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Messages - CoPlantNut

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Muntingia Dropping Flowers
« on: June 15, 2020, 09:21:35 PM »
When I had a Muntungia- in my basement under artificial light and without any pollinators available- the fruit would still form once the tree got old enough. Many trees start "practice flowering" before they're ready to hold fruit; maybe you just need to wait a few months before it is willing to hold fruit. Once my tree matured, it produced plenty of fruit, which I found to be lacking in flavor (your experience may be different) and then I gave my Muntingia away...

2
The Colorado mangosteen is doing well; it has been trimmed back twice now as it wants to get taller than 5' and I don't have the room. No hint of flowers forming on it yet, but it is only 4.5-5 years old so I'm not really expecting any yet. If it objects to being kept less than 5 feet tall it may never flower, though it is cooperating nicely with increased branching without getting too tall.  All of the G. xanthochymus and G. hombroniana nurse rootstocks have died off, so it is living only on its own roots at this point, but it seems perfectly happy and healthy still in a 3-gallon fabric pot.

Sometime in the next 2-4 years I hope to get flowers!

   Kevin

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best American Garcinias?
« on: December 21, 2015, 11:22:59 AM »
I have grafted the Mexican Garcinia, Achachairu, and G. intermedia onto each other (every possible rootstock / scion combination among those 3) and all seem happy after 2 years.  My Mexican Garcinia on an Achachairu rootstock with secondary G. intermedia rootstock is about 10X larger than the seedlings the scion came from.

Wow, you're gonna inspire me and others for sure! Can you say more about the secondary rootstock? Does that mean multiple rootstocks for one tree? Did you do that in a pot or in the ground?

Yes, a lot of my Garcinias are multiple rootstock.  I have several multiple-rootstock Mexicans and they are growing a bit faster than single-rootstock (ungrafted) specimens.  But I happened to have a more mature Achachairu with an extra G. intermedia rootstock (multi-species, multi-rootstock) that I grafted a few of the Mexican seedlings on as scions, and those took off and are now 3-4 feet tall at 2 years post-graft.  They would probably be 6 feet or taller if I let them, but I'm severely height-limited so they get chopped when the whole plant approaches 5' tall.

All tropicals I have are in pots; I don't have a greenhouse to plant anything in the ground.

   Kevin

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best American Garcinias?
« on: December 20, 2015, 09:06:08 PM »
What info do we have about grafting compatibility between these American Garcinias? Any chance of grafting G. vleerackerii or G. humilis onto G. intermedia? Has anybody successfully grafted G. vleerackerii onto G. humilis yet?

I have grafted the Mexican Garcinia, Achachairu, and G. intermedia onto each other (every possible rootstock / scion combination among those 3) and all seem happy after 2 years.  My Mexican Garcinia on an Achachairu rootstock with secondary G. intermedia rootstock is about 10X larger than the seedlings the scion came from.

   Kevin

5
Hey Kevin, how's the mangosteen coming along? Do you think it'll flower? And are you planning on potting up into 15+ gals or keeping them small?

The mangosteen is doing well. 3 months ago it was topped at about 4.5' as I cannot let it get over 6' tall; it is sulking a bit from that and has slowed new growth, but that was sort of the point.

It is still barely 4 years old now so I'm not expecting any flowers for a few more years, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

I'm contemplating moving it up to a 5 gallon fabric pot soon; it won't be getting a 15-gallon pot for a very long time as I want to force it to stay small and compact.

My second mangosteen (from Ethan) is obviously a different variety and is much more compact, only 2.5' tall but has almost as many leaves and branches on it at just a slightly younger age.  If I had to bet, I'm guessing it will be the first to flower for me because I won't have to torture it as much to keep it small.

   Kevin

6
Kevin,

congrats!
your plant must be from the same  batch of seeds as mine....it's like the exact same size!

nice working getting a lone plant to fruit...mine had tons of flowers, but only a few fruits...I think my greenhouse gets a bit too hot...I'm still trying to figure out the best way to keep it cool, with fresh air circulating.

My plant used to be about 2 feet taller, but got a haircut shortly before it flowered.  Not sure if the trim job is what triggered it to flower.

Luckily the plant does seem to either be self-fertile, or can set fruit with E. reinwardtiana or E. neonitida pollen...

   Kevin

7
Mine finally fruited at 3 years old, in a 3-gallon pot:





As Adam said, the fruit is slightly fuzzy; the one my plant chose to hold (of 2 flowers) ended up being slightly larger than a US quarter.

   Kevin

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Passionfruit Trellis Ideas
« on: February 16, 2015, 02:49:50 PM »
Kevin - ah-ha! yes, your experience is what I'm reading about others having gone thru. I want to avoid that. But you mentioned cross-pollination - I am not readily finding anything about pollination requirements for P. incarnata. Does one need multiple plants for fruit-set?

I got 0% fruit set when self-pollinated, but almost 100% fruit set when crossed with P. 'Incense', which is 50% P. incarnata.

   Kevin

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Passionfruit Trellis Ideas
« on: February 14, 2015, 02:19:30 PM »
Yes, I planted P. incarnata here in Colorado (zone 5) and it was an aggressive spreader, even here at the edge of its hardiness.  It spread underground 20' from the original planting site in 1 year- in heavy clay soil!

It took a couple years to finally kill it all off when I decided to get rid of it.  It is hardy here and will set fruit (with hand-cross-pollination) but the season in my area of Colorado isn't long enough to let the fruit ripen.

   Kevin

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: condo mango trees
« on: October 28, 2014, 04:45:49 PM »
Yes, the LEDs are expensive-- and a cheap $200 setup with MH or CMH (which I would still recommend above a MH bulb-- and they're cheaper!) will certainly keep plants alive over the winter, though they will require quite a bit of hardening off before putting them outdoors again. 

The price justification really comes down to how many years you plan on using the lights; if you're only intending to keep your trees under lights for one year, LEDs aren't going to be the cheapest option.  Most of the people on this forum that have grown mango trees under lights only did so for a single year before giving up and disappearing, so LEDs wouldn't be a great investment for them.  (At the same time, I'd bet some of those people wouldn't have given up if they had used LEDs...)  If you're a confirmed nutcase like me, they pay for themselves in about 8 months of use.

Besides just the electrical savings, LEDs have many other advantages over HID lights which are hard to appreciate until you've tried growing plants with HID.  I struggled with tropical fruit trees for 15 years under HID lights, but nothing better was available.  LED lights don't burn leaves, make plants grow leggy, pose a fire hazard or a mercury contamination hazard.  And you'd be shocked at how much better LEDs grow, flower and fruit plants, but to really appreciate all these things you need to grow with HID lights first.

And just FYI, between 400W, 600W, and 1000W, 600W puts out a lot more light. Meaning the amount of light being put out compared to the amount of watts being used, is the highest with 600W. It is the most efficient. A 400W bulb will cover a area of max 5'x5'. I would go with two 400W or even two 600W lights rather than one 1000W.

Redhaus is correct that among regular HPS lights, the 600W version is the most efficient in terms of light per watt.  600 watt metal halide lights have really only been available for less than a year now and I don't know of anyone that's used them or if they are more efficient than the 1000W MH.  But I also would generally recommend more, smaller HID lights than a single large 1000W light for both light distribution purposes and because you'd be able to keep the lights a bit closer to your trees.  The 1000W bulbs will generally scorch anything within 2-3 feet; my experience with the 400W bulbs was that plants only started blackening when getting about 18 inches away.

And I know the tempered glass safety lens on HID reflectors costs a bit more and steals about 10% of the light, but I've also known several people who were severely injured by exploding HID bulbs (though at least the wounds are self-cauterizing!) because there was no safety lens in their reflector.  If you go with an open reflector, just make sure to be extremely cautious with the bulb- MH bulbs run about 500 degrees, HPS 1000 degrees and CMH 1500 degrees- and all will explode if you touch them or spray them with water when they are on.

   Kevin

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: condo mango trees
« on: October 27, 2014, 08:06:21 PM »
Do the LED systems you write about use 3watt LEDs? I have a led system on my aquarium. Pretty amazing how much better the 3watt LEDs are compared to the older one watt ones. I haven't  researched it in a few years but when I was buying my system they were just starting to make 10watt LEDs.

The Black Dog LED lights use only 5W diodes.  You're absolutely correct that the 3W diodes are a huge improvement from 1W diodes; it's kind of like the jump from the old T12 fluorescent tubes to the newer T5 tubes-- much more intensity.  The 5W diodes offer even more intensity, which is really important when you start wanting to grow taller plants like trees with them.

The 10W LEDs available on the market now come in 2 colors: blue and "white", which is actually a blue LED covered with a phosphor to shift about 70% of the light into the yellow range.  While the white LEDs are great for indoor lighting for humans (our eyes are most sensitive to yellow light; this is why lumen measurements preferentially weight yellow light above all else) they don't work great for growing plants, as they don't utilize much yellow light.  Our experiments have shown that the 10W white LEDs grow plants just about as well as our mix of different 5W diode colors-- they just take twice the wattage to do it.  So until other colors become available in 10W LED diodes, the 5W diodes seem to be the best at the moment.

   Kevin

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: condo mango trees
« on: October 27, 2014, 02:25:10 PM »
I've used fluorescent, metal halide, ceramic metal halide and HPS in the past with varying success; among those, I would recommend the ceramic metal halide- it has a more balanced spectrum with some UV and keeps the plants happier over the winter than the other choices.

About 5 years ago I tried LEDs, and was very disappointed; then 2 years ago I tried Black Dog LED and was so impressed with the results that I gave away all my other lights and switched exclusively to LED.  I remained so impressed that I quit my day job and joined the company- I've never seen plants grow as well under any other artificial light as they do with our LEDs.  The LED spectrum is tuned to keep plants dense and compact, encourage both growth and flowering, and has UV and NIR light to get proper pigmentation and flavinoid production out of plants.  (Many fruits grown under HPS or Metal Halide just don't taste right as there isn't UV in the spectrum.)

The only disadvantage to good LED grow lights is the up-front cost; they will pay for themselves in saved electricity and bulb replacement costs in 6-18 months (depending on your setup) but they are much more expensive than the street lights (HID / HPS / MH / CMH) up front.

Black Dog LED is headquartered up here in Boulder, if you'd ever like to swing by and see our lights in action.  Our office plant room doesn't have any fruiting mangoes at the moment, but we do have miracle fruit, mulberries, carambola and other tropical fruit trees with fruit right now.  And if you'd like any tropical fruit trees, winter time is approaching and I have to thin out quite a few to make room for all of them back inside!  I believe I also have some branches of the 'Pickering' mango that are just about at the right stage for grafting...

Some pics of our office plant room:
https://www.blackdogled.com/blog/category/bodhi-garden/

   Kevin

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina triloba experience in Colorado
« on: October 18, 2014, 12:28:43 AM »
Thanks all,

I cut open the 2nd fruit today and shared it with my co-workers- everyone agreed it is delicious.  Not just good, but excellent.  I'm hoping the named varieties I have with supposedly superior seed-to-flesh ratio and better yields taste this good!

My grandma in upstate New York has two she got from a nursery that are now 15-20' tall and haven't flowered yet.  I have 5 seedlings in pots growing.  Would love to have them fruiting here alongside cherimoya, atemoyas and sugar apple

My tree has taken 15 years to reach 9' tall; that may be from getting full sun, high wind and extreme winter cold from an early age.  But 20' tall without a flower?  Even in a marginal climate, mine bloomed at 5 feet tall (9 years old).

   Kevin

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina triloba experience in Colorado
« on: October 17, 2014, 10:14:24 AM »
Thanks all,

I have another 2 varieties grafted onto the tree so far, with 5 more ready to go on in Spring 2015.  The grafted branches just didn't bear any flowers this spring so I still had to travel for pollen.

My 2nd-oldest pawpaw tree-- a 6-year-old grafted 'Sunflower' variety about 5' tall-- did set a lot of flower buds last fall, but then decided to die back to just above the graft this spring before breaking dormancy.  None of my other varieties (including grafts on the big tree) seem to be setting flower buds this fall either, so next spring I'll probably still have to travel for pollen.

Even when I have multiple varieties on the same tree I'll likely still hand-pollinate to help with fruit set, but at least I won't have to travel for the pollen!

   Kevin

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Asimina triloba experience in Colorado
« on: October 17, 2014, 02:49:38 AM »
Here's a picture of the top 2/3 of the tree from a month ago that I should have included above:



In the past 2 days its leaves are starting to turn yellow; for 15 years it has never been wrong about the last frost of spring or the first frost of fall, so if I'm to believe its forecasting abilities, I only have about a week to enjoy fresh tomatoes before the first frost.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Asimina triloba experience in Colorado
« on: October 17, 2014, 02:41:27 AM »
In 1999 (15 years ago) I planted 2 Asimina triloba (pawpaw) seedlings, each 1 year old, of unknown but supposedly "good" parentage.

One didn't make it through the first winter, but the other slowly grew over the years. 

Pawpaw are supposedly zone-5 hardy, but prefer acidic soil, low wind, and lots of water.  My area of Colorado is zone 5 (-25F max-- at least in the past 20 years) of high-altitude (5200 feet above sea level) desert-- 14" moisture per year on average, with extremely alkaline (pH 8.2-8.4) heavy clay "soil".  Even worse, we often have 6-8 weeks of warm non-freezing weather in the spring, followed by a hard freeze before the warm season really begins.  Only 5 of the approximately 30 grafted and seedling trees I've planted to date survived their first winter.  But my remaining original seedling tree has slowly grown each year and has never been fooled by the late frosts-- or the early frosts-- yet.

In 2009 (10 years old) it bloomed for the first time; I tried self-pollination but nothing set.

For the next 5 years (2010-2014) I drove to one or both of the other 2 blooming-size pawpaw trees in the state of Colorado (that I'm aware of) trying to cross-pollinate my tree.  The other trees are 30 and 50 miles away from me, so a single act of cross-pollination takes 2-3 hours.   No fruit set at all, until this spring.

This spring about 80% of the 70 or so flowers I hand-pollinated started setting fruit, whether the pollen was from my tree or another.  Ultimately though, all the self-pollinated fruit clusters dropped off at about 1" long (per fruit).  3 cross-pollinated clusters held on and got larger-- 2 of 1 lobe / fruit, 1 of 2 lobes / fruits. 

A visiting dog removed 1 of the fruits midway through the summer (along with the whole 4'x5' branch it was on).  15 years after planting it, and with 5 years of driving for hours each spring trying to cross-pollinate it, I wanted to taste the fruit.

Here are 2 of the 3 remaining fruit in mid-August:


I jealously guarded the remaining fruit from squirrels, who were luckily much more interested in the adjacent peach tree.  It started getting cold here about a month ago; we could have had a frost or hard freeze many times by now, but the pawpaw fruit weren't showing any signs of ripeness.

4 days ago after several near-frosts and one very slight frost, I noticed that a squirrel had taken a bite out of one of the still-firm and fully green fruit.  Fearing it would rot or get attacked again, I picked it. 

I've been waiting 15 years to try this fruit, and I had to pick my first one before it wanted to come off the tree.



After sitting on the counter for 3 days, it started giving off a wonderful aroma of jackfruit and Granny Smith apples, but was still firm.

This evening it had the same fragrance, just more intense, and the undamaged fruit was soft, so I cut it open:



My first chance to try the fruit from a tenacious but otherwise unknown seedling (and my first pawpaw fruit ever):

Seed to flesh ratio: Poor; about 40% seed, 60% flesh.  I got about 1/3 cup of flesh out of the fruit.

Texture: 90% ripe banana, 10% pear / ripe cherimoya.  Very pleasant in my opinion.

Flavor: I'm horrible at describing flavor, but I'd say it was 90% really good cherimoya (though not quite as sweet), 10% bubble gum.  No noticeable different aftertaste.  Very, very tasty in my opinion.  Almost worth waiting 15 years for, and certainly worth the drive to cross-pollinate next year if necessary.  Hopefully next year I can get more than 3 fruit!

I still have 1 fruit hanging on the tree and the damaged fruit which will likely be eaten tomorrow-- it just isn't quite as soft as the one I ate tonight.

There's nothing quite like trying a new fruit for the first time; pawpaw has been on my list for a long time and it looks like I got lucky with a good-tasting seedling; I'd rather have a poor seed-to-flesh ratio than a poorly-flavored fruit with no seeds.  I look forward to tasting the 7 other named varieties I've got growing!

   Kevin

 

17
I have 3 multi-rootstock mangoes (9 months - 14 months old); all are growing well and much faster than single-rootstock mangoes, but none are to fruiting size yet.  The first multi-rootstock mango I grafted (Pickering on top) about 2 years ago was given away and I don't know if it is still alive or not.

   Kevin

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Hypertufa?
« on: October 11, 2014, 01:31:12 AM »
Hypertufa is locally popular for making troughs / planters for alpine rock garden plants.  I have personally made a planter before from it, rather successfully on the first try, which testifies to the ease of use. They apparently even handle freeze / thaw cycles well, not that you'd be (hopefully!) experiencing in your greenhouse.

The only drawback I'm aware of is the general high pH associated with the cement component, but I've seen all manner of plants which don't require highly acidic soil growing in hypertufa planters here.  Blueberries and miracle fruit might (?) object to them.

   Kevin

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 21, 2014, 05:02:55 PM »
WOW!!  Over a $1000.00 for a grow light!  You are serious!

Yes, unfortunately good LED lights are expensive up-front, but they pay for themselves over time in reduced electricity, cooling costs and not having to change out bulbs-- not to mention that they grow plants MUCH better than other artificial lights because of the optimized spectrum.  Compared to the 400W HID bulbs (450W actual draw) I was running / replacing each year, my 450W (actual draw) LED lights paid for themselves in reduced cooling / electrical costs in about 18 months-- and I have several years left before I need to think about replacing them.  My plants are a lot healthier and fruiting more as well, and I don't have to worry about a ruptured HID bulb starting a fire...

   Kevin 

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 21, 2014, 12:58:55 PM »
By the sound of it, for potting on into air pots, I think it might be worth adding some perlite to a 'well draining' potting compost, even in an air pruning pot, to aid drainage and avoid root rot. I have no problem with watering every day or two, it is part of my routine to give my strawberry plants a drop of water every day, and my chilli every couple of days.

If you're already comfortable watering every day / every other day, you can keep your mango in a small pot for a long time- I have a multi-rootstock mango (4 different rootsystems grafted to a single trunk) in a 2 gallon fabric pot planted in nothing but fine pine bark and Turface MVP (an extremely well-drained mix); it needs watering every 2 days but the trunk is already 1" thick with a nice, well-branched canopy at 4-5 feet tall.

Cheers,
   Kevin

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 21, 2014, 12:07:25 PM »
I have been pondering potting on of the seedlings this morning... I think if I leave them in the metal planter over winter, they will become root bound to some extent, and I don't want this to happen so early in their lives. I have been thinking about the air pots. I have some 30cm (about 2.5 gallon) ceramic terracotta pots I could use, however, I think if I plant the trees in them now, I think I might need to pot-up next year sometime, and am worried about damaging the trees doing that, as they will still be quite small with weak trunks.

I am thinking about getting a couple of 20 litre air pots, think these might be enough to support the trees through next year, and not be too big to keep in the house and move outside on sunny days: Dimensions: Diameter = 312mm Height = 315mm Volume =19.5ltrs http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIR-POTS-20-L-AMAZING-ROOTS-AMAZING-YIELDS-/171439504634?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item27ea973cfa

I may end up needing much larger pots (10 gallon+), at which point I will probably leave them outisde all summer, with a portable greenhouse to put them in at night. If I get that far I will probably get a trolley, so I can move them in/out of the greenhouse, and wheel them indoors over winter.

You mentioned that the breathable pots lose more moisture. With this in mind, if I get some air pots, I am considering planting the trees in some "free draining" compost and not adding any extra minerals for drainage (Perlite etc.).

From my experience with mangoes and many other trees being grown in pots mostly indoors with the intention of keeping them in pots for their entire life, I would still recommend an air-pruning pot and a well-draining mix but I wouldn't place a just-germinated seedling in a 20L pot.  Even in air-pruning pots, when you put a plant into a large pot, its roots will immediately seek to grow out as far as they can, and they neglect "filling out" the area in the middle of the pot, making it just wasted space / added weight, and can sometimes lead to root rot problems.

I have best luck with mango seedlings keeping them in a small root-pruning pot (1G / 4L) for the first year or so.  When they start needing to be watered more often than you want to water them, it's time to give them a slightly larger pot-- from a 1G / 4L pot I would transplant into a 3G / 12L pot, then into a 5G / 19L pot, then a 7G / 27L pot.  Doing this will force the plant to make use of all of its available root room and give you a very healthy root system, while keeping the plant as compact as possible (which you're going to need for the long-term growing indoors and out!).

Keep in mind that since you're growing these mango seedlings indoors without supplemental artificial light, they will grow significantly slower than they would if they were in a pot spending 99% of their time outdoors in a sunny subtropical / tropical location.  Root rot is going to be a significant threat; using a well-drained mix in an appropriately-small air-pruning pot may mean that you have to water the seedlings every 4-6 days or so to start, getting down to every 2 days or so within 6 months if your seedlings are growing vigorously, at which point it may be time to move them up to a slightly larger pot.

Just my two cents...

   Kevin

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 09, 2014, 05:27:14 PM »
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a detailed post Kevin, and for the realistic feedback about how to achieve a fruiting tree. You are pushing the envelope more than I am likely too, by a long way, with your artificial indoor tropical fruit factory!

I will look out for a smart pot for now, as I may need that within the next year.

So you think that in the longer term, light is probably the main issue, 450W of LED light seems huge, 20 watts of LED keeps my kitchen fairly well it - but I know how dim normal indoor lighting really is compared to natural light.

I will defer having to worry about that until I have a tree that has made it to the stage where it might possibly bear fruit in the near future. I also hope that the cost of LED technology will be lower if I reach the stage of having to consider it seriously.

Thanks again!
Tim

A Smart Pot or other type of root-pruning pot would be best- and I also highly recommend moving up pot sizes slowly if you intend to keep these trees potted in the long run...  The 1-year-old multi-rootstock grafted mango tree in my office here is 5 feet tall in a 2-gallon fabric pot (but it does get watered every other day).

Unfortunately, plants need energy to grow and fruit; the 450W LED panel will really only cover a 1-square-meter area with enough intensity to fruit a mango tree-- if the tree is more than 1 square meter, you'd need more light!

Unfortunately, zone denial isn't cheap.   :-\

  Kevin

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 09, 2014, 04:04:37 PM »
Wow that is impressive. Do you know the name for the plastic container with the Pickering in, and how many gallons it contains? It looks like it could be perfect if I get my wee Honey Gold plants to fluorish.
That Pickering was in a 7-gallon fabric Smart Pot, with gritty mix.

More encouraging is that your climate looks quite similar to the one here, I just checked the Wikipedia page for Boulder County and it seems the temperatures follow a similar pattern, although a few degrees warmer and cooler, at both extremes, on average. Right now it's about 14 Celsius outside at 8PM here in my arera.

Yes, being much further from the ocean, it gets warmer here during the summer and cooler during the winter, with less humidity, more wind and fewer cloudy days.  It's been 14C at 8pm here recently too, but it is supposed to get below 4C in two days...

I can't really afford or justify to myself spending $1000 dollars on some Black Dog lights for now, but they look mighty impressive.

If you had to go without the Black Dogs, do you think there is enough sun in the summer to have some sort of growing season or fruit bearing, if you were able to get them outside in the daylight on most days, for say 4 months of the year? This is what I hope to do as I start my mango growing adventure.

I've grown mango trees from seed many, many times before over the past 35 years, giving them sunny windows in the wintertime and giving them 4 summer months outside.  I never got a mango to flower or fruit for me before, but I also only typically kept them until they were 3-4 years old.  I've grown many tropical fruit trees the same way and had success getting fruit from some of them (citrus, papayas, Acerola) but even when I do manage to get them to fruit, it never tastes as good or gets as big as if the plant had adequate light year-round.    For plants that grow their fruit quickly (Acerola, for example-- but not mangoes, unfortunately) there is enough time over 4 months in the summer for the plant to recover from the low light of winter, flower and ripen a crop of fruit over the summer.  For plants which take more than 6-8 weeks to grow fruit, there just isn't enough time in the summer to get the fruit ripened; pulling the plant indoors with unripe fruit on it will often cause the fruit to drop off or take a really long time to ripen (and then not taste good).  Only by providing many hours of intense light during the winter months do the plants actually flower and bear quality fruit with any sort of regularity. 

Without a greenhouse or artificial lights (or both) I don't think it is possible to ripen mangoes in the way you're hoping to at your latitude- I don't think it is possible for me here at 40 degrees North, and you're up at 55 degrees North with even less sun during the winter.
 
The good news is that your seedlings can certainly be grown the way you are growing them now until they get large enough to actually think about fruiting (at least 2 years from now) but to actually get them to fruit I think you'll need artificial light during the winter.  There are cheaper options than the LEDs, but they will all end up costing you more in the long run (and they don't work as well) so if you're serious about picking mangoes from your own trees, I'd suggest starting to save up for artificial lights.  Keep in mind that I may be a bit crazy; I have a 12'x15' room in my basement with 3200W of LED lighting for growing tropical fruit trees.  After 20 years of growing with other kinds of lights I also quit my software job and joined Black Dog LED when I saw just how much better the right LED lights grew plants, so maybe I'm more than just a bit crazy-- I want to be able to pick my own mangosteens!

Cheers,
   Kevin

24
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango growing first time, new member from UK
« on: September 08, 2014, 10:38:20 AM »
I would like to hear from anyone in these locals that are having success getting mango's to fruit. Keeping barely alive is more of the reports I have read. It appears cost prohibitive for the greenhouse , lighting and heating equipment cost to acquire , then electricity/ gas to keep it going in most locations . There is a level of devotion necessary that can take away from your day job. Anything is possible though, so go for it if you have the funds, time and desire.

We have growers in Northern California, NY and I think Ohio (north central U.S.) that are have some success with getting mangoes to fruit.  Their climates have some similarities to yours, with some being more severe with greater extremes....You should get their advice...maybe one or two will chime in here with their growing experiences....

It's going to be a tough go, for sure, but I wish you luck, amigo!

Gary

It can certainly be done; here is my 'Pickering' mango just before picking in February in Colorado:



The fruit were delicious.  Good lighting is crucial to keeping a mango happy, growing and ripening all winter; this was grown under 450W of Black Dog LED lights.

   Kevin

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Long term Air pot use?
« on: September 02, 2014, 03:46:43 PM »
I've got trees in 3 and 5 gallon size fabric pots that have been in fabric pots for over a decade.  They certainly can work long-term.

Air pruned or not, eventually the tree will have to be upcanned.

...  Or root-pruned-- you don't have to always give it a bigger pot; Bonsai trees can be hundreds of years old in small pots.

   Kevin

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