. trunciflora might be a good interstock for grafting P. edulis onto M. jaboticaba...but it may stunt the plants growth...I have yet to see.
Maybe I will have a better idea in the next 2-3yrs? :Dcan anyone guess what we got going on in this pic here?
(http://s12.postimg.cc/kqv50te15/IMG_1862.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/kqv50te15/)
(http://s12.postimg.cc/52txu0yfd/IMG_1863.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/52txu0yfd/)
(http://s12.postimg.cc/41tp4whft/IMG_1865.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/41tp4whft/)
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Myrciaria dubia (Camu camu), grafted onto Myrciaria vexator (Blue Jaboticaba), I'm sure this is the first time anyone has documented this type of graft.
this looks very promising so far...although the growth rate is excruciatingly slow.
I will have to check my records, but I believe it's been about 1.5yrs since I grafted this tree, and it hasn't grown more than approx, 8inch of new growth.
still it doesn't seem to have issues with incompatablity (yet), and it definitely helps increase resistance to high pH (and the persistent problems that growers in FL will face with nutrient deficiencies).
(http://s29.postimg.cc/s5ijifeg3/IMG_2054.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s5ijifeg3/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/b3ppgbzkz/IMG_2055.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/b3ppgbzkz/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/431pnjxsz/IMG_2056.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/431pnjxsz/)
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Keep up the great experimentation Adam ;), will make growing some of these challenging jabo varieties easier for all who are interested in future! ;) 8)
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Keep up the great experimentation Adam ;), will make growing some of these challenging jabo varieties easier for all who are interested in future! ;) 8)
thanks Robert!
just for the record, here are a few grafts that I know I'm the first to successfully attempt in the USA, and possibly the world:
M. dubia onto M. vexator
M. strigipes onto M. glazioviana
M. guaquiea onto M. glazioviana
Plinia edulis onto M. trunciflora
(Eugenia calycina onto E. involucrata)
:)
coming soon, M. glomerata onto M. glazioviana ;)
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Good job man, That blue camu grape looks like its taking well. Thats going to be some interesting fruit.
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I'm excited to report, one of the rare Myrciarias (at least in USA), that I grafted about 3 yrs ago, is starting to flower. (I will have to post pics of this tree later)
I'm surprised because the scion I used was small (maybe as thick as a chopstick at best)
This is a variety I can't find any information on, and have not been able to find a match throughout years of internet research. I found the tree at my friend Charles Novak's house, so I named it "Novak", or "Novak Tart".
I've only been able to taste a few fruits, but they were acidic and packed with flavor. Not something that would be enjoyed by everyone out of hand, but it would definitely be excellent for the preparation of jams, jellies, juices, wine, etc...
the flowers are on very short peduncles, (shortest I've seen pretty much), the foliage is a bit elongated, and slender (compared to Sabara), and fuzzy. The growth habit is not exactly upright, it seems to spread out horizontally more than anything (but I assume this could be because it's a grafted tree, and the tree I got scions from was grafted as well)
here are pics of the first fruits produced by the mother tree, from which I got my scions (these photos were taken from an earlier post)...it's funny because the mother tree only fruited for the first time last year! It was actually planted in the ground for many years, until the owner recently dug it up, about 3 yrs ago. It really enjoyed all the attention, and the new environment for it's roots to thrive in.
(http://s14.postimg.cc/3w47g9nfh/6_4_2014_012.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/3w47g9nfh/)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/vd7t50ov1/6_4_2014_013.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vd7t50ov1/)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/k9ssd5syl/6_4_2014_014.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/k9ssd5syl/)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/d94skdr6l/6_4_2014_015.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/d94skdr6l/)
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here are pics of that 3yr old grafted "Novak" jaboticaba tree.
i can't believe it's flowering already...the scion was so thin and puny.
the tree is extremely rootbound, I'm sure that helped it decide to flower sooner.
this variety grows at a moderate rate, definitely quicker than other varieties I've grown...I'm praying for some fruit set...I'm excited to taste this unusual tart variety again.
graft union is hard to see, but you can see the scion has red bark, sabara rootstock is more gray/green
(http://s18.postimg.cc/a2d0qg851/IMG_2254.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/a2d0qg851/)
first flowers
(http://s4.postimg.cc/95mdfp03t/IMG_2251.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/95mdfp03t/)
another branch flowering (only found two branches so far with flowers)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/lmxmglknd/IMG_2252.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/lmxmglknd/)
whole tree (sorry contrast sucks, the shape of the tree is hard to see, but it's got a pretty growth habit, unlike sabara...it's canopy is more spreading.)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/9z3km1vih/IMG_2256.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9z3km1vih/)
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Just found this thread Adam, and I am interested on the Myrciaria glomerata/glazioviana differences. I bought some seeds from Vivero Anones a couple years ago, and Sherry had them listed as glomerata. Have you grafted any of the more common Jabo types onto the glomerata/glazioviana species, other than stripes or guaquiea?
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Just found this thread Adam, and I am interested on the Myrciaria glomerata/glazioviana differences. I bought some seeds from Vivero Anones a couple years ago, and Sherry had them listed as glomerata. Have you grafted any of the more common Jabo types onto the glomerata/glazioviana species, other than stripes or guaquiea?
the seeds you got from vivero anones are most certainly M. glazioviana
i am responsible for introducing the real M. glomerata into the USA, and that was just this year!
and to your second question, the answer is yes! and it was a failure!
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this tree is still doing well, but growing very slow.
maybe this rootstock has a dwarfing effect??
Myrciaria dubia (Camu camu), grafted onto Myrciaria vexator (Blue Jaboticaba), I'm sure this is the first time anyone has documented this type of graft.
this looks very promising so far...although the growth rate is excruciatingly slow.
I will have to check my records, but I believe it's been about 1.5yrs since I grafted this tree, and it hasn't grown more than approx, 8inch of new growth.
still it doesn't seem to have issues with incompatablity (yet), and it definitely helps increase resistance to high pH (and the persistent problems that growers in FL will face with nutrient deficiencies).
(http://s29.postimg.cc/s5ijifeg3/IMG_2054.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s5ijifeg3/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/b3ppgbzkz/IMG_2055.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/b3ppgbzkz/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/431pnjxsz/IMG_2056.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/431pnjxsz/)
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We demand current photos of this tree! ;D
this tree is still doing well, but growing very slow.
maybe this rootstock has a dwarfing effect??
Myrciaria dubia (Camu camu), grafted onto Myrciaria vexator (Blue Jaboticaba), I'm sure this is the first time anyone has documented this type of graft.
this looks very promising so far...although the growth rate is excruciatingly slow.
I will have to check my records, but I believe it's been about 1.5yrs since I grafted this tree, and it hasn't grown more than approx, 8inch of new growth.
still it doesn't seem to have issues with incompatablity (yet), and it definitely helps increase resistance to high pH (and the persistent problems that growers in FL will face with nutrient deficiencies).
(http://s29.postimg.cc/s5ijifeg3/IMG_2054.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s5ijifeg3/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/b3ppgbzkz/IMG_2055.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/b3ppgbzkz/)
(http://s29.postimg.cc/431pnjxsz/IMG_2056.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/431pnjxsz/)
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xshen,
here is the grafted Myrciaria duba, on M. vexator rootstock as of today.
it was grafted a little over a year ago.
it's actually growing a little faster than I thought...pushing out some new growth now.
(http://s24.postimg.cc/93k0pyl5t/IMG_2809.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/93k0pyl5t/)
(http://s24.postimg.cc/4gdyo6xsx/IMG_2810.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4gdyo6xsx/)
(http://s24.postimg.cc/ddyoljq8x/IMG_2811.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ddyoljq8x/)
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Hello Adam, can you give me a top 3 list of varieties of Jab to use for rootstock for each of these three conditions: 1) adaptability to high pH soils 2) plant vigor 3) early fruiting?
I'm wondering if there's anything you recommend besides Sabara and the Hybrid? Perhaps Vexator?
Thanks Adam,
Simon
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Hello Adam, can you give me a top 3 list of varieties of Jab to use for rootstock for each of these three conditions: 1) adaptability to high pH soils 2) plant vigor 3) early fruiting?
I'm wondering if there's anything you recommend besides Sabara and the Hybrid? Perhaps Vexator?
Thanks Adam,
Simon
Simon,
i don't know of a variety that induces early fruition when used as rootstock
Sabara has been my go to choice (for most of the species with similar bark, and fruiting habit)...it is adaptable, and vigorous.
I have not experimented with the other species as much, simply because they are too valuable a seedlings, instead of rootstocks.
Grimal must be a good choice for certain applications, being that it seems highly tolerant of city water, heat, and drought....but i never employ it as a rootstock, because there is such demand for the seedlings...and it's almost a sin to topwork such an amazing tree, thus inhibiting it's ability fruit.
I have not experimented with vexator, but i think you will run into compatibility issues...only a handful of species are a decent match.
I have not used the red either, being that it produces more suckers than Lukas R. Weisgram ;D
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Thanks Adam, I'll stick with the Sabara rootstock for now. I'll keep everyone updated on the experiments.
Simon
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it would be really wonderful if M. vexator turns out to be a decent rootstock for M. dubia. So far the results seem promising.
I can just imagine the first commercial grove of Camu camu in the USA. Homestead has the right temperature in the winter, but has the wrong soil biology, and pH for growing Camu camu (need acid pH). The Blue jaboticaba (M. vexator), which thrives in Homestead's soil, could be the solution for this problem, and the key that unlocks a new profitable crop.
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Thanks Adam, I'll stick with the Sabara rootstock for now. I'll keep everyone updated on the experiments.
Simon
Simon,
don't let me discourage you from experimenting with some of these unconventional combinations. Some of my statements (assumptions) about graft compatibility are probably inaccurate.
I didn't think Plinia edulis could be grafted onto M. jaboticaba, but recently there was a member who posted pics that look legit, of such a graft. I've tried this graft at least a dozen times, and have failed every time. However, I was able to graft Cambuca onto M. trunciflora. (and I have grafted cambuca onto cambuca)
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Excuse me for participating in the conversation, but I have a doubt:
What is the difference between Myrciaria Glazoviana and Myrciaria Glomerata?
Would not be synonyms?
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it would be really wonderful if M. vexator turns out to be a decent rootstock for M. dubia. So far the results seem promising.
I can just imagine the first commercial grove of Camu camu in the USA. Homestead has the right temperature in the winter, but has the wrong soil biology, and pH for growing Camu camu (need acid pH). The Blue jaboticaba (M. vexator), which thrives in Homestead's soil, could be the solution for this problem, and the key that unlocks a new profitable crop.
I used pure swamp mud for one of my camu with a ph of 5 and with added nitrogen it makes a perfect soil mix, their growing great and they have withstood that past 2 years here uncovered, especially in the swamp where it blocks wind and stays warm, so i wouldnt doubt if we have the potential here in central florida.
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Excuse me for participating in the conversation, but I have a doubt:
What is the difference between Myrciaria Glazoviana and Myrciaria Glomerata?
Would not be synonyms?
two entirely different species that have been the subjects of a taxonomic travesty.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2169.msg184610#msg184610 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2169.msg184610#msg184610)
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it would be really wonderful if M. vexator turns out to be a decent rootstock for M. dubia. So far the results seem promising.
I can just imagine the first commercial grove of Camu camu in the USA. Homestead has the right temperature in the winter, but has the wrong soil biology, and pH for growing Camu camu (need acid pH). The Blue jaboticaba (M. vexator), which thrives in Homestead's soil, could be the solution for this problem, and the key that unlocks a new profitable crop.
I used pure swamp mud for one of my camu with a ph of 5 and with added nitrogen it makes a perfect soil mix, their growing great and they have withstood that past 2 years here uncovered, especially in the swamp where it blocks wind and stays warm, so i wouldnt doubt if we have the potential here in central florida.
the big problem here in Central FL will be the winter cold.
this is one of the most cold sensitive species of Myrciaria, all it would take is one bad winter, with a few nights below 28-30F, and the trees would be critically injured, or killed.
it takes so long to get them established, it would be a real kick in the nuts to have a grove that froze over. It could be done, but you'd almost have to keep them in pots, and in a greenhouse...or have some way to protect them when it freezes.
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some fall grafted trees, almost ready to sell...maybe in 30-40 days...I should have made a larger batch!
Grommel, and White
(http://s4.postimg.cc/q1v5a99tl/IMG_3154.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/q1v5a99tl/)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/ixdc182k9/IMG_3153.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ixdc182k9/)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/mfpbxm3g9/IMG_3155.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mfpbxm3g9/)
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I'm getting reports of cambuca being compatible with sabara!
I have to try this graft again...maybe I can get it to work?
I wonder why I've had so many failures?
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some fall grafted trees, almost ready to sell...maybe in 30-40 days...I should have made a larger batch!
Grommel, and White
(http://s4.postimg.cc/q1v5a99tl/IMG_3154.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/q1v5a99tl/)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/ixdc182k9/IMG_3153.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ixdc182k9/)
(http://s4.postimg.cc/mfpbxm3g9/IMG_3155.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/mfpbxm3g9/)
DO you still have grafted aureana? If so, cuanto cuesta?
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Dang! those are some nice looking trees!
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Put me down for one, and hopefully some other Myrciaria grafts.
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Put me down for one, and hopefully some other Myrciaria grafts.
they are ready for pick up now, but are just a bit too fragile to ship...maybe ready to ship in another 20-30 days.
have just a few aureana and Grimal...in one gal pots.
if all goes well, I should have a few grafted coronata var. Restinga trees ready soon (but scion wood is not mature, so trees will still take a while to fruit)
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Great video. I'm trying to graft my atemoya on cherimoya seedlings. I know it might not be the right time but I'm experimenting. Hope I'll get better or luck. Thanks for sharing.
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Hey Adam,
This blonde German girl with the YouTube channel 'Julie's Jungle" has mentioned FFF in a few of her videos... I think she might like you ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMs8LUykAlg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMs8LUykAlg)
https://youtu.be/pGbM5pv0akU?t=5m37s (https://youtu.be/pGbM5pv0akU?t=5m37s)
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Hey Adam,
This blonde German girl with the YouTube channel 'Julie's Jungle" has mentioned FFF in a few of her videos... I think she might like you ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMs8LUykAlg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMs8LUykAlg)
https://youtu.be/pGbM5pv0akU?t=5m37s (https://youtu.be/pGbM5pv0akU?t=5m37s)
Thanks for the link!
She makes me want to learn how to speak German!
;D
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Great video. I'm trying to graft my atemoya on cherimoya seedlings. I know it might not be the right time but I'm experimenting. Hope I'll get better or luck. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I think you can succeed this time of year with annonas, but it's important to keep the temps, humidity, and light levels high....when temps go into the low, mid forties you start to get more problems
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so me and my friend nullzero were wondering if you can graft camu camu to sabra root stock. would the camu camu grow ok or will it have a delayed death. for example like when you graft black sapote to a persimmon root stock.
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Should move this to Tropical Fruit Discussion. It was posted under the buy trade forum.
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You may already know this, but I believe blue jaboticaba (P. vexator) is the best rootstock for camu camu.
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And be sure to use electrical or duct tape... ??? ::) :-[
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And be sure to use electrical or duct tape... ??? ::) :-[
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHoNWwhzh3M#)
I have big, clumsy fingers, alright!?!
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Although it can be done year round, I think now is a good time to start grafting some of the Plinias/Myrciarias (in my area at least).
I will be sure to post once I have some for sale...with some luck, before the end of this year... ;D